elightle

Hi, Steve. You're gonna get a lot of opinions on this thread, I bet, but that's good. Don't take them all as the gospel though. Run them by an experienced 4-way coach. With that said, here's my two cents worth. You're correct in that you should drop a knee. Just don't twist your upper torso like they teach students. That technique can actually move you off heading when you finish your turn. The trick is to "turn in place." So if you can't afford a trip to the tunnel, do 2-way no contact drills with another experienced jumper or coach. Exit a 2-way star but when you break to a no contact star, bring both hands in front of your chin and fly that way for a while. You'll notice that you can fly pretty well this way. Of course, you don't have to keep your hands in front of your chin but try not to stretch your arms out to the sides. Keep your elbows slightly forward, knees slightly bent, and hips relaxed. (Sorry for all the details but I'm a technical writer). Next, you and your partner take turns doing 360's using only your legs. Keep those hands and elbows where they are. Don't worry about the speed of your turns. To stop the turn, of course, drop the other knee. (I am sure you know that to turn right you drop the left knee, and vice versa for a left turn.) On another jump, allow yourself to use your elbows to help start and stop your turns. (I am sure you know that to turn right you drop the left knee and right elbow, and vice versa for a left turn.) Again, sorry for the details but I think amidst all the coaching and training camps we also need literature with details. Blues! Ed Lightle

Hi, Nico. If one person can't control fall rate and do controlled turns, then the team can't practice. Before the team can move on, insist that the low timers get some coaching, preferably by somebody experienced in 4-way. 2-way no contact drills are the best way to bring them up to snuff. On the first jump, fly a no contact star and do nothing else but fall. Maintain a good fall rate. On another jump, have them do turns in front of you, again without taking grips. On yet another jump, drop down just a few feet and let them adjust. Pop back up 5 feet and let them adjust. On other jumps, do no contact 360's and Compressed Accordions but don't take grips. Do all of these drills without grips. It's worth taking 6 to 10 jumps now to bring your teammates up to snuff. If they don't grasp it after that, then you have to make a decision about the team. Hope this helps! Ed Lightle

Dave, I agree 100%. I am not a USPA rated coach but I've been around the sport and team stuff a while. I recently did some coaching jumps with a new jumper who agreed to pay for my slot and the video slot too. He was very pleased with the instruction and got some good video to take home too! Blues, Ed Lightle

Hi. I'm doing the same thing with some newbies here in Ohio, USA! I'm tired of begging to jump with the so-called skygods. I'll train my own people. Maybe we can't afford trips to the wind tunnel but we sure as hell are going to learn how to stop, fly no contact, and NEVER fumble for grips. Good luck to you guys! Ed Lightle

How right you are, Rehmwa. I wasn't thinking. Good stuff for me to add to my bag of tricks but too much to throw at beginners. We'll just focus on having fun and learning to fall straight down. Blues!

Thanks, Foggy! Ed

Thanks! I'll check it out. Keep up the good work with coaching! Ed

Dude! Thanks. This wealth of information shows that you have been exposed to some pretty good coaching. I have honestly never thought about flying with the knees a little closer together. Maybe I've watched too much video of the big guys trying to stay with big formations. I will say this: I've seen myself on video making final approaches on big-ways and my knees were fairly close together. Maybe I was doing this subconsciously to maintain fall rate and momentum until I got to my slot. Hmmm. Makes sense and now (thanks to you) I have some good information to pass on to the beginners team I am putting together at my home DZ. Rock on! Skydive hard too! Ed

Hi. I must admit I am unfamiliar with what USPA coaches teach their students. But it seems that a lot of newer jumpers are not adequately prepared for 4-way. That is one reason I am writing an article on drills that can help bridge this gap. Also, I am putting together a beginners team at my home DZ this season so my team will learn RW the correct way from the ground up. If you would, point me to the material in the SIM or whatever that explains what skills USPA coaches are supposed to teach. Blues! Ed Lightle

Hi, Rehmwa. This question is related to flying mantis with knees closer together. Sounds interesting. What is the advantage? Thanks, - Ed -

Everybody, The intro team is pretty much formed. I was surprised at the response. If anything changes, I will come back here and reactivate the thread. Thanks for all your inquiries. Blue Skies to All! Ed

