mikkey

Look, I do not know you, so my comments are probably un-informed, but I think a "semi" elliptical midrange 9-cell like the Safire 2 might have been better for you. I assume from your post that you fly conservatively, so why buy a canopy like the Stiletto if you dont do high performance maneuvers? Your problem is that IF you make a mistake at landing or have a bad body position at opening the reaction from the Stiletto will be much more unforegiving - why take the risk? You were looking for better glide then the Silhouette - why didn't you try out the Sabre 2 or Safire first? They both would probably give you exactly what you were looking for at much less risk..... just my 2 Cents Anyway, good luck and stay save. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

No, just the 8 nails in my ankle and the steel plate and 12 screws in my leg... 2 operations later.... Look, you should give the canopy a try if it is in good condition and the winds moderate. You can probably get it into a modern student rig with ripcord and springloaded PC, and then you will have a normal cut-away system and square reserve. Talk to a rigger. They are fun to try, they turn on a dime and a very different experience compared to a modern canopy. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

"With old 2 shot capewells a cutaway was out of the question" Not at all, I saw plenty of cut aways 25 years ago I did one myself with 1 1/2 shot Capewells and chest mounted reserve without PC at around 1000 feet and had to hand feed the reserve lying on my back. Takes a little time so... was in a inflated reserve for 3 seceonds before hitting ground --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

First jumped: T-10 First owned: C-9 (7 TU) Second: Competition Para Commander Third: Strato Star (5 cell) --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The "Papillion" was the french version of the Para Commander. Actually, I think it is probably the "original". These type of rounds were called "Lemoigne" (spelling?) parachutes. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think named after a French who invented the principle. The principle is to "pull down" the centre of the round parachute with a centre line to create more "pressure" and add a range of small openings in the panels. The effect is better glide, quicker turns. These parachutes were actually not even perfectly "round". Probably the first step towards the principle of flying "wings" instead of "dropping" in a silk parachute. The "Papillion" was very popular in Europe and there was a Czech version of the lemoigne type and a Russian version (think it was called UT8 or something like that, - these had a very peculiar pilot chute system, 2 pilot chutes where the spring was "inflating" "side-ways" like opening an umbrella, instead of "increasing" length - if you know what I mean). The american versions were the Para Commander and the Competition Para Commander (CPC). I jumped a CPC arund 1980 and loved it. I think this Papillion was made under license in the US as a competitor to the Para / CPC in the US market. All these were quite similar, with the CPC the fastest (but also most tricky openings). The mini-system was quite popular. It was still with reserve chest mounted. I had a "mini" at the time, packing the CPC and later the 5-cell Strato Star. Look at the picture to the left - thats me with the sytem on. They were smaller and more compact then the other containers on the market. But still designed for spring loaded PC and ripcord, with large rubber strings opening the container. There a lot of people that still love these parachutes and do some jumps in them from time to time. You probably can sell the system if it is still in good condition. Let a rigger check it out. Hope this helps. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

"IMO a Horse-Shoe is a the worst mal out there...there is often little you can do to reduce it once it's started, and your remaining options are less than appealing. " ------------------------------------------------------------ Yea, mental lapse here - was including horse shoe in my own mind, and it is a quite a different mal type. On the other hand, I could imagine that people who pull/deploy will not always know if the high speed mal they are experiencing is a "in tow" or a horse shoe. Now - correct me if I am wrong - the consensus on horse shoe mals is that you should cut away first (?). And here is the dilemma, if you say, this mal I will cut-away, and this I won't - the risk is that in the stress situation of a high speed mal, you might do the wrong thing - even if you are an experienced jumper. I know of incidents where very experienced people died deploying reserves into malfunctioning mains above their heads and died. I think it is an advantage to have only "one" emergency procedure that is stored in your muscle memory. If you do a lot of thinking/evaluating at high speed you might just run out of time. I think I stick with my procedure of if I deployed the PC - I'll go for both handles and cut first. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Hmmm, all interesting points, but it goes very much against what I have been taught over many years. In regard to stats, maybe I am wrong, but isn't main/reserve entanglement (without cutaway first) one of the most common fatality reasons? I just do not know how many of these were PC in tow. Assume there is no data available? PC in tow is probably the worst situation I can imagine. Really a worry that people are so divided on the issue how to react. Maybe some of the "bodies" really should do more research on the issue? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

If you have a PC out - the risk of getting a dual deployment with entanglement by just going for silver (or the reserve pilot entangling in main PC) is far greater then having a reserve mal. If you have anything "out" - do a cut away first if you have time. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Totally agree, it is probably your body position. I had an issue with a slight right hand dive after openeing on my canopy. Found out that this was caused by leaving my right arm slightly "out" after deploying PC. Corrected this by bringing both hands up in front of my eyes after "dump" to ensure symetrical position. Problem solved. If you are dipping your shoulder it could be enough to get that bag spinning.... so try to bring you hands forward and ensure you are in a box. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I am a believer in always doing a cut-away first if you have touched/deployed the PC - and if in doubt cut-away first. I had a PC in tow many years ago (wrapped around container I think) and as I went for the cut-away handle and started pulling the main started to deploy (probably because of changed body position) - it was too late to stop the process - so I continued the cut away and deployed reserve. If I had gone for silver in that situation, I probably would have ended up wth an entangled main and reserve - and kissed my arse good buy. So if you "touched" nothing (i.e. cant find handle/hacky) or cant pull it out of pouch etc. - go for silver. If you have anything in the air, cut away first. Entanglement is too big a risk. Just my 2 Cents. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Holy moses. Sounds nearly impossible. How on earth did you manage 43 jumps in one day?? If my calculator does not fool me and if you had say 12 hours to jump in, this would mean one jump every 16.7 minutes (!?) - non stop all day including packing, toilet and food break. How do you do that if you also need the plane to get to altitude ? If these guys were doing 4-way training, I would assume they were going for altitude, so which plane did you use and how many packers and how many rigs per person??? Sounds just so impossible. Please tell us more. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Shouldn't this be posted in the Safety & Training forum? I think lately there have been too many "small" incidents which should have been posted in the other forum. Not that they are not interesting and you can learn from them (like this one) - they should probably just be posted in the other forum. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The Safire 2 is exactly what I was promised by the people who recommended it to me. It fits my desire to have a "middle of the road" canopy between docile and high performance. I am loading my 189 at around 1.2 . Actually, you can fly it radically even at this loading, but if you just want a nice stable ride down and an easy landing, well it is your choice. The openings are so reassuring. You deploy the PC, look up and see the middle cells inflated really quick and then a nice sequential inflation of the remaining cells. It is very soft but not too soft. About 500 feet for me and you know it will open (or not)if you just look up. The toggle pressure is fine and what I like is the way the canopy reacts when you want to recover from a stall or a hard turn/spiral. It is easy and very "soft" - no wild movements or "jerking". Landings are easy. I am not a fan of hook turns so I just go straight in at full speed and have great landings every time. Either a straight stand up, slow run (low wind) or a minor swoop with a full flare at the end. So for a first canopy at a loading of around 1 or a nice midrange canopy from 1.2 - 1.5 it suits your average week-end fun jumper perfectly.

I checked out your DZ web site - Derek: you don't look like the nutty professor after all Your DZ looks nice, must be amazing views skydiving in the Rockies...... At some stage I want to do a skydiving trip to the US, i.e. CA as that is nearest to OZ, but the views in Colorado would probably justify a side trip --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

"-20 C!!!!! Are you nuts! That is -4 F. " I see you live in Colorado - you must have these type of temperatures in winter? My coldest ever was a jump in winter in Scandinavia from 14 K. Ground temperature was - 10 C and temperature at exit - 40 C. That is cold (did wear balaclava and thermal clothing) You don't do it too often once you tried. You are right in regard to this issue is low probability. So why are you playing in the freezer --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I think you need to take the "wind chill factor" into account. The speed at which the cold wind hits you/your equipment does make a big difference. When I lived and jumped in Northern Europe in the 80's, I would in winter regulary land with a completely frozen moustache (it was the 80's after all ), especially when humidity was high and clouds around. Another example, the quickest way to cool a bottle of wine/champagne is to wrap it into a piece of wet news paper and hold it out of the window while you are driving your car. I know I am silly, but it actually works So if your 3-ring is wet and you fall at say, 130 MPH at - 20 Celsius (don't know what that is in Fahrenheit) for say 50 seconds, then I could imagine the loop could freeze "stiff". --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

This must mean don't jump with wet gear full stop. In many cases the temperature at altitude will be below freezing and if the loop is wet it could easily freeze in freefall. Am I right? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I think the money issue is a real issue in skydiving and does influence safety. I am on my third skydiving "career" - started back in 1978, had a 6 year break in the 80's and stopped again in 1992 and now taken it up again after an 11 year break. When I first started I was a poor student, the second time around my finances were not to good for other reasons. I used crap equipment, I could not do the type of jumping activity I wanted etc. and both "careers" were interupted after mal's with injury and the equipment was both times "involved". Both times I gave it away because of frustration of not having up to date equipment, not being able to jump when I wanted, and having to compromise on safety. It just took the fun away. This time around I am financially secure and was able to spend the money to have a quick re-training with good instructors. I went straight out to buy a new rig, new reserve, new main and a new cypres. I've got a decent helmet and a pro-dytter. I did not have to compromise on anything - and guess what - I am having so much more fun, I feel more confident/safe because I know I use the best equipment available and don't worry all the time if I should pay a bill or jump next week-end. It is a totally new ball game for me. I am not saying that people who can't afford the latest and best equipment should not skydive or do not have fun skydiving, but I think that people who say they can not "afford" equipment like a Cypres maybe should create a plan and save some money first until they can afford to do in a safe way. From my own experience I think it makes a hell of a difference how I feel this time around and the amount of enjoyment I get from the sport. Just my 2 Cents. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Finally got my new custom made Talon 3 rig today. All exited..... These are made by "Parachute Australia" - my wife is going to be angry when I'll take it to bed with me tonight --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Interesting post skycat - even if we are getting somewhat side tracked by the surfing and "women" posts... I have jumped on 2 continents and 10 DZ's and find that you always find some politics. I found there are 2 type of politics in skydiving circles: 1) At the "club" non-commercial small DZ there tend to be a clique of volunteers. They put a lot of work into it and are very protective of their "patch" - very similar what you find in all types of clubs and associations. 2) At the commercial DZ it is a little different. The regulars and staff have a lot of self-interest. They are either professional skydivers or part timers financing their own jumping activities by being instructors or Tandem Masters etc. Money is involved and as soon as self-interest and money is involved - politics will come into it. Certain people look after each other, some people are out-siders etc. Just the way things are. You will find that this is more or less true for most DZ's - but I still think that the skydiving community is much better and more fun then many others. And if you like me are a "fun jumper" who rolls up to a DZ once in a while, pays for a few jumps, has a beer and is not interested to be involved day-to-day - well it really does not bother me..... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The advantage of mechanical alti's is that they have a basically very simple design - and I think that is an advantage for this crucial piece of equipment. I bought my alti around 1980, I stopped jumping in 1991 and when I resumed 11 years later, I dug the old alti out of a cupboard, gave it to a pilot to check during a lift and it worked like a treat. So my vote goes to mechanical alti's --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I jumped round chutes from 1978 to 1980 (T-10, C-9 and Para Commander) - at that time you had to have 115 jumps before going square where I was living at the time (Scandinavia) and due to often windy weather it took some time to get to this jump number. My recollection is that I saw less cut away's then what I would see now at an average DZ. That does not mean there were fewer mal-functions. Let me explain: 1) Rounds can take more damage. I saw people landing rounds safely with line burns, missing sections and even minor line overs ("Mae West's"). 2) People who jumped rounds, normally had chest mounted reserves (often without pilot chute) which you could deploy as an additional chute if you had a damaged or partial inflated main (these things don't spin that easy). Para Commanders were slightly different but still not as violent as a modern squares. 3) Line twists were common, but would normally not require cut away, rounds would not spin like modern square. If you had line twists you just had to do a lot of kicking. The equipment in general was however not as good as today, from deployment systems, to releases (ever tried a cut-away with Capewells?), to AAD's (the good old KAP's had a tendency to fire when you were practising track - ). So - all in all a very different thing - you can not really compare. We definitely had a few bruises and broken bones from hard landings - and we had lot of off-DZ landings (including trees and picking people off power lines) - but you would not as easily be killed making a bad landing decision like you see today. On the other hand you had people with no-pulls waiting for their spring loaded pilot chute to come out of the burble on their back, we had people killed due to low or no reserve pulls due to the equipment used etc. So it was not more safe - it was just different. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

That looks like a pretty spot to land

I see you are in WA. Try to contact Totalcontrol they are a big dealer in Perth. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Thanks for sharing. I am just a little concerned about your decision to land on your behind (being concerned about the fare characteristics of the reserve). I would not recommend this - if you had a bad flare you probably could have broken your back. In this situation I would recommend a PLF.