diverdriver

I believe that one of these pilots is a airline pilot while not flying F-16s. These "reserve" pilots don't fly as combat pilots all the time. They are experienced enough to fly the F-16s and defend their country. But when you make them take drugs that are ILLEGAL to take as an airline pilot because they have been shown to degrade judgement (yes alertness is increased but judgement has been decreased) then what do you expect can happen sometimes? They will make mistakes. And as for the ROE they had the right to engage the enemy if they came under attack. I don't think people realise the perspective of gunfire in the middle of darkness. When I'm flying at night over the city lights of Chicago EVERY plane within 50 miles can be visible and they all look like they are flying directly AT me. This is an illusion. That's why we have pretty lights on our planes so that we can tell if something is flying at us, away from us, or to the side of us. In WAR you don't get pretty lights telegraphing your intentions. If they had large guns firing in the middle of desert blackness I don't think we can judge them honestly. And if there was supposed to be a signal light indicating "friendlies" then they can't be held accountable either. Add in long patrols. The home side sentiment is "Kill these bastards who killed our citizens on 9/11". You are given a drug and told to use it to stay awake even though in your other flying job you are told NOT to take it because it degrades judgement. You want to do a good job. You ask about a target that appears to be firing on you. You see a large vehichle firing (seems to be at you). You know you are at war with the Al Quada and the Taliban. This is a WAR ON TERRORISM. You decide that it is kill or be killed and if you leave this target then someone else may have to come back and finish the job. You are in place to do the job you are trained to do (not run with your tail between your legs)...........What do you think are the possibilities that this accident won't happen again? I'll put my money on it happening again every time. These guys should not spend time in jail. They should be instructors so they can pass on the experience to other pilots. They have a valuable perspective that can't be read about. It has to be talked about face to face. When you talk to another pilot about an emergency experience (or in this case a combat experience) you get much more out of talking directly to them rather than reading some sanitised written report. That's all I've got to say about that. Chris

SDC weighs the jumper and adds the gear weight. Then adds 40 lbs to that number and then sizes the canopy at 1:1. If they are slightly over then they pick the next bigger size. Then the JM has the option to take them another size bigger according to the students performance on their tandems, the current conditions, the jumpers demeanor, and the JMs own experience with the program. When in doubt they converse with the other JMs about the student. The idea is to -not- make them "students" again when trying to downsize later buying their first gear. They are watched more while going through all of the AFP levels (up to 20 jumps and the A license) on radio. When people come off the training program at SDC I see them buy canopies that are the same size or one size smaller than their last canopy used on student status. I have to say it freaked me out the first time I taught someone to pack on their brand new gear with a Stilleto 150 and 30 jumps. But, after seeing this jumper (and many, many others) jump over the years since 1997 I really think it is the way to go in teaching people to survive off of student status in the modern skydiving world. Chris

I think everyone has answered the questions so I will not go on about it. I flew C-206s. The seat belts were no trouble and easy to get in and out of. No, I do not have technical drawings on how they are attached in the plane. Cessna in Whichita, KS should be able to help you. They've provided technical data for years. There are plenty of DZ's in the US that run 206s with belts that might be able to help you. I do not have the info handy since we don't run 206s at my home DZ. The 206s I flew were set up for pilot plus 6 jumpers and was NOT over weight. I fueled for 3 loads plus reserve. I'm a skinny ass pilot so maybe other fat boys would put you over the limit. You'll have to see for yourself. But that might be an hiring point between two pilots with the same qualifications. Which one is lighter would be more advantagious....... Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

I say don't jump that plane then. It may sound extreme but what is your life worth? I don't think things will change over night in other countries with no seat belts. But facts are facts. Seat belts increase your chances of survival in an airplane crash. And the whole "Well what if the planes on fire and the seat belt hinders me from getting out?" Well, what do you think caused that fire to start with? Maybe a high G impact force? So now without a seatbelt you died before the fire started. Might be a consolation but I'd much rather have a chance than none at all without a seat belt and a seat belt for everyone around me. It's going to take a grass roots effort and some real opinion changing to get Europe to change. But really, it's for your own safety. I say, make it happen. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

You assume that everyone is going to stay on the floor during a crash. Also, in a C-182 your pilot will have to deal with the people behind him pressing on the back of his seat thus reducing any last remaining control he might have during a crash sequence. Are you people with no seatbelts so tall that you sit on the floor and your head hits the ceiling? I don't think so. So your "one mass" theory doesn't work. If you get a vertical acceleration then you all will become a jumbled mess on the ceiling bouncing from ceiling to floor. After that, you are all unrestrained and will receive fatal injuries due to turning around in the plane. I have taken many classes on accident investigation and seen too many accident photos with mangled bodies (not just jump plane crashes only). You folks who want to believe in this fairy tale "one mass" theory are asking for death. And last check planes do crash in Europe just like the US. Don't wait for the regulation to tell you to wear a restraint. Do it now. On your own. Set an example. There is no difference between a large (otter) jump plane and a small (c-182) jump plane needing seat belts during an accident. "We don't need seat belts for every take off or landing. We just need them for that ONE take off or landing." And I've personally been through that "ONE" a few times. Listen to me. Get the seat belts. Install them. USE THEM! Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

1992 Perris, CA DHC-6 crash. 16 Fatal 6 Serious. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X14468&key=1 1992 Hinckley, IL Beech C-45 crash. 12 Fatal. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X15678&key=1 Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Perhaps Chris & HH could get together to have a shared forum that is accessible easily from either sight. Believe it or not HH and I have talked about this. If HH wants to start a pilot forum he is welcome to. We have talked about what our websites are for. His is geared towards jumpers. DiverDriver.com is geared towards pilots. Neither is mutually exclusive to the audience. I know we will be talking again about shared information. Knowledge is power. And that's what both Sangiro and I want. The spreading of information to jumpers AND pilots. If a forum started here I know that the forum on DD.com would not go away. Some people come to that site totally without passing through DZ.com. Having a place for them to ask questions is a good thing. Both our sites, DZ.com and DD.com, will continue to grow and evolve. Sangiro has been gracious to let me leach off of his site for traffic. I'm not making any money off my site so there is no "buisness" promotion going on. All I can say really is "We will see". It's not a bad suggestion. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Brandon, checks in the mail buddy. Thanks for the plugs. I'm glad you all liked the article. I wrote that and didn't think I did justice to the event. But, if you can get a glimpse as to what goes into it I'm glad. We had a really awesome collection of jump pilots. Yes, I think most of us invision ourselves as being reincarnated WWII bomber pilots. We only got a taiste of that as there were only 14 planes. Can't imagine what hundreds of aircraft airborne at once was like. [chill down the spine] Then again, if we're reincarnated then I guess yes we can imagine that. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Paul, Roger ran on a ONE TERM ONLY platform in the previous election. And true to his word, even though many asked him to run again, he kept his word and did not run as a ND. Chris

Excellent news Dave. Remember, if you want to accomplish a goal "Failure is NOT an option." I had to pass my ATP, first type ride, first jet flight exam on the anniversary of the crash that killed 5 of my friends. So I know what it's all about. But you gotta do what you have to in order to deal with your life that won't stop. Chris

Heh. I didn't say I'd never done it, now did I?? Don't ask. Don't tell.

Say hello to Commander Ferrington if you see him there. Chris Schindler

Reflex. I've had it for 5 years now. Very comfortable. Easy to pack and close. Flaps stay closed in Freeflying. Ridden my reserve once on it. Quick deployment. Reserve pin is protected by being on your back rather than traditionally on the back of the rig. Chris

Can you guarantee that one of those freeflyers with a small canopy won't have a premature deployment? Search these forums a bit. You'll see story after story of premature deployments. They do happen. The only safe seperation is horizontal seperation. And if your goal is to get everyone out on one pass in an otter (can be done) then putting FF first is asking for a problem at some point. If you don't care how much Jet A you burn and could care less about go arounds on EVERY load then by all means, put FF first and give an appropriate amount of time for seperation considering all the winds aloft. Here's the deal with seperation and putting Flats first. When the pilot looks at the ground speed and figures how much drift there will be the count for seperation is passed back (or passed around). When the break comes from Flats to FF the same seperation count works. But if you reverse it under normal winds aloft conditions then you have to pay extra attention to the break between the last FF and the first Flat group much more. It will be a different count. Are they going to adhere to it? What if that first Flat group is a 10 way? On climb out someone accidently slips off. What will happen? Naturally the instinct is to GO and catch that jumper or give him a chance to catch back. You have now screwed any seperation plan you may have had. Doing it Flats first and the break comes from the last flat group to the first FF group if someone in the FF group falls off early there is MORE of a chance that the seperation will still be ok and safe. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

ROFLMAO!!!!! too funny man.....

Oh they do? I thought it had stopped for a time while I was there '88-'92. Very funny. And yes, Herpes....not herpies. doh. At freshman orientation they gave us a list of STDs possible as though it were a score card.

Oh yes....Mainland Highschool...."herpies high"......yah I remember it. LOL.

Yah, I'm even old enough to remember it. Is that a good thing?

Oh man....I was going to say too funny but it's about 21 people who died so maybe "ironicly true" is better. Yah, I heard them interview the former NTSB chairman and they were talking about how all airliners are under part 121 instead of some being part 135. One standard for scheduled airline travel. Chris

If the tail fell off 1) it wouldn't be with the rest of the debri (no report that it was by itself) 2) it would have caused the nose to go down, not up. Things to make the nose go up: Elevator trim not correct for takeoff, too much cargo in the aft hold (it was a full flight), pilot technique (over control), improper technique during engine out event, flight control problem yet not revealed, wake turbulence from previous departure. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030107X00026&key=1 NTSB Identification: DEN03FA028 accident occurred Sunday, December 29, 2002 at Steamboat Spgs, CO Aircraft:Piper PA-32-300, registration: N7989C Injuries: 1 Fatal, 3 Serious. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On December 29, 2002, at approximately 1300 mountain standard time, a Piper PA-32-300, N7989C, was destroyed following impact with terrain near Steamboat Springs, Colorado. The commercial pilot and two of his passengers were seriously injured; however, one passenger was fatally injured. The owner/pilot was operating the airplane under Title 14 CFR Part 91. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the personal cross-country flight that originated from Steamboat Springs Airport approximately 20 minutes before the accident. No flight plan had been filed, but family members said the airplane was destined for Canon City, Colorado. One of the passengers called emergency on 911, and reported that the airplane had crashed. Search and rescue efforts located the airplane at approximately 1600; the rescue of the three survivors was completed by 2100. The airplane came to rest inverted, and with both wings and empennage flight control surfaces separated from the aircraft. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Nice job.

I certainly second Jim Wallace. No doubt. Chris

Oh dude. No fair. Now I can't exit my apartment. My head is too swelled. Honestly, I am a product of my environment. I've had very good instructors since day one in flying and in flying jumpers. All of my flight instructors at Embry-Riddle '88-'92, Mark Hanson and Scott Corder at Horizon Skydiving Harrisonville, MO, Dave Snyder (rip), Roger Nelson, Mark Bourqhurst (Mr. Douglas), Mark Lamberson. I thank those guys very much. Chris

DOH!!! Sorry. Didn't mean to. Hey, if people want to cross over then that is their individual choice. But if the vast majority want DZs other than Perris, Eloy, SDC, and DeLand to be able to hold a Nationals event then sacrifices will be made. There are always trade offs. Me run for the BOD? Oh no. I have enough on my plate with my union and researching for my website. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125