LeeroyJenkins

Dud, can you please stop with the s crypto references? You sound like the grandpa trying to be hip. Also you might have missed my last post as it looks like we posted at the same time.

That suit would not generate as much lift if the coefficients were the same. For given weight, in sustained flight lift and drag depend only on L/D (been discussed already: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4896684#4896684), so if we achieve the same L/D as that of a mattress, L and D are the same, it's just the speed will be higher due to higher WL (just like in canopies). And I have all reasons to believe that The Machine will achieve at least 3.0 (but the ultimate goal is even higher L/D). Even if initially The Machine was made as a foam replica of Vampire-2, that's already L/D=2.5. Reducing drag from the body by placing it in "wingmonauti" configuration to relative wind, and having high-lift airfoil profiles for both arm and leg wings, much cleaner flow over the leg wing, and less drag thanks to sharp trailing edges and no pillowing, getting extra 20% should be no brainer. Then, we'll have the lead over WSMs in aerodynamic finesse - the most difficult thing to improve. But the burden to do this is on us, so we need to start doing something, all of us, whatever everybody is best at. We need to start mining our sweet "cryptocurrency" - L/D "coin". We need to change the course of history, we can't sit in this CoW swamp forever... We don't need to do anything because what you want is unrealistic. Also can you posts the equation for lift? I hope someone will find this realistic and start working on it. Me, may take several months, or even years, because I have so many other things to do in WS arena. L = W*Kl*V^2? It that one of your equations, or just funky variables? Now I am on a computer. The equations of lift for an airfoil is: L=Cl*A*0.5*p*V^2 L=lift Cl=Coefficient of lift A= Area p=Density V=Velocity What you said previously is false. Area is very important for lift. High Cl doesn't do anything if there isn't enough area. Also, what other Wingsuit stuff do you have to do? This is your thing. Second if the foam is easily bendable I bet it will deform under load.

That suit would not generate as much lift if the coefficients were the same. For given weight, in sustained flight lift and drag depend only on L/D (been discussed already: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4896684#4896684), so if we achieve the same L/D as that of a mattress, L and D are the same, it's just the speed will be higher due to higher WL (just like in canopies). And I have all reasons to believe that The Machine will achieve at least 3.0 (but the ultimate goal is even higher L/D). Even if initially The Machine was made as a foam replica of Vampire-2, that's already L/D=2.5. Reducing drag from the body by placing it in "wingmonauti" configuration to relative wind, and having high-lift airfoil profiles for both arm and leg wings, much cleaner flow over the leg wing, and less drag thanks to sharp trailing edges and no pillowing, getting extra 20% should be no brainer. Then, we'll have the lead over WSMs in aerodynamic finesse - the most difficult thing to improve. But the burden to do this is on us, so we need to start doing something, all of us, whatever everybody is best at. We need to start mining our sweet "cryptocurrency" - L/D "coin". We need to change the course of history, we can't sit in this CoW swamp forever... We don't need to do anything because what you want is unrealistic. Also can you posts the equation for lift?

That suit would not generate as much lift if the coefficients were the same.

He never said anything of the sort. He claimed to quit jumping because of the USPA. Hate is the adjective I chose to describe that. You probably missed all the deleted comments from the original incident thread. He said that multiple times. Yeah, I did miss quite a few. Its annoying when threads are wrecked like that. Generally I give up on those discussions when that happens, because there is no point in them when context is destroyed like that. Its no longer a discussion. Defeats the purpose really. Apparently Ron really, really, really hates the USPA. I doubt that very much. USPA is too toothless to engender that sort of emotion. Disappointed might be more accurate, and in that, I'm sure he's not alone.

He never said anything of the sort. You probably missed all the deleted comments from the original incident thread. He said that multiple times. Yeah, I did miss quite a few. Its annoying when threads are wrecked like that. Generally I give up on those discussions when that happens, because there is no point in them when context is destroyed like that. Its no longer a discussion. Defeats the purpose really. Apparently Ron really, really, really hates the USPA.

Or donations for a museum. Or that too.

He never said anything of the sort. You probably missed all the deleted comments from the original incident thread. He said that multiple times.

Yes, it won't be a mainstream wingsuit, but it doesn't need to be. It's in addition to mattresses. What we have now is like a minivan - it does the job done, drive kids to school, drive to a mall, it's roomy and reliable, can even go high performance: But if we don't do anything, we'll never get this additional toy in our garage: Mattress = minivan 'The Machine' = sports car We need both! Mattresses are not going anywhere. Right tool for the right job! But if all we see in the year 2038, another 20 years from now, is mattresses/minivans, it's just a lame waste of time and talent we all collectively have. Good call for all of us in our distributed global network of revolutionaries! Wingsuit "bitcoin miners", let's roll up our sleeves and actually do it! Exposing mainstream WSMs (aka 'The Stooges') was only necessary to start the Great Wingsuit Revolution of 2018, but they are irrelevant now as they have a proven track of not coming up with anything new in decades. Let's MWGA! Our future is in our hands. Lol, no. They were not exposed for being anything. They product a good product that has been taking incremental steps. What you want is something closer to Jetman, and to a modern wingsuit.

Income that can be used for advocating the sport

Insufficient, you still have not shown where the USPA guarantees that DZ are safe. Sure they could. The "psycobable" is accurate. You got me, I made a quip about you conflating points. You confusing points is not an ad hominem and the strawman you think I used is because again you were confusing points. Maybe they provide that illusion in your opinion. I don't believe that and anyone that reads the pledge can see that they do not guarantee safety. Just because you feel like a victim doesn't mean you are one. I am attacking your views. Not you. I don't even know you, your just some dude named Ron that quit skydiving because he hates the USPA so much. The only point I'm making at this point is one that refutes your belief that the USPA has some duty to posts details about a TI fatality on DZ.com. They Don't. The other point I was refuting you provided some context too and now its irrelevant.

Read the post again. I answered this one already. Hell, you quoted it. Ron, promise and guarantee are absolutes. There is no way the USPA guarantees that their member dropzones are safe. They can guarantee they are members and they should* be following the safety rules but there is no way they can guarantee they are* following them. Also, attacking what you are saying is not attacking you. I know deeply held beliefs, when questioned can trigger the same part of the brain as self identity, but in this case we are attacking what your are saying. Not you personally. Anyway the USPA Certificate of Group Membership Signifies the affiliation and the pledge to comply with USPA's Basic Safety Requirements as well as applicable Federal Aviation Regulations.

I'm saying his points aren't valid period. I don't even know who he was when I criticized his first point and still don't know who he is. Frankly, I don't care who he is because it's irrelevant. Never in my short skydiving career have I ever assumed that the USPA promised that the member DZ were guaranteed safe. That's an outrageous claim. All the group member agreement says is what they should do.

One thing I will say is that you are persistent, maybe a little nuts, and dedicated. What you want to build is not a main stream wingsuit. You want something highly specialized that will not be commonly used and for sure will not be used in small planes. Stop fighting with the MSWM or whatever you call them and focus on the custom suits

You just contradicted yourself in the same post. ***What is your exact point regarding this TI fatality that you want to make? That the USPA needs to make a statement. A high profile death and they are silent. Secondly that the requirement for an FAA medical is stupid and is bowing to manufacturers and not supporting the membership. Group member program. Yet all the DZ has to do is sign a pledge. There are SEVERAL DZ's that have had FAA action against them for not following FAR's and are still group members. Lol, Ron, that isn’t an insult. It’s a statement of fact. You quitting the USPA has no effect. There were no ripples created from it. It’s also a fact you you are conflating two points I’m making. It’s one death that is barley going to make a blip on the news. So were does the USPA promise to ensure that the DZ is safe?

I was both as well and hold a class 1. You seem to be ignoring the point. Arguing against a position I never made (read up on "strawman"). ***But thanks you for providing the context as to why you're such a hostile poster. And again, you attack me... Still have not read up on Ad hominem, huh? Hey Bill... I thought attacking the person was against the rules? Ron, I'm not attacking you personally. I now see that your issue is with the entire USPA. Its an observation. As for you quitting skydiving. I'm sure the pebble you threw into the ocean really mattered. For an Ad hominem I would have to disregard your argument because of you as a person. I am not doing that. I am pointing out that you have a hostile attitude and that is why your posts clearly have a hostile tone regardless of their content. I'm making two separate points simultaneously in one post. Its 2018, keep up. I guess I can clarify. What is your exact point regarding this TI fatality that you want to make? Ron, how exactly does the USPA promise that its DZ's are safe?

Nope, try reading it again... I said the USPA requires an FAA medical. ***If you didn't imply that the entire premise of your question about the USPA wouldn't make sense Nonsense. It makes perfect sense if you realize that I think most of what the USPA does is a joke. They demand at least a class three medical but the FAA does not care about a medical for skydiving - UPT does and forced the USPA to make TI's have one. Pointing out the guy had a medical is pointing out it DIDN'T work... So why is the USPA demanding it? And what are they going to do about the situation if the medical clearly didn't stop anything. It is because: 1. This has nothing to do with guns. 2. Maybe you should read my sig line. Again, not what I said at all. Maybe what you wanted to think I typed... But not what I actually did type. It only protects the manufacturer. Maybe you should read up on when TI's were "certified" the rig maker. They didn't want to do it so they begged the USPA to take it over. But they demanded the USPA keep the medical. USPA caved and bowed to the manufactures wishes over the membership. Maybe you should read what was written and not what you wanted it to say. Yep, more trying to play me and not the topic... You try to claim about people using bad logic, you might want to read up on Ad hominem. I'm sigma and Strong certified and use both regularly. I have a class 3 and I still am not worried about the outcome of this incident. I know what you wrote. I see you moving goalposts and that's it fine. I know I am not the only one that can clearly see it. Not included in any statement you previously made, it's irrelevant to your statement. Your argument and your attitude are different things. Both are shown to bad in this thread. One doesn't make the other bad. You do that on your own. But thanks you for providing the context as to why you're such a hostile poster.

