diverdriver

I hope I don't ruin anyone's image of me but one of my favorite groups is Skinny Puppy. From Smothered Hope: smothered hope fly from sorrow for a new divine tomorrow i just don't want to know anymore life shifts up and down everybody knows it's wrong why don't you care? now do it seem fair?

Does anyone know if this jumper was required to wear corrective lenses for driving? Was he wearing them on this jump? My point is that I know people who need glasses for driving but don't wear them for jumping. This, I just don't understand. Seems like a reasonable (albeit guess) as to why this person, and others, "suddenly" realize there are powerlines. If you see a straight line on the ground....chances are it's man made. Again, not saying that's what happened here, but it is something to consider in your own jumping career. Chris Schindler

Pete, Wait, is this for the position of Pacific Regional Director or National Director? I thought Max Cohn was running for National Director. Max? Has this changed? Can someone run for two positions at once? Can you hold both a Regional and National Director position at once? Chris Schindler

I didn't want to put this in the Incidents forum since the most recent accident file to update is from 1997. But after a recent exchange of emails with the NTSB I was able to find these 14 Non-Fatal and 1 Fatal jump plane accident from 1984-1997. The new reports should show up in the list on my website soon. C-182 Non-Fatal Johnson City, TN December 15, 1984 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X41713&key=1 C-182 Non-Fatal Wesley Chapel, FL January 6, 1985 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X35574&key=2 C-180 Non-Fatal Carlton, MN December 5, 1987 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X32673&key=1 C-182 Non-Fatal Raeford, NC May 10, 1988 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X25610&key=1 C-182 Non-Fatal Menomonee Falls, WI July 3, 1988 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X26171&key=1 C-182 Non-Fatal Baldwin, WI February 11, 1989 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X27702&key=1 C-182 Non-Fatal Ogden, UT September 8, 1990 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X24372&key=1 DHC-6 Non-Fatal Perris Valley, CA December 9, 1990 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X24764&key=1 C-182 Fatal Estacada, OR December 31, 1990 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X24816&key=1 C-185 Non-Fatal New Hanover, PA May 12, 1991 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X17102&key=1 DC-3 Non-Fatal Zephyrhills, FL April 20, 1993 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X12199&key=1 C-170 Non-Fatal Bushnell, FL April 26, 1994 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001206X01164&key=1 C-182 Non-Fatal Chippewa Falls, WI July 19, 1997 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X08329&key=1 C-182 Non-Fatal Madera, CA September 6, 1997 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X08880&key=1 C-182 Non-Fatal Parkton, NC November 9, 1997 www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X09224&key=1 Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Soo......let me get this right.....you're ENCOURAGING post whoring? Bwaahahahahhaha.......

Man....show me the love. Nah...gotta get the plane back and get back to work. December is a really bad month to take time off from the airline but they aproved it anyway cuz they thought it was a cool thing too. Chris

LOL.....ok...one more time. ME! I'll be there flying one of the otters. Chris

No, I think that is exactly the point I was trying to make. Having 3 years and 300 jumps in the sport could quite possibly make you more "experienced" than the 300 jump/six month jumper. We have the same saying in flying. Do you 1,000 hours experience or do you have 1 hour of experience 1,000 times. Same applies here and you just have to ask questions to find out where someone is. Stop asking questions after "How many jumps you got" definitely doesn't give the whole story. Chris

Which one?

Doh! Sorry, was looking in Incidents for it.

Same at SDC. Expert Cypreses on student rigs.

Was there an injury?

I want everyone to know that it does not matter what plane you are flying in. Ground speed is ground speed. Yes, King Airs, Casas, and Sky Vans can fly faster than most jump planes but that does NOT mean that 7 seconds is enough time in between groups. I have seen grounspeeds as low as 17 knots in my Super Twin Otter. We were giving 45 seconds in between groups. And yes, they were mostly 2 ways and Tandems! There is no "standard situations". There is only THIS situation at the time of your jump. You have to check. 10 years ago we did not have the great differences in disciplines as we do now. Much greater care has to be given to seperation and it has to be based on scientific fact. This time of year the upper level winds are much higher than in the summer. If the jump plane is running directly or mostly into the upper level winds the groundspeeds can be quite low. Much greater seperation is necessary. Check with your pilot as to what the current groundspeed is and apply the seperation that I have listed with like groups. If you drop flats first (largest group to smallest), then free flyers (largest to smallest) then high pullers, students, tandems you should not have to vary the time. But if you reverse the order with free fliers first you need to give extra care between the last free fly group and the first flat fly group. It can be done but you have to understand how much more time is needed so the flat flyers don't drift over the top of the freeflyers. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Yes, you said: So I'm just going on your words that seem that you like using the angle method over counting. To all: The thing you need to remember is that if the plane doesn't go anywhere over the ground (80mph headwind, airspeed 80mph) then you won't have any seperation (as you stated). But if you watched those solos leave they would "appear" to drift "back" just like any group departing when the groundspeed it higher. They won't go straight down from your perspective because they are now drifting in the 80mph wind in your example. So just waiting for there to be an angle backwards towards the tail can only fool the observer. You MUST know how far you have traveled over the ground relative to the prvious group. That is done by knowing the groundspeed. R (rate) x T (time) = D (distance). Knowing the groundspeed from the pilot will allow you to pick the correct seperation time. Angle method does NOT guarantee seperation at deployment. You have to know how far you have traveled. And also remember that just because the airspeed indicator says 80 knots doesn't mean that's how fast you are going through the air. Your TRUE AIRSPEED will be higher. 80 knots indicated airspeed at 13K above sea level will be about 105 knots True Airspeed. In a no wind condition TAS = GS. 100+ knots groundpseed = 5 seconds 90-100 knots = 10 - 6 seconds 80-90 knots = 15 - 10 seconds 70-80 knots = 20 - 15 seconds 60-70 knots = 30 - 20 seconds less than 60 knots = 30+ seconds I'm rehashing it because there might be new jumpers here who have not seen this conversation before. Yes, they can do a search and pull up some of the threads. But it is easier some times to just post it again. I've been on the "drift over" load and come down next to a flat fly solo after my solo free fly. It has to be avoided at all costs. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Ahhhhhh.....ok. I forgot I was in a topical forum. Thanks.

No, it never will. All you are looking at is how the jumpers are decelerating their forward motion with the aircraft. It will NEVER guarantee you seperation at deployment. Again, go look at Professor John Kallend's website on freefall drift. HERE He is a professor of engineering and has spent many, MANY hours on developing this program and speaking at different events on freefall drift myths and realities. I say again, the angle method does NOT guarantee seperation at deployment altitude. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Unless I'm reading this wrong I would NOT recommend doing this. Doing a flip while under canopy will only put your feet near your lines. We had a fatalitiy at SDC due to this July 4th, 1998. A visiting jumper flipped upside down while under canopy and got his foot caught in the lines causing a spin that he did not get out of before hitting the ground head first. Chris Schindler

psssst.....phree.......not 300 feet.

I think it is because cypres sounds like the "cypress" tree. For the record: CYbernetic Parachute RElease System = CYPRES.

Thanks for sharing. One question. What kind of helmet do you have your audible mounted in? My point is what is a second audible going to do you if you didn't hear the first one even though it was working? It may be a matter of taping the outside of the helmet (if it's a pro-tec) so the whistle of freefall is blocked somewhat. Chris Schindler

Boy, what a loaded question. I'm going to take a different route in my response than the ones already posted. You asked about experience level and I don't take that to be physical manipulation totally. It also has to do with judgement. Having been in the sport longer, Jumper B may have seen more winded out days. They may have seen some other jumpers get hurt because of high/turbulent winds. Jumper B may have spent more time on DZ.com reading about all kinds of different topics. Not just incident reports, but also articles on "how to". It's been said, "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect." So if Jumper A has just gone up for jump after jump just because they can afford it have they really improved anything? Being in the sport for only 6 months I would say that Jumper A has not seen all parts of the year for jumping. Varying weather conditions need different considerations. Just spending all your time jumping may have you missing out on other learning experiences about the sport. So my final answer, Regis, is that Jumper B is the more experienced jumper as I define what "experienced" is. Chris Schindler

Turbine engines aint cheap but they are very reliable and don't require overhaul until almost double that of a piston engine. They are lighter so that you can carry more pax/fuel and produce more power (safety) and aren't suceptible to "shock cooling". They do have other limitations that pilots have to be aware of for sure.

You know, there is such a thing as a Turbine Cessna 206. Check the specs out. Max gross takeoff rate of climb is 1950 fpm. Waaawhooo!!!!!! You can have student and experienced jumpers on the DZ and fly everyone cuz it goes so fast. If I were a DZO that is the plane I would want to start with. Ahhh,,,the pipe dream. Chris

Yes, it would. Getting an A license means you can pack a main. It does not mean you know how to rig. And hooking up a canopy can involve rigging. I think you've learned a lot from this experience. You see how this incident did not start on the day of the incident. Your mindset was shaped by the events of the previous week (as I am surmizing from your comments). This is the human factors that I'm talking about in my posts. I'm glad that you will seek help from a rigger the next time. But I suggest that you not wait until you have to do it. Find some time without distraction and get a lesson from someone knowledgable. In fact, I will be at Skydive Arizona December 6th -16th. I'd certainly like to meet you. (I saw this as your home DZ in your profile.) I am also sure that there are others at SDA that can help you do this too. Remember the bigger picture here. When doing something you've not done before get instruction. Canopy flight, rigging, freeflying, swooping, floating, diver driving are all things we are born NOT knowing. We must be taught. Chris Schindler

Sky, Others have posted about how to hook a canopy up correctly. But when you ask what did you do wrong I see the answer as being different. You did NOT get the help of a more experienced jumper (preferably a Rigger) to teach you how to do it correctly or to check the work that you had done. THAT is the mistake you made. The canopy on backwards was just the end result. Now, take these words as a chance to grow. And this goes to ALL jumpers who have less than 200 jumps OR less than 2 years in the sport, you know enough now to be dangerous. Not that you can't be dangerous after this period. But there certainly is a steep learning curve in this formative time in your skydiving career. Let me say that again, you know enough now to be dangerous. Just seeing something done once or twice without getting specific instruction on how to do something is dangerous. Watching some cool free fly move on video, watching people hook n swoop (TM), seeing someone transfer canopies or hook up canopies to risers does NOT mean you know how to do it. Please, for you own safety, get people to check your work BEFORE jumping something that you've changed. And don't get your 100 jump buddy to check it. I'm talking about someone that is really experienced. You (not you specificly Sky) have just enough knowledge now to be dangerous. I want all new jumpers to think more about their safety before attempting new things in their WHOLE skydiving careers. Chris Schindler