Joellercoaster

I found the original dropzone.com thread, but the video seems to be gone: http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Gear_and_Rigging_F6/Skyhook_RSL_snag_on_door_handle,_at_pin_cover_flap_P3645850 -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

If only there was some way to find out a person's posting history and other behaviour on the forum, in order to figure out if they're likely to be a long-time jumper or not. (I remember this video too. Possibly from skydivingmovies.com? Might explain why I can't find it on youtube either, though most of its content got mined out and posted illegally at some point.) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Skydiving is known for its ability to ding people up. Obviously we all know about the twisted ankles, the busted femurs and even the folks getting knocked out in freefall. But it also presents a wide variety of ways to do weird and sort of amusing-in-retrospect things to oneself... I had a couple within 48 hours this month and I was wondering what else people had. 1. Deployed pilot chute... felt weirdness and looked up, reaching hands for risers. Suddenly *crunch*, instant fully formed canopy. My arms whipped downwards along with the rest of me, hyperextending both elbows. That one hurt for a few days afterwards but I kinda had to laugh. 2. Running from the bus to a waiting Dornier, around the tail... looked up just as the props kicked up a bunch of dust and gravel. I only had my visor open about an inch and somehow still managed to swallow a rock. Tell me stories! -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Do that. Skydiving can be as much fun as the most fun thing that there is... *learning* to skydive is something you only get to do once. If it's not fun, someone is doing it wrong. You're lucky in that you have choice of DZs where you are, definitely take advantage of it! -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I have jumped both, but only owned an Infinity (maybe a hundred jumps on it now) and you want informed criticism, so I'll talk about that. My only real complaint about it is that, after a Vector, the brake toggle and excess stowage is fiddly. It's not a big deal but it's annoying on back to backs when you're running to the packing shed... The AAD under the reserve flap I actually like a little less, though it's in practice not an issue - check reserve pin, access AAD at the same time. I'm all in favour of getting a gear check on flightline but they can just ask me if my AAD is on and the etiquette here (A license jumpers aside) does not generally involve opening other people's reserve flaps unasked. It's also not quite as comfortable as my Vector3 is but it's pretty nice. I'd choose it all day long over the Vortex2 (not that there is anything wrong with them as far as I know). -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Nice. As others have pointed out, the Kiss is VERY securely attached to your head (and the latches are fiddly, with gloves on). Aftermarket helmet cutaways are not going to work for it. Grellfab mount cutaway sounds really promising though. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I had forgotten how much amusement there was in this old thread. Thank you all. (My wife and I are still a Sabre2 vs Pilot couple. It gives us something to argue about in the bar, even if my Pilot is now semi-retired (and in desperate need of a reline) ) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I agree that no cutaway means no jump, but I am satisfied if the mount can be cut away. The Grellfab mounts can be cut away, and are additionally mounted on the chin, hopefully further out of the line of fire (although shit does indeed happen and a line could really end up anywhere). Is there video somewhere of the Grellfab cutaway in action? Or can someone post photos of it disassembled? Importantly, it shouldn't leave anything snaggable behind on the front of the helmet. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

That's good news. I contacted them a while ago and they said they weren't going to. If it happens, I'll buy it! -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

The Pulse fits into the "left hand" fork of John LeBlanc's two paths of canopy progression. As such, it is trimmed flat (and flies flat)... this is, all other things being equal, going to give it less flare power at the bottom than a steeper-trimmed canopy like the Sabre2. This is partly subjective (it's already flying flat and so has less distance to go towards level flight) and partly physics (more downward speed gives you more lift when you flare and turn it into forward speed). I would say that is is super easy to land, though. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I think this is a little unfair. I get that you are frustrated (and the bureaucratic tone of the average BPA committee meeting can indeed be frustrating). But problems are really to do with the fact that you are not a "recognised equipment manufacturer". The rules here are different to the rules in USA to start with because the countries' laws are different, not because the respective parachute associations are somehow more or less freedom-loving. For what it's worth, I hope the BPA pull their heads out of their arses and put some effort into figuring out how to let you jump it, and I think that at least half their reasons are bogus - but you probably need to address some of the other ones. Hang in there. PS there is at least one British canopy manufacturer - they just don't make sport mains. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I think this is very closely related to what I'm thinking about. Maybe the same. "You'll be fine" "Should be all right" "Just be careful" -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Actually, I wasn't compounding percentages at all - I made no calculations (though I understand how you might misread what I said in that way if you really wanted to), and as a scientifically trained person I'm entirely aware of how probabilities work. Once again, your ability to zero in on the trees allows you to conveniently miss the forest. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

