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We talked about this a few moths ago in the zika thread found here. I expressed how it wasn't my intention to use this science as proof of God's existence. So I don't know if you're just making a general statement or trying to imply that I was suggesting that. Personally, I don't need science to validate or prove God's existence in order to have faith in Him - I find the mere suggestion ridiculous as it subjects God to the limited conclusions of science as if he were so dependent and inferior to them. For the most part, I've always believed that it was naturally within us to perceive the concept of God, then I read it in scripture, and now even science is suggesting that perhaps we're predisposed to faith for whatever reason. The causes for that don't really interest me as much as the predisposition itself. The point is that that's evidence that there is a predisposition - how you relate to God beyond that is another story altogether. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Quiet in the peanut gallery! Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I suspect you're misconstruing the science. I suspect you're not even familiar with the science. I've read about the research to which I think you're referring. Like I said, I don't think it implies what you believe it implies. I think it implies that we have a predisposition toward faith. What do you think it implies? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I suspect you're misconstruing the science. I suspect you're not even familiar with the science. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Nonsense. I'm not rejecting science at all. Then you agree that belief in God is somehow related to evolution, either directly or indirectly? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Yes I believe Christ is the way, but remember I didn't always believe, and have entertained other religions before finally identifying with Christ. I would never judge the eternal condition of another - especially when I don't know where they're at in their spiritual journey or how Christ has revealed Himself to them. ...now what does any of this have to do the video that you didn't watch? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Like what? The video is 9 minutes long - I'm not going to sit through that, and I'm pretty sure that you didn't either. Damn, Even when it's of the homework is done for you . . . Blissful willful ignorance. Are you afraid that the things you say to justify your belief is almost exactly what his is? Scared of getting our bubble burst? You said that he parrots a lot of what we said. All I asked from you was to give a few examples - but I don't think you even watched it. You're just making more stupid assumptions as usual. ...and so what if I agree with him - I grew up with a bunch of muslims in Detroit/Hamtramck/Dearborn which is practically the American Mecca - this may come as a surprise, but I have agreed with muslims before - hell, I've had muslims work for me and I've done work for muslims - many of my fiancee's oncologists are muslim. ...wtf is your problem dude? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

It seems the war on women has taken an interesting turn. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

We are all born atheists. We have to learn be brainwashed before believing in religion. It's no different from "teaching" children the Santa myth as though it is real. I can understand why you would reject that concept. If you were to accept it, then your little analogies to Santa, leprechauns etc., just become irrelevant babble. It's interesting how you reject science when it doesn't fit your narrative. Besides, this isn't necessarily about religion, but a general inherent belief - how you identify with God after that is another story. I'd suspect that the majority of antagonists that mock belief in God would rather we ignore the scientific concept of innate faith, lest they be exposed as the intolerant, condescending bigots that they are. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Like what? The video is 9 minutes long - I'm not going to sit through that, and I'm pretty sure that you didn't either. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Do you praise god for that because you think he personally orchestrates the things that happen to you, or just for creating the starting conditions that make living in the world and randomly encountering these challenges possible? For this exercise, do I get any other options - or am I limited to just those two? Sure, explain it to me. Well since you were the one "leading the witness," I was hoping you'd put forth the effort into giving me more options. . . Those were honestly the only two reasons I could think of. What is your reason? I guess I never really thought about it to that extent - I know that I didn't feel comfortable choosing either of your options exclusively - so maybe a little bit of both or somewhere in between, I suppose. In a fallen world bad things are bound to happen, and when those situations are avoided and good things happen, I have an almost instinctive sense of appreciation. Personally, I think most people have that instinct - even atheists and the non-religious. When a tragedy is avoided, they too instinctively say "thank God" - and IMHO I think there is a bit more to that than it just being merely an expression. When bad things happen, I don't necessarily thank Him for allowing them to happen - and sometimes I get a bit pissed off, but I try to look for the good in it and pray that it'll somehow work out to my benefit as promised. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

And what, precisely, would the "intrinsic value of inherent faith in God" be? Well, I wouldn't expect you to see the value, but suffice it to say that belief in God is an inherent characteristic of human nature - an "evolutionary benefit" if you will. . .well, at least that's what the scientific community seems to be calling it. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Listen, I understand the point you were trying to make - I was just having some fun - I twisted it up a bit and it made you feel uncomfortable, I get it - no biggie. It's similar to the point I made to Wendy that God has no place in the limited human construct of the scientific method. ...but this is the issue I wanted to get to. Your argument is that one does not even have to consider the possibility of God, but my argument is that they will have to consider it one way or another - either through a negative/positive indirect external influence, or on their own by way of personal reflection. In other words, we're born this way. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

As interesting as it was - in the grand scope of things, you've provided nothing but irrelevant nonsense about some hypothetical dice game that has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of inherent faith in God. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Again, I've already addressed your parable - you just refuse to acknowledge the intrinsic belief in God. . . .btw, I don't think you're as cool as your avatar suggests. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Has it ever occurred to you that when you resort to these tactics, it reveals that your position is weak? "You're no longer able to argue from facts, but are instead trying to dismiss the person entirely. You're trying to shut down the conversation and maintain an egotistical advantage instead of a reasoned one" Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I have addressed it - humans don't have an innate desire to question a dice game as they do to acknowledge that a creation has a creator. Don't confuse your inability to comprehend with a lack of explanation. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Don't confuse your inability to comprehend with a lack of explanation. Has it ever occurred to you that when you resort to these tactics, it reveals that your position is weak? "You're no longer able to argue from facts, but are instead trying to dismiss the person entirely. You're trying to shut down the conversation and maintain an egotistical advantage instead of a reasoned one?" Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Well, you may have tried, but you failed miserably. So your logic is faulty and inconsistent. Ya, you can say all that, but you can't explain it - lame. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Clearly you failed to understand the metaphor. No, clearly I just simply turned it against you. No, I don't possess an inherent characteristic to believe that I should. I believe it as strongly as I inherently believe that a creation has a creator. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Do you praise god for that because you think he personally orchestrates the things that happen to you, or just for creating the starting conditions that make living in the world and randomly encountering these challenges possible? For this exercise, do I get any other options - or am I limited to just those two? Sure, explain it to me. Well since you were the one "leading the witness," I was hoping you'd put forth the effort into giving me more options. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I think there's a lot of people out there with loaded dice that would like to take advantage of Bob - they could steal all his money before he even suspected anything was wrong. You have Al and Bob confused with each other. Nonsense, clearly Bob is the one that needs scientific proof that he has been deceived before believing it - unfortunately for him tho, by that time it's too late. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

ok, we get it - you're not into role playing. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Do you praise god for that because you think he personally orchestrates the things that happen to you, or just for creating the starting conditions that make living in the world and randomly encountering these challenges possible? For this exercise, do I get any other options - or am I limited to just those two? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Anthagonist? (the H is silent) Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour