CrashProne

What do you mean? Pilot definitely has a negative recovery arc Maybe we're using different terms. I guess I refer to it in terms of 'positive pitch stability' in that it recovers quickly to its natural trimmed pitch. I would prefer a more neutral pitch stability, something that'll stay where I put it longer and recover from a dive more slowly.

More great discussion, thanks for the opinions! I do currently fly a Pilot, but I was hoping to move to something with a less positive recovery arc than the Pilot at 1.4. Maybe Sabre 2 is the next step for me if I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a second rig just yet... I'll have to take one for a test drive soon.

Don't know anything about that, but have you downloaded the Rhythm 101 app to your phone yet? It has a few nice 2 and 3 way drills, with description and video.

Still listening!

Sounds fun, I'll play!

I'm a bigger guy at 6'1" and 240 out the door, but I don't find myself sinking out of tracking jumps now that I've done a few and learned some technique. First, just like any other jump, dressing for success will help. If everyone else is wearing a suit, you should too. If you're the heaviest on the load, wearing something that gives you a bit more power is going to make your life easier. Beyond that, a LOT can be done with body position to make huge changes in how your track actually flies. Initially, I think all of us spend a few jumps in a delta when we 'think' we're tracking, and that will definitely get you low and behind. Get a coach jump or two, with video, and you can get that tuned up into a much more successful track.

Uh, no.

Thanks for your explanation. I'm starting to understand why most wingsuit fliers at the DZ seem to have two rigs...

Is this student anywhere near Southern California? I was just through Elsinore, and it seemed like they have a Korean contingent training there...

Aaaand, I guess that answers that. Just got this reply from Aerodyne... "The Pilot or the Pilot7 are the best canopies for wingsuiting. The Zulu really isn’t suited for that discipline."

Well, I'm not sure how accurate Aerodyne's formula for "Planform Factor" is when used to determine canopy handling characteristics, but they advertise the PF of the Zulu at 10.0, so you can see where it fits on this matrix of other known canopies. Pf N Springo 110 28.0 8 cells tapered Crossfire2 21.6 8 cells tapered Safire2 16.4 8 cells tapered Vision 124 15.5 6 cells tapered Stiletto 120 13.3 4 cells tapered Diablo 120 10.7 4 cells tapered Electra 150 9.5 4 cells tapered Pilot 124 6.7 4 cells tapered Sabre2 120 5.4 6 cells tapered This would be the Zulu 172, loaded at 1.4...

So, I demo'd a Zulu and had a blast. I'm now considering it as a replacement for my Pilot. Anyone have an opinion if it that would be a reasonable and safe wingsuit canopy loaded at 1.4? I don't know any locals that jump one, wingsuit or otherwise. Thanks in advance!

Here's my experience... On back to back jumps, flying the Pilot and the Zulu, I can tell you that if you put both of them in a steep dive, then release all inputs, the pilot pulls out MUCH quicker, you can feel it pull more g's during the recovery than on the Zulu. The Zulu was also going faster when all input was released and recovery allowed on it's own, but once again, it did not recover as aggressively as the Pilot, the difference was very noticeable. The same was true after either aggressive toggle turn or front riser dive. I think there's more at play here than just how steep the canopy trim is. I'm guessing the lineset also differs in where it places the pilots weight under the canopy, thus affecting pitch stability. Take for instance a fixed wing glider. If you move the center of gravity forward, it will become more pitch stable, so if you put it in a dive, then let go, it will recover more quickly on it's own to the trimmed airspeed. If you move the c/g rearward, it will handle more neutral, and take longer to recover from the same maneuver. If you move it back TOO far, it will go past neutral stability and into the realm of negative dynamic pitch stability. If you then put it into a dive and let go, it will actually pitch over steeper as the airspeed builds and will NOT recover on it's own. You can see this by examining the elevator trim setting required to attain level flight at a constant airspeed. On a perfectly balanced c/g, the elevator will be trimmed exactly neutral, or very slightly up (depending on your definition of perfectly balanced [sly. With a more forward c/g, you'll need to dial in some more nose up trim to maintain level flight, and if you move it rearward, you'll actually be trimmed slightly nose down to stay level. Now, if you pitch over and gain speed with some nose down trim dialed in, then let go, things get interesting in a hurry! Some hot rod canopies seem to stay in whatever pitch you put them in until you tell them otherwise. I suspect this has more than a little to do with where the center of gravity is in relation to the center of lift on the wing...

Define "flat"... I've had the same question, as I fly a Pilot and felt the recovery arc was more positive than I preferred after just a few jumps. Going down one size didn't help. So, options from there? Sabre 2 seems like it flies almost as flat as the Pilot when you want it to, but will dive easier and recover more gradually. I've not flown one, so I'm basing that assumption on input from others and lots of video. I have, however, recently flown the Zulu and I freakin loved it. Only two jumps, but both openings (terminal) were picture perfect and it was a blast to fly. Compared to the Pilot, it of course did everything faster, required a fraction of the effort on front risers and had a longer (maybe 1.5-2 times) recovery that was nice and smooth. Huge power in the flare. I was at an unfamiliar DZ and it was pretty windy, so I didn't get a great feel for its ability to get back from a long spot, but the rep tells me it glides flatter than the Crossfire 2 or Katana, but with a recovery arc somewhere between those two. I can't wait to fly one some more!

WRJ hit it spot on. I found a used rig from another jumper at my DZ at around 40 jumps and grabbed it up. I put 100 jumps on it in six months then sold it for $200 less than I paid, so $2/jump.

One solid swig of apple cider vinegar works for me, every time.

I felt much the same through my AFF jumps. Once I was on solo status though, it began to subside and become more fun. On a few of my solo jumps, I tried some 'fun' exits like gainers, front flips, going out on my back etc. I think this helped as well. Now, just passing 150 jumps, the apprehension is all but gone. Still a little bit of butterflies on the first jump after a week or so off, but MUCH better than in the beginning. Stick with it!

No offense, but I'm curious. If you have no intention of installing or jumping your experimental unit, why would it need a cutter attached? As your original post was inquiring primarily about attaching another companies cutter to your unit, you might see why some people would "jump" to that conclusion.

Go to Jetman's website or facebook and ask there, they purport to be fairly responsive to questions.

I've noticed this as a trend, it seems several container manufacturers treat the Pilot line as having a larger pack volume than similar square foot canopies from other lines/makers. For example, Infinity recommends a larger container for a Pilot 188 than for a Sabre 2 190...

Isn't he about 97 years old?!?

This.

Another newbie here, and also a fan of the Pilot. I haven't jumped the Sabre 2, but from lots of talking and reading, I believe they are not too different. The Sabre maybe dives a little steeper and it's natural recovery arc is a little slower, whereas the Pilot is known for nicer, more consistent openings and is maybe a bit more lively on the toggles. Both have reputations for a nice flare and landing.

Hate to say it, but I'm not surprised either. Guy had some skills to be sure, but you can only operate with that slim a margin for so long before you miss by a few inches and die, and that goes for any high speed/risk environment.

I absolutely love almost the entire line of Twin Commanders, but I don't think any of them would make decent jump planes.