muff528

Uh... it was McCarthy who was after the commies... but he wanted to get the pinko homo's too. And DUDE... you so missed a few Japanese Internment Lynchings Then again.... seems that whole Salem thing was also the rage in England about the same time, and at a VASTLY larger scale. Well, MacArthur wanted to go get some commies, too. Yeah.. I am thinking that might have relieved some population pressures in China and the USSR and in America. Personally I am kinda glad we did not have to fight THAT particular war the way he wanted to. Different time, different balance of power.... who knows? But I do think MacArthur did misunderestimate China's committment to the defense of N Korea. But that's a different topic. Bush fan are we? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHy6IZcleic In all actuousness, I am a humongulous fan of the lexicologizings of Don King. GWB ain't got nuthin' on him .......I'm guessticulating that since King is a nonapoligetizaceous fan of Bush he must have taught W some good wordations to be used in his various unsunderizing speechations.

Uh... it was McCarthy who was after the commies... but he wanted to get the pinko homo's too. And DUDE... you so missed a few Japanese Internment Lynchings Then again.... seems that whole Salem thing was also the rage in England about the same time, and at a VASTLY larger scale. Well, MacArthur wanted to go get some commies, too. Yeah.. I am thinking that might have relieved some population pressures in China and the USSR and in America. Personally I am kinda glad we did not have to fight THAT particular war the way he wanted to. Different time, different balance of power.... who knows? But I do think MacArthur did misunderestimate China's committment to the defense of N Korea. But that's a different topic.

Uh... it was McCarthy who was after the commies... but he wanted to get the pinko homo's too. And DUDE... you so missed a few Japanese Internment Lynchings Then again.... seems that whole Salem thing was also the rage in England about the same time, and at a VASTLY larger scale. Well, MacArthur wanted to go get some commies, too.

After the skydiving conversation at the party do they all seem to smile and graciously excuse themselves and begin avoiding you at the party and gather into small groups that glance over at you and point?

Watch where you're going. Swivel your head both directions and check the zone below you. Hint: you're not even going close to the direction of the long axis of your body unless you're wearing a wingsuit or something.

OK, so I looked up the OK vs. WY case and read the "Syllabus" part which relates the convolutions the Court went through to explain why they, in agreement with WY, decided that they were obligated under the Art.III clause to hear that case. OK's position was that WY lacked standing to invoke "original jurisdiction". This was an Interstate Commerce issue. While reading that Syllabus I got the sense that the SC was really deciding the case before it was heard in their explanation of why they agreed with WY. IOW, It seems that the SC, by agreeing with WY that they have jurisdition and that they would hear the case, is also (in effect) deciding the case in favor of WY. It could have happened that they would have agreed they were obligated to hear the case and then decided the case in favor of OK but the wording in the Syllabus signalled the direction the Court was leaning. Also.... it's a little weird that the Court's "Construance" about what cases may or may not trigger "original jurisdiction" was written citing a case that did invoke their obligation. IOW, they are saying, IMO, that .... OK, this case invokes original jurisdiction but we're not going to go along with Art.III for every little problem you guys (the States) have with each other. ...work it out yourselves!

Yeah, with free-range humans it provides more "sport" for the gators. If they only wanted food they'd just opt for humanely killed farm-raised humans.

Well, wouldn't the recent pillaging of BP, without regard to due process, provide a precedent for anyone who might have a personal claim against a corp. for any environmental harm? I know that any payments may go directly from the corporation to the harmed but they would probably still need paid representation to help fill out the forms.

Hey if the chickens are getting salmonella... be sure to cook all your salmon thouroughly, to prevent an outbreak of chickenella. That sashimi could be tainted. All y'all are making me hungry.. I'm going over to Sam & Ella's Diner fer some lunch.

Yeah, I figured that. But the last couple of paragraphs allude to the possibility (probability?) that it'll never be revisited, at least from that direction. So the SC has met it's obligation as outlined in Art.III, skipped out on making any kind of substantive decision, and can now point back to this case in the future when anyone asks if they ever assert any original jurisdiction over a case as required suggested by the Constitution.

Thanks! Looks like that case was sidestepped for now at the "request" of then Solicitor General Kagan ("...the court's decision to deny the injunction may have deferred to some extent to U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan") to be heard at a some later date by the SC (which, of course, includes Justice Kagan.)

If I'm reading that correctly, it seems that if UK procedures are used then the number of US egg salmonella illnesses will drop to ~70,000 annually. Based on population shouldn't that number be more like ~3000 annually? (This particular outbreak is responsible for ~1400 illnesses before the recall.) I don't think you read it correctly. How should I have read it? Using vaccines the UK has 581 cases /60M population. US should have only 5x that number with 300M population unless we have other problems that the vaccinations will not fix. I can understand that getting to the same ratio would be more difficult just based on the vastly greater numbers but 70,000 vs. 3000? (Maybe cutting 142,000 by "more than half" means 3000.)

Well, that answers my original comment about wasting them. They're not being totally wasted after all.

I really am curious about this opinion by the SC. It seems that the SC is obligated to hear cases involving a state (under Art. III, sec.2, cl. 2) only if they decide they are obligated to do so. They decide whether or not there is "...another forum where there is jurisdiction over the named parties,...". If the Federal Government vs. a State does not meet their conditions then what type of case involving a State would possibly meet the conditions for the SC to deem themselves the proper jurisdiction and become obligated to hear it under Art.III? I realize it would be decided on a case-by-case basis but what would be a good example? They have already decided that State vs. State or State vs. City does not necessarily trigger their obligation. Any ideas?

I'm only referring to this particular half billion eggs. I think these eggs were already distributed to stores or warehouses. They could have been passed on to local shelters and aid groups with the understanding or instructions that they will need to be fully cooked. Of course, that brings up the possibility of liability and litigation and..... well, just toss them out and let the hungry find their own food.

Agreed. Though, surely you understand it is natural for one to want nothing to even be considered for loss in the first place. This is not a "chicken or the egg" scenario, but a solvable equation that can either be prevented or dealt with as a result. I would rather prevent it in the future. Absolutely, but we will never have incident-free industry whether it be eggs or oil. We just need to address problems as they occur and try to avert future incidents based on what we've learned. Yeah, I'd much rather eat salmonella-free eggs than have to kill them before I eat them.

I think we should look into the UK vaccine mentioned in kallend's post above. The chickens will still be laying eggs into their own shit but it will be salmonella-free shit.

There's no maybe about it. The chickens are sitting in their shit, that's how salmonella gets spread about. The producers aren't thinking about poisoning their customers, but they are thinking "a little bit of shit won't hurt anyone; they just need to cook it fully." Same with the cattle slaughter houses. I'm fortunate to be in San Francisco, where you can name your price for any sort of super ultra organic method for how your meat is produced. But when you watch the documentaries on how 95% of meat is produced, you wonder what most can do about it. As bad as Walmart has been for quality of goods, you generally do have alternative options. But the food industry is so concentrated in a few hands that nothing besides government regulation seems likely to make a difference. I really am not arguing against more govt control or regulation with respect to food quality (or humane treatment of the animals for that matter) and the plant responsible for this outbreak should be held meaningfully accountable. I am merely commenting on the unfathomable quantity of wasted food when this really doesn't have to be a total loss.

We're still talking about 500M eggs, cheap or not. Maybe producing them cheaper has something to do with the outbreak. Eggs are already cheap and will still be cheap at twice the price considering their food value.

300,000,000 people (+ a significant number of people in other countries) is a lot of people to feed every day. If the UK can effectively eliminate the problem of salmonella in eggs, so can the USA. All it needs is the will to do it. "In 1997, there were 14,771 reported cases in England and Wales of the most common type of the bacteria, a strain known as Salmonella Enteritidis PT4. Vaccine trials began that year, and the next year, egg producers began vaccinating in large numbers. The number of human illnesses has dropped almost every year since then. Last year, according to data from the Health Protection Agency of England and Wales, there were just 581 cases, a drop of 96 percent from 1997. “We have pretty much eliminated salmonella as a human problem in the U.K.,” said Amanda Cryer, director of the British Egg Information Service, an industry group. "The F.D.A. estimates that each year, 142,000 illnesses in the United States are caused by consuming eggs contaminated with the most common type of salmonella. It has said the new rules would cut that by more than half. People who eat bad eggs that have not been cooked thoroughly to kill the bacteria can get diarrhea and cramps. Rare cases can be fatal." If I'm reading that correctly, it seems that if UK procedures are used then the number of US egg salmonella illnesses will drop to ~70,000 annually. Based on population shouldn't that number be more like ~3000 annually? (This particular outbreak is responsible for ~1400 illnesses before the recall.)

OK, so I meant "factory". No matter how mechanized the process gets you still need a chicken to squat and lay an egg. Also, I was not talking about someone scarfing down a couple of "extra" eggs before bed. I was referring to people who might not have had anything else.

300,000,000 people (+ a significant number of people in other countries) is a lot of people to feed every day. If the UK can effectively eliminate the problem of salmonella in eggs, so can the USA. All it needs is the will to do it. OK.. so how did they "effectively" eliminate salmonella in eggs? I'd be more interested in learning the source of the infection and addressing that. I'm sure we'll get some idea soon and then take steps to minimize that risk. The food barons don't really want to poison their customers. ....unless they are in cahoots with big medicine.

300,000,000 people (+ a significant number of people in other countries) is a lot of people to feed every day. Until we come up with soylent green or elf crackers we need large scale farming. Our food supply is really incredibly safe considering the sheer volume of food produced, distributed and consumed daily. It probably could be safer but the fact that we just identified and recalled or halted the distribution of 500,000,000+ eggs (most of which might have been perfectly safe) in a matter of a couple of days is a feat in itself. And even if a few got through there was a warning to "properly" cook the eggs before eating them. They did not say "Remove the eggs to your trash bin immediately before your next meal". I wonder how many folks went to bed last night wishing they had a couple of "over-cooked" eggs to eat.

Just cook the dam things until they're done! What a waste of a half billion eggs.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!