CCharger

Can someone clear something up for me? Kaye's research demonstrated that the money had to have arrived at Tena Bar within a year. Did it end up on in the sand within a year of the hijacking? Or within a year of its discovery?

Quote Nuttal? as in George Nuttal ? I think your mind is playing tricks on you. How about Abraham Lincoln? Nutella? Yum.

That's good info. Thanks. I think I am going to contact JC Penneys corporate and see if they have that info. Here is another good link regarding amphetamines circa 1971. http://blackpoppymag.wordpress.com/substances/dexedrine-dexamphetamine/

In light of the discussion regarding Benzedrine. Here is a link that talks about how ubiquitous it's use was in that time. It is fact that Coop had pills he said the pilots could use if tired. The only choices of stimulants in 1971 would be caffeine tablets like No Doz or amphetamines like Benzedrine. Gray and Smith both claim that it was Benzedrine. Therefore I conclude it was probably Benzedrine. Can I prove it? No. It is an educated guess, but a safe bet in my opinion. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/04/the-lost-world-of-benzedrine/255904/

I don't know why she would want to intimidate me. If she knew anything about me, she would know I am impossible to intimidate. I don't pretend to have all the answers. I am here to learn and exchange ideas in a civil manner. I will continue to do that regardless of what she thinks and says.

My opinion of you is based on yrs of dealing with individual trying to develope their own story - you are feeding on these guys - you are leading them around like they have rings in their noses. I have NOT read anything you have brought to the table that was you very own - you take their words and you LEAD them in the direction of the slaughter house. A lot of that has gone on for 18 yrs now and after a while you just start to read thur the wannabes and the writers looking for a story....they don't care if the facts are correct - they just want to tell a good story that get attention. They don't care about who gets hurt or if the crime is ever really solved. They pretend to be what they are not. They pretend to have knowledge they do not have. Opinions in this thread I hope are based on facts. You based - for instance - the drug on WHAT? YOU have NO evidence a certain drug is used - but, you go about this as though it is FACT and IT is NOT FACT and YOU cannot PROVE the STATEMENT. You take control of a subject like the drug and then you think you own it. You claimed it was FACT - prove it was FACT before you start to BUILD a story using it as FACT! Quote the reference from the FBI it was a specific drug. If that information came from BRUCE it is his own conjecture and not fact. Produce a statement from the FBI that specifically indicates the drug was used! Then you are at liberty to make the statement you did. Not everyone gets to talk to Curtis Eng and you might be talking to what I call a mouthpiece - but they actually have very little knowledge of the crime....they will answer NO questions. Curtis is not the only agent working the case at this time. Wow. Just...wow. Anyways...

I am not qualified to have an informed opinion of his claims. But I do know that the validity of handwriting analysis is dubious at best and worthless at worst. Also, his odd videos seem sketchy as well. It's been two months...where is the big announcement??

I think it's safe to say that you don't have any idea how much research I have done. You know nothing about me, nor my background in this case. Also, I totally respect the time, effort and ideas of the good people on this board. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. However, I am not going to go and read 1836 pages of this thread. I do find it ironic that you accuse me of "discounting anything other than what you and you alone want to propagate" when you have been accused by many others on this board of the very same thing. Lastly, I think if you look back at my recent posts you will see I have been nothing but polite, respectful of others opinions and insights, and eager to learn from the work of others while courteously offering my own opinions as well.

Interesting. Did JC Penney sell the tie/clip from all four manufacturer you discovered? Check out this link... http://greatvintagejewelrysite.blogspot.com/2012/09/mens-vintage-cufflinks-w-tie-clasp-gold.html

this would be with the assumption Cooper lived in this area correct? keep in mind the tie appears to have been used prior to this crime. Tie Tac holes are present in the tie prior to having the tie clip on it. how do we know he didn't fly into Portland under another name, or take a bus, hitchhike lol who knows......can we really assume he was from Portland/Vancouver? or do you have a different angle? What do you mean the Tie Tac holes are present prior to having the tie clip on it? You lost me. Here is my line of thinking...the crime began and ended in the Portland-Vancouver area. I think that is more than coincidence. I also don't think Coop bails out just anywhere. Too much chance for a man who appears to be meticulous about details IMO. He is going to jump into a location he is familiar with. Because of this I suspect he lived in the Por-Van area. Suspect, mind you. I have