Yes, but how? I think this is where the idea of placing the body at zero AoA and having non-zero AoI for the wings could probably shine (it's unproven so far, though). I did some estimates, and it seemed to be feasible. This picture is not exactly what I have in mind: upper legs should be bent a bit at the hips, but lower legs should be parallel to torso, so both torso and lower legs are at zero AoA, wings are at non-zero AoA (equal to AoI in this case). The airflow above torso will be then much smoother, since it's essentially in "headdown", or "speed skydiving" position to relative wind, and the drag should be greatly reduced. And is argued in the calculations above, the loss of drag will be advantageous despite loss of lift from the body, since body has such poor L/D by itself (0.7-1.0). PS. Legs should be like in this picture of atmonauti (the top jumper): bent in hips, but lower legs parallel to airflow. Torso is also parallel to airflow (the very idea of atmonauti). Does anyone even do atmonauti these days anymore?... Just fyi in high speed comps the suit is flying closer to your "super terminal" image. Also air flow separation is more attributed to material than it is to anything else. The better change the boundary layer has of "sticking the longer it will stay attached" Its the concept behind vortex generators. By keeping that layer as small and attached for as long as possible lift will be increased.

YOU were the one that made this baseless claim: "bet this guy thinks "Gun free zone" signs stop shootings." Instead of trying to "play the player", you might try to play the ball. That is poor reasoning. ***Thinking a class three is going to stop someone with depression or stop someone from developing depression before it expires is an absolutely ridiculous assumption. Never said it would. In fact, I think the USPA should drop the FAA medical requirement. It makes zero sense after LSA and now Basic Med. It is just the USPA doing what UPT wants. He is on the BOD. Nice attempted dodge, you said: As you can see you implied that the class three should have prevented this and you want to know what the upsa is going to do about it. If you didn't imply that the entire premise of your question about the USPA wouldn't make sense. My claim about gun signs is not baseless. It is based in you implying that a class three should have prevented this. which is as ridiculous as thinking gun signs stop shootings. (I agree class three is dumb but its a good CYA for the UPSA, FAA, and DZO) If you didn't imply that your question wouldn't make sense, and you should be more clear on what you want instead of just ranting. 1 USPA Board member still doesn't speak for the entire USPA or the part of the USPA that assists in investigations. So yeah, Ron, again, chill. It's one incident, information will come out, and when it does you can comment on it all you want. Right now your in the category of "old man yells at cloud." Just relax.

Trying to play me? I was just asking why a USPA BOD member was telling members to do the job of the USPA. Don't blame me you don't like me pointing that out. BTW, your trying to insult me has ZERO impact. Shame the USPA BOD has to insult individuals. lol, Ron, the USPA is doing their job. I can assure you that calling the DZ public number is not what they are supposed to do.

You clearly have ZERO idea who you are talking to... ***It was likely a suicide or human error (no leg straps). Don't you think it would be nice to know which? Don't you think the USPA should be doing more than telling the members to look into it themselves? Ron, Don't care who anyone is. Poor reasoning can come from anyone. Thinking a class three is going to stop someone with depression or stop someone from developing depression before it expires is an absolutely ridiculous assumption. Shure it will be nice to know eventually. There is no reason it needs to be know immediately or with the aggression and hostility you are showing in this thread. The correct authorities will disseminate the information through the proper channels. Also, one person on DZ.com does not represent the entire USPA.

I bet this guy thinks "Gun free zone" signs stop shootings. Seriously, I do not understand why everyone is freaking out over this incident. It was likely a suicide or human error (no leg straps). If it was something wrong with the design of their rig this would not be the first time it has ever happen.

I would be curious to see what would happen if they made a suit out of sail cloth like HP canopies. I'm no expert here, but for me it seems that the material used for wingsuits (at least SQ, but I think PF uses now something very similar) is thicker and in my opinion would be more rigid than sail. I've never closely compared the two, I suspect sail cloth is smoother, it may however need more reenforcement to stay in shape.

I would be curious to see what would happen if they made a suit out of sail cloth like HP canopies.