They're also reported, if they happen at a BPA dropzone. There's a form and everything. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Yup. My packjobs looked awful for years. The two mals I've packed were after they stopped looking like that. RichyR, you will get better. Contrary to what people are saying about major technique changes (Reverse S-fold! Psycho Pack! Ninja Hotdog Pack!), what will gradually make your packjobs neater is a few hundred iterations of putting a canopy in a bag - gradually you acquire a touch. Knowing in your body, below the level of conscious thought, where to lean, what to press, how to control with the side of your knee (or whatever knacks you personally pick up) just comes from doing it a lot. Watching professionals doing it for a few hours can help but only so much. You can practise on mine for free -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Is "you'll probably be fine" the most dangerous sentence in skydiving? This is something that has been knocking around in my head for the last few years, listening to experienced skydivers (including myself) talking to newer jumpers (also including myself). It's a phrase that you (as a new jumper) will hear a few times in your career - usually from an up-jumper, almost never from an instructor, and you'll believe it. The questions vary - is a Mr Bill an OK idea? Can I come on this 20-way? What about a GoPro? Can I have a go on my buddy's Crossfire? But the answer is very often the same: "You'll probably be fine." The thing is, it's true. You probably will be fine. It's a big sky, and risk is all relative - say your terrible idea increases the chance of a bad accident from almost zero to five per cent. 19 times out of 20 you'll get away with it, and you're probably not going to make 20 Mr Bills. Say the chance of jumping a camera before you'r really ready increases the chance of Bad Things by only two per cent? You get the idea. You'll probably be fine. But somebody won't. The people saying it are not bad or even stupid - they remember getting away with mistakes and maybe being encouraged to take chances. They want you to have a good time, come on this jump with them that's maybe a little beyond you, because they're skydivers and are being inclusive. The thing is that there are a lot of skydivers, and a lot of skydiving goes on that is not regulated or watched hawk-like by a S&TA or a CCI (which is good). Those skydivers need to make good decisions. The numbers always even out - skydivers do enough sketchy things that someone will always end up paying, and the price can be very steep. The one young guy on the Katana 150 with a couple hundred jumps probably will be fine. But taken as a group, some of them are going to get broken, and it's because they were only "probably" going to be fine. The thing is, that guy will now come on here when he's got 500 jumps and tell other people how the doubters didn't understand his skills, and that they'll probably be fine too. (He doesn't understand his skills either yet - or more importantly, his luck - hopefully he'll figure that out later on and eventually turn into a good influence... it has happened, even on dropzone.com, but not often.) Probably isn't good enough. Relying on luck is not good enough. Be careful out there, and remember that the person giving you advice isn't the person taking the risk. It is, as they say, your ass, and not everyone is lucky all the time. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Years huh. In all those years you apparently haven't made enough jumps for this not to be an issue for you. Your actual problem here is that you don't (yet) know what you don't know. This is fine and completely normal. The problem people putting jump number limits have is that they don't know what you don't know. But before 200 jumps, they have a pretty damn good idea. FWIW, I have a reasonable number of jumps and I occasionally jump with a camera. I know my own game well enough, skydiving-wise, that I can tell it's a distraction. A small one, but real. Super talented though you may be, you do not have this sensitivity to your own state of mind while jumping yet. It will develop - and you will look back on this thread and go "ah ha". In the meantime, you're clearly going to do what you're going to do. You will probably not get hurt, so there will be a time where you continue to think we are all idiots. Maybe it will be another 500 jumps? Maybe less. One way or another, it won't last forever. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Likewise I think the BPA keeps accurate statistics about cutaways, which are always recorded (unlike USPA if I recall correctly?). -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Your poll has too many words in it. Also, it's reductio ad absurdum. "Those who jump. Are you OK with dying?" An AAD is not going to prevent you from dying. It's not even going to dramatically reduce your chances of dying. No-pulls are nowhere near the biggest risk skydivers face. FWIW, I have an AAD, I think everybody should, and I'm not OK with dying - I just think this thread is ridiculous. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Pretty much this. I think everyone should use an AAD, and the number of jumps I've done without one could be counted on two hands. And the cost argument is, frankly, bullshit. I don't even disagree with the increasing number of dropzones who make them mandatory - their house, their rules. But making AAD use mandatory across all skydiving everywhere feels like it's ignoring some edge cases. Having said that... I have increasing difficulty figuring out what those edge cases are nowadays. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Speaking as someone who finds even vanilla bigway uncomfortable, the idea of this scares the crap out of me. But I can't wait to see the video. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

+1. I just bought one after years of mostly Parasport, but having also experimented with Symbiosis and Nec. I haven't jumped it yet but have a few hours of tunnel wearing it, and I think it's the best suit I've ever owned. And by some distance too - the precision and power in the booties are noticeably better than all other suits I've owned. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Indeed. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Wait, we should change the students' deployment system because AFFIs want to wear snaggy camera mounts? -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?