weavermc

I could have sworn that each Tandem Manufacturer recommended not to do it, but i've spent the last 30 minutes searching RWS, Strong and USPA websites with no luck.... So I guess the above note about "safe" but not necessarily recommended answers the question of "is it allowed?" Blue Skies Weaves

Jump Shack Position on Head Down Tandems 5/6/1998 The Jump Shack, in response to a recently published letter concerning Head Down Tandem Skydiving takes the following position. We view Head Down Student Tandem the same as we would Head Down AFF. It is unnecessary and not in the best interest of giving the student an educational experience. However, we have no problem with two experienced skydivers performing this feat. We have evaluated the speeds at which this maneuver is executed and believe that they are well within the functional/structural range of our equipment. We have investigated reports of drogue damage and cannot substantiate them. We have received no drogues for repair from any customers and have supplied no replacement or repaired drogues to Skydive Hawaii. We strongly recommend that every precaution be taken if two experienced jumpers were to perform this feat. An opening shock at the speed of head down would be detrimental to the jumpers. However, we believe the equipment would take it. http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=TANDEM&PageID=TANDHEADDOWN&SortBy=TITLE_A

Sorry it took so long for me to get back on a computer --- but I just wanted to tell our community here that my negative attitude towards skydiving in Kansas has now been erased! I started this thread due to an unfortunate incident at a DZ in this state, and I thought everyone was as rude as the people I met there... however I was wrong. The folks at Kansas State Univ Parachute club are AWESOME. They are friendly, fun, and made me feel at home in.... something like 3 minutes! If anyone is going through this area (Kansas City - Topeka etc), I STRONGLY recommend you stop by and see these guys. Thanks again and hopefully weather will hold and I'll be there again this weekend! Weaves

I had a PRO-TRACK that had the LCD screen destroyed by a TANDEM Opening and they sent me a free replacement too - I agree with everyone else here - they have AWESOME customer service!

I stand corrected on that point...

To answer the question directed to me reference: Was I offered rental gear? The answer is no - but that is only 1/2 the story. The truth is, after I was treated the way I was, I instantly didn't want to be there. On the phone with my former DZO after leaving the DZ, I explained to him that I've never had to "force" myself to enjoy being at a DZ and I wasn't going to start now. In my mind, It would have been difficult to keep an open mind and be happy at a DZ that was so unfriendly. They didn't offer it because I was disgusted, tore up the waiver, tossed it on the counter, and left. Mark

ALL, as the original poster of this thread, I want to point out that Mr & Mrs Sharp (Skydive Kansas DZOs) have posted a reply in this forum under "Skydive Kansas" I thank everyone for your input and you have collectively increased my knowledge and given me some good points to ponder. I think it is safe to summarize that the majority of people that have posted agree to the following basic points: 1-DZs have the basic right to make whatever rules they want 2-Enforcing safety is a good idea 3-Limiting low-time jumpers from jumping high-wing-loaded canopies before proper training, experience, and sensible progression should be encouraged 4-Limiting the possibility of potential injuries due to high-speed canopy landings can be accomplished without inflexible rules. Mark Weaver

Mr/Mrs Sharp, thank you for finally responding to my comments/issues, albeit almost a week later. In the voicemail I left you, I did say I would not bring any of my business to your DZ, and I would be sure to tell anyone who asked me what I thought about your DZ, to include posting the info on here. I did, after thinking about it some more, rephrase my comments when I finally did post to tell you that I appreciate your commitment to safety, but I do stand by my original comments as I posted them, and they are basically that your treatment of me was rude, your information was NOT posted in any part of your website that I saw before coming to your DZ (and I spent a long time browsing your site), you NEVER mentioned the policy in the emails we exchanged when I told you i'd be in the area and offered my instructor skills to you, and I still think a 1.5 limit is excessive. Again I will reiterate that I am glad you regard safety as a top priority, but you still have a LOT to learn about customer service. I tore up my waiver because it was worthless, and I 'tossed' back on the counter - you make it sound like I threw it in your face. My original post has generated some interesting replies and I have learned from them. Some reinforce your policy and commitment, and some question some parts of it. If nothing else, I hope you learn to treat customers better since I have yet to see a reply or personal message (there have been many) that have talked about what a nice DZ you have... The personal messages all refer to how poorly you treat visiting jumpers - just something to think about. Thankfully, I'll be going back to friendly DZs in Texas soon, but in the meantime, I'll be giving my business, and that of my fellow military officers (Tandems) to Missouri River Skydivers and Skydive Kansas City - two places that already treat me better. My two cents dropped - too bad it had to be in an open forum since you wouldn't answer my phone calls or emails. Mark Weaver weavermc@hotmail.com

