Ron

I didn't vote, but getting a canopy wet can change the trim of the lines, stitching, and binding tape. Not that most would notice, but it can't be GOOD to do that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What hangar? There is no hangar that he can hide in. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Tell that to the people on here How about not having to replace bands? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah, you notice its the low timers that ay they will try to catch them low? I think they saw Dropzone to many times But I can think of 2 people I would chase till impact. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Simple, just tell them you did everything you could. 1. It would be true. 2. They would not know better. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A,B,D,E,F,H,J,K,L,N,O,P,Q all work well. Any round formation will work. Formations can be seen here: http://www.omniskore.com/divepool/IPC/4-way_randoms.htm Blocks 3,5,6,7,9,11,12,14,15,16,17 will work also. You can get visuals of those here: http://www.omniskore.com/divepool/IPC/4-way_blocks.htm Your BEST bet is to get some 4way guys and let them show it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK but lets point out afew more issues. OK 3 seconds/ 500 feet gone. Thats not from Terminal...thats from starting at zero....Once you are at Terminal you go through 1,000 feet about every 6 seconds while stable. He will not be stable. So 3,500 feet = 21 seconds. Plus you have to take 3 seconds out for reserve deployment...So 18 seconds MAX. You already gave 3 seconds up to see the problem.... So 15 seconds. In 15 seconds you would have to get to them, grab them, deploy them, and save your own life. Thats 1,500 feet or 9 seconds it took for you to reach him. If you had started at 3500 feet (21 seconds) and managed to do the same great swoop...You would be at 2 grand still 5 feet away. He would also not be stable. (Nice swoop however) Lets assume you could grab him (What 3 seconds?) find the reserve and pull it another 3 seconds....And then deploy your own reserve...3 more seconds. If everything went GREAT...You would have pulled your reserve at 500 feet...3 seconds till impact. Please, try it this weekend. Have a buddy flip on his back out the door and go after him. Mark your start altitude and your finish altitude. And please let us know. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It has nothing to do with the reserve.... It has to do with the amount of time it will take you to: 1. See a problem. 2. Start moving in the correct direction. 3. Catch them while they are spinning out of control. 4. Find and pull a canopy for them. 5. Save your own life. It took longer for me to type that than you have from two grand. You say your reserve will open in 400 feet right? OK so you have to pull it at around 500 to start it correct? 2,000 feet = 12 seconds WHILE STABLE...A knocked out person WILL NOT be stable and will be dropping faster than normal. But hey, I am a generous guy so I'll give you 12 seconds. You really think you can find them, get to them, catch them, pull them out, and pull yourself out in 9 seconds? (Remember you need the last 3 seconds to pull and deploy lest you land a container only). I don't think most experienced AFF "I's" could do it in 9 seconds. Not a slam on you, but think about it. So don't do warp nine. BTW you don't want to try and even emergency swoop anyone at warp nine...If you miss you blew your one shot. Really try it and let the group know how many thousands of feet it took. You can even let the guy fly stable on his back if you want. If you do it in less than 12 seconds...I think you are VERY good and should get your AFF. But like I said I have a few folks I would follow to the dirt. (In truth I would follow till my CYPRES yanked me out...Except right now when its off getting checked). But I really think you are under estimating the amount of time it will take to get there, and perform all the tasks you need to do. Any AFF rated folks wanna tell a story about a spinner that they had to catch and tell us how long it took? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bill, All I can really say is thanks. You are a leader in the sport, and I looked up to you. I enjoyed your stories, and I appreciated your exploits. Blue Skies, Ron Him, Him....... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Noble...but foolish. I see you don't have an AFF rating. Try this exercise: Have a buddy go out at altitude and go limp...Let him just fall. See if you can catch him....If you do catch him (You very well might) act like you are deploying him. Use a piece of PVC cut to about the size of a hacky, tied with a pull up cord to his lateral webbing. If you do get to him, and manage to pull him out, then simulate a reserve pull for yourself. Once that is all done look at your altimeter. If it took less than 2 thousand feet (12 seconds)...You really are very good. I would bet you can't do it....I don't know many that could, and infact I don't think I could do it either. Add in that you have not practiced this trick, and that you can't do things well that are not practiced. Like I said noble....But try this and let us know how it went. That being said.....There are a few I would chase till blood filled my goggles "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And I know jumpers that quit after 40 jumps. when you try to color everthing to fit into a skydivers world....You are trying to hard. Nope....But who said I was bored? I said skydives can be boring. I would not make a solo jump if you paid for it. I do however spend plenty to do 4way. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And this is one of the problems. We now have several people who now "know" how to remove a helmet in case of an emergency. And they will try it without training, and possibly really screw up the situation. I have yet to EVER be on a DZ that didn't have some type of medical trained person on it. The best bet? 1. Know who the really trained people are, and get them. 2. Have the DZ staff attend first responder training. 3. When in doubt....If you are not trained, don't do anything. Edit to add....You folks really want to learn how to respond in an emergency?...Take a class. Don't read stuff on here and assume you know what to do. Even if the advice is good....You may not be able to perform it with out PRACTICE and TRAINING. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If panic takes over....A thing beeping at them will not make them do anything different. I had a studnet spiral in under a line over....He was taught what to do, and he said he could hear me over the radio telling him to cut away.... He told me that he heard me, and even answered me...But could not do it. And to many jumpers are device dependent..... I guy told me just the other day that could not jump since his AUDIBLE was dead. 300 jumps and he had a visual. Sad. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Republican or Democrate has NOTHING to do with this. I was were you are once...I NEVER thought a person could quit. 3300 jumps, 11 years, and more bodies than I care to count later.....Things change. You can't see it...I could not either then. Seperate politics for skydiving...When you quit looking at EVERTHING and trying to relate it to skydiving...THEN you really are a skydiver. It will happen. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A leader leading the country. Vote Kerry...Lets have a war crimes President!!!! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Please read the bold. All of the sports you mentioned you don't NEED to burn fuel or have motorized vehicals. You can ski or skate on natural lakes that are frozen. You don't NEED to burn fuel...It makes it easier, but you don't NEED to. The Olympics are about HUMAN effort, not who can tune an engine better. Notice there are no motorized sports in right now? You can't skydive without an aircraft. This may chance over time, but skydiving is not a good spectator sport anyway. So even if they remmove the stigma of NEEDING an aircraft...Don't expect skydiving to suddenly become popular. Remember we could not keep skydiving in the Xgames. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes...ANYTHING. Take SCUBA diving. If you are a commercial diver you don't tend to go diving for fun. When I started SCUBA diving, I went almost everyday...Now 6 years later I don't go diving but once every year it seems. Same thing happens skydiving. You are new, everything is cool....Enjoy that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Name an Oylimpic sport where you have to spend fossil fuel. Besides most whuffos could not care about skydiving. It does not look difficult and they can not relate to it at all. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Anything gets boring if you do it enough....ANYTHING "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Really? read it again. nice try Bill, but it was a clear personal attack...But only I get warned when I do the same? Bias Bill, flat out bias. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You don't tend to kill the person to get the liver...They are dying anyway. Thats the difference. I agree. again, I agree. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And if a Democrat flat out lies its OK, but if a Republican does the same thing its a call to arms. Moveon.org is OK. SBVFT is not. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You are really going to have to explain why THEY can attack a group, and I can't... Why did I get warned and they didn't? All of that is NOT a personal attack? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

PK has the best answer....Really good. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Who said I think they should not be allowed? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334