Scott, I'm glad (and jealous!) to hear that you did 4-way with Danny Paige. Sounds like you'll be ready for a team next year. The way things are going I might have to wait til then too. Only one person besides you has shown interest, and that person won't be available til late May. Oh well, at least I'm recruiting belly flyers for Greene County, huh. Take care and stay safe, Ed Lightle

Forgot the file... - Ed -

Front float is typically called the Point, and rear float the Tail. Squeak is correct about the positions being rotated for some exits. Attached is an article I wrote last year for Parachutist magazine about 4-way techniques. It includes a brief explanation of the responsibilities of each position. Hope this helps! Ed Lightle

Sounds like you'll be ahead of the game with all the expert coaching from the GT competitors. Georgia has a pretty strong 4-way league. If Mr. Pink competes this season, tell Glen Hauenstein that Ed Lightle says hi and thanks (he'll know why). See ya later in the season... - Ed -

Thanks for posting this, Eric. - Ed -

Hi, Scott. We'd love to have you. Things are looking kind of slim this season for my "intro" team but jumping hasn't started yet. If that doesn't work out, I might get on a AA team in Indiana (if things work out) - practice one weekend a month and challenge ourselves at the meets; maybe Nationals. BTW, sometime this Spring I should have an article in Parachutist about 2-way drills as a way to prepare yourself for 4-way. Have a Great Season! Ed Lightle

Dave, Just wanted to thank you for permission to use your info on 2-way drills in an article. Have a Great Season! Ed

Thanks, Dom. The Dropzone.com forums are a great place to share information and try to keep up with all you 4-way gurus . I promise to write a great article. BTW, look for my article on fine-tuning FS skills in the April issue. Blues, - Ed -

Hi, Dave. Everybody in this thread has given excellent advice to RedDevil1102 about 2-way drills. Would it be okay with you if I use the information you provided in an article for Parachutist? I realize that the information we provide in these forums is pretty much public knowledge once we hit "Post Reply," but, ethically, it is a good idea to ask for permission to use the information in a piece of journalism. Thanks in advance, Ed Lightle D-5966 Old Timer But Still 4-Way Crazy

Dom, Me, again. I was wondering if I could use your advice about 2-way no contact stop drills in an article for Parachutist. It seems that the more I write the more I want to make it easier for newer jumpers to understand what's going on. Keep grabbin' ASS! Ed Lightle

Hi, Dom. Yes, they should definitely do the 2-way no-contact start and stop drills in addition to altitude adjustment drills. I plan on doing some myself as soon as it warms up here in Cold Country (Ohio). Basic 4-way is all about learning to move quickly and decisively to your next position with the added ability to stop on a dime. There's nothing more exhiliarating than cranking a fast 360 and knowing that as you stop you're in perfect position to take grips or be gripped. It doesn't get any better than that! Blues and all that stuff... Ed Lightle

Definitely start with 2-way drills but make them good ones. One jumper should be a coach or an experienced jumper. Here are a couple good drills. Altitude Adjustment - the coach pops up 5 feet or so and you float up and match his fall rate. He sinks 5 feet or so and you sink and match his fall rate. Quarter Turns - from a face-to-face 2-way (star) the coach sits still and you present one side of your body (arm and leg) to his hands. Next, present your legs to the coach's hands (i.e., he cats on you). Next, present the other side of your body to the coach's hands. Last in the rotation, come back to the face-to-face 2-way (star). The coach should probably do the drill first so you can see the right way to do it. The upshot is that you will learn to maintain position while making 90-degree turns. Practice the above drills 3 or 4 times apiece. Also, attached is a PDF of an article I wrote for Parachutist for new 4-way teams. Welcome to 4-Way! Ed Lightle

I enjoyed the video. Vita rocks! Blues to All! - Ed -

The term "mega" is deceiving. It just means the bootie extends all the way from knee to toe and gives you more surface area to slice into the air. "Normal" booties are not much bootie at all. They typically start below the knee and extend to the toe. They help with forward movement but don't do much more than straight legs when it comes to turns. I don't know about vents and all that unless you want to slow your fall rate. You can always cover the vents if they float you or get in your way otherwise. Enjoy the Tony Suit! Blues! Ed Lightle