I was just backing up my earlier comment about why I jump a Cobalt 120 with an exit weight of 240lbs. I have a lot of jumps/experience and downsized slowly... Just wanted to show "the world" what I was talking about

Since I had some time to research, I found the link from ATAIR (maker of Cobalts) which shows that they recommend a slightly-higher-than-normal wing-loading due to its design. (Just in case anyone wants to see) http://www.extremefly.com/aerodynamics/faq.html#one

I want to thank everyone for their input. When I originated this post, I was wondering if "most" people out there agreed with my mindset - which is I wingload my canopy high, but I do so after slowly progressing to that level, and by maintaining a safe mentality when i'm under that canopy. I think maintaining a proactive approach to safety by DZs is a good idea, but I also think a drop-dead limit of 1.5 was excessive. (Nevermind how mad I was that the info wasn't posted on their website- but they've fixed that now) I invited the DZO to read these posts since they still refuse to answer my emails directly, so maybe they will see everyone's input and realize that implementing controls such as NO HOOK TURNS, mandatory landing patterns, and maybe mandatory safety briefings are "a way" to be safe and encourage more people to skydive with them. I know a DZ with similar safety rules (No hook turns etc) and we have been very lucky so far with injuries due to a concerted emphasis on safety. Please continue to post, and I am still curious if anyone else has seen similar restrictions. Thanks... Weaves (Mark)

Jethers, My home DZ is Skydive Temple in Salado, TX (Just north of Austin). It is a C-206/182 DZ with great people, a family atmosphere, and a DZO that truly cares about his people. He has brought me up right and helped me to slowly progress and get better in this sport... if you find yourself in Central TX stop on by, I guarantee you won't be sorry. Mark

I love you too Voodew - but be careful, i'll be home in a few weeks........... my time in purgatory is almost up!

Jethers, thank you for making me realize I am not the only crazy person out there that thinks this is a "little" strange. Everyone's posts here allow me to realize that I am not a crazed-lunatic skydiver, but merely a jumper who has progressed slowly and carefully to a point where I feel comfortable wing-loading a canopy DESIGNED to be heavily wing-loaded at 2.1... At least I'll be in Texas soon! Mark

I searched the website extensively before and after my trip, and the everything about the currency requirements was posted AFTER this weekend and after my email. At least this wont happen to someone else now.....

I called them afterwards and wrote a long email (neither of which was returned - more good customer service)... in those messages I applauded them for being safety-concious but thought that they could have incorporated a little flexibility into the policy. I was more peeved by them not posting the restriction on their website since I drove 1-1/2 hours to get there and even if I was jumping my original Sabre 150, I wouldn't have met their criteria.

I was denied permission to skydive at Skydive Kansas (Osage City, KS) last weekend because I wingload my Cobalt 120 at 2.1 I have 1400 jumps w/ Tandem, AFF, S/L, and PRO ratings and have made a slow transition from Sabre 150-135- Cobalt 120. None of my previous experiences or history was taken into consideration, I was just rudely told that I couldn't jump. (DZ policy is NO wing-loading over 1.5--which I would have violated on my Sabre 150 which I put 900 jumps on) I am wondering if anyone else has seen similar restrictions across the US as this is my first experience with it. (Please shoot a quick post if you have or have not seen similar restrictions to help satisfy my curiosity... ) Thanks Mark

Morning all. As a S/L, TAN, and AFF Instructor, I've spent a lot of time over the last few years with students, and wanted to reiterate some of the comments made on this post. First and foremost, I hope you had fun. I have been teaching for years simply to see that look of joy and excitement on a students face after they land (especially when compared to how they look right before exiting). Second - Video is invaluable on the first few jumps. As instructors we deal with a variety of people and EVERY jump is different. Although we'd like to think that we see every single minor detail in every skydive, the truth is during Levels 1-3, we spend a lot of time looking at everything 'just in case.' I can watch a student doing his dive flow in the air, but i'm also looking at leg position, adjusting my grip to feel any built-in turns, looking at the arch, head, arms etc etc etc, and of course, waiting for the student to make a simple mistake that potentially leads to a tumble/flip etc. Unfortunately, I may miss a small detail (like an altimeter check), which is why I rely on my assistant JM to help catch all the details... but once again - video is the catch-all that helps us and the student realize what 'really' happened. I can't count the number of times i've told a student 'how the skydive really went' and have them not believe something happened till they saw the video. Third (and finally) - Try not to get too frustrated during your early skydiving progression. Every jump you make will increase your comfort level and your appreciation will grow with leaps and bounds. One of the best ways to help this is to follow another person's advice and jump with absolutely every instructor/JM you can. Each instructor has a different personality and will emphasize different things allowing you learn with increasing bounds. Blue Skies and welcome to this awesome sport!