rgoper

probably why it was scheduled for that weekend. --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

so it is your assumption that all beginners will be flying elipitical canopies? would you agree that in the event of an off DZ landing in a tight landing area you would rather have your student under a lightly loaded Triathlon, Manta than a crossfire, or a Hornet, Heatwave,Cobalt? another aspect that must be considered if a student starts out on a "lightly loaded elipitical" at .08:1:1, then progress into an elipitical with a wing of 1:2:1, then maybe a 1:5:1, how is starting them out at a light wing load, then progressing them to a higher wing going to be helpful to the student? you said start them out with what they'll be flying anyway, so should we start them out on an elipitical at a 1:2:1? i don't buy it. --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

what's wrond with the "canopy progression" theory? i've seen jumpers get out of the sport for a while, have new gear when they come back, downsized 15-20^ ft. of canopy and flying a semi-elipitical at that, and the landings are not pretty, some of them have been hideous. in my opinion you want your student on a very conservative, docile and very forgiving canopy. i trained on Sabres, got my own rig and flew Triathlons, Hornet, Cobalt and now a Heatwave. so i went from a 9 cell as a student, 7 cell to start out with, then a 9 cell Hornet (best canopy i ever owned) now the Heatwave. i also demoed a ton of canopies during all of these transitions. so it is my belief that we need to start them out on a square ram air, then progress to a semi-elipitical, then a elipitical, then a comp model. just my thoughts on the matter. enough people get seriously injured, or even killed on conservative squares early on in their training, an elipitical is out of the question. IMHO --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

no problem. i can tell you this, if my wife "stepped out" on me.... "Cha-Chink!" --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

i know you just didn't! it's not that they're easier to teach, it's about caring about our new sky divers. i'm telling ya, i remember one sky diver who did the 3 tandem requirement, got half way through her AFP program, on a landing one day, (Sabre, loaded at 0.9:1:1) she broke her ankle. she was out of the sport for months. when she came back, she did 13 or so tandems until the jump master was satisfied she could flare, and land without injury. the majority of students do not go on to be avid sky divers for a multitude of reasons. i would challenge any student to fly my canopy safely, each and every time. progressive and comprehensive canopy flight (including sizes, and planforms) should be just like the theory of tandem/afp progression. ya gotta crawl before you can walk. and if it takes longer to progress, and downsize, or fly an elipitical canopy, well we all have more time than money i'm sure. safety first. --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

very married, 18 years now, three children: 23-20-18. managamous to boot. but, this is not my first marraige. --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

Hook: this goes back to providing correct information, good post. we both know of a sky diver that wouldn't listen and payed the price with his life under a regular Sabre. so anything above that performance level is definitely lethal. my outlook on training jumps with tandem progression is the same as yours, hopefully it'll catch on, hopefully sooner than later. take care bro.... --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

i'll agree completely with this statement. but i'm sure you'll agree it is our responseability as "upjumpers" coaches, AFF, TDM1, instructors etc...to "provide correct information, all of the time" this is a big responseability one which we must at least meet, or exceed when conveying information to the new generation of sky divers. what kept everybody alive 20 years, even 10 years ago has evolved, we must "stay on the learning curve" but in doing so, not forgetting the "information age" either. after all, this may be the one thing that will "save that ass" in our ever increasing litigious society. let's face it, people who sky dive like them selves, we all have egos, most "Type A" personalities, hopeless adrenaline junkies, or we wouldn't defy death like we do in a sport that we all know is not safe. so it's up to each of us to watch each others back in every aspect of our sport. --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

we've covered a lot of ground in this post string. what i know about, i have spoken about, i try to stay away from speculation. Atair as a whole is a good company, from my experience. Dan Preston has a position with this company and of course it is his job to concieve ideas, retrieve feedback, etc...etc...has he said some things that need explaining, i think so, does he have some unanswered questions here? i think so, well i think we'll all agree that all of us here in the forums have done this same thing on one or more occasions. but remember, Dan also has the responseability to the company he works for, so he has to be very careful in how he responds, and what he says, he knows this, hell, we all do. now, i will speak on something that i know about that Dan does do that impresses me, he does take care of his customers. whether you like Atair's products (or Dan for that matter) or comments that have/and or have not been made, Dan does take care of his customers. i told him personally i thought his Cobalt 170^2 was a "real piece" (not my exact words) he listened. he agreed to do whatever it took to make me happy with my canopy situation. he even offered to do the H-mod for free to my existing canopy, instead we decided to build me the competition Cobalt 170^2, with the same custom colors as the one they built for me already has. i am satisfied with this situation. now, don't get me wrong, if this canopy doesn't perform any better i'll certainly advise, but i'm optomistic! i think it's a good idea for somebody to build a larger canopy that is a high performance canopy to keep all of our "newbies" from getting on the "downsizing wagon" when things are cool, i say they're cool, when they're not, ya'll know i'll advise that as well. what Dan has said, or done in the past can be worked out, but he does take care of his customers, that says a lot about the man, and the company he represents. i got no ass to kiss, i got no alliance with a manufacturer, i just tell it like it is. by the way, thanks for responding today Dan... --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

AggieDave: you make it back? lets see some jpegs dude! --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

Mike: two words: "Cha-Chink" if you don't do it now, you'll just go through this again. peace... --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

goodness gracious, 100 jump wonders! misty water cooler memories! thank god they're memories! i wouldn't want to go through all that a second time! --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

that's the reason the original poster needs to "Cha-Chink" now. it ain't worth it. --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

don't forget the strap, or 20' 1" logging chain! have fun........ --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

your not like one of those "urine freaks" are you? YICH! --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

step away from the keyboard slowly...with your hands in the air, now take three steps to the left, now walk backwards towards my voice......... --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

dude, we've had over 3" of rain today and it's still coming, my pond which covers 3 surface acres is flowing into the creek which runs through the place (nails creek, it dumps into sommerville lake) but even the creek is out of the banks. if i tried to go muddin' today, i'm afraid big red would become bouyant! don't want that! have fun though, be careful. --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

AggieDave: if you get stuck, call me, i'll bring big red and pull you out! J/K big red is a 1977 3/4 ton 4X4 with a 350 CID 400 auto trans with spicer running gear, i have 36" super swampers on her, she's ugly, but she loves mud and water! i don't mind going muddin' but washing it all off later! YICK! --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

exactly! so don't waste one day of it being unhappy. this "canopy" isn't flying right: "Cha-Chink" get on with your life my brother. life is too short, every day should be as good as it can be. i've been where you are, now i'm just an old man, but i can offer you experienced advice. good luck. --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

first, this is wasted emotion, which equates into wasted energy also equating into wasted time. if anything is going on that you CANNOT deal with tow words will fix it: "Cha-Chink" that's the reason we have a reserve! i wouldn't waste my time investigating, etc...etc...in the end, it is what it is. time for a reserve re-pack? best of luck. --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

i know that's a white tail? but it doggone sure looks like a kangaroo!

ya gotta hate that! maybe if you would've diggie poo'd out ya could've saved the swoop a moundo!

either that, or "Pookie Bear" sorry Hook, had to do it bro! *ducking and hiding* --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

Hey Free: could you provide something a little more current? --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

no one has attacked anyone here dan has made suggestions in these forums, no one made him say anything. i don't know about the "lucky" part. is it information, or advertisement and solicitation? you don't see the reps from PD/Big Air Sports/Pisa/Aerodyne...etc...posting here about anything because they know it can lead to statements that you can be held accountable for. i can overview all of the posts on this original topic and see at least 8 questions Dan has refused to answer directly, i would like to know the answers to the questions myself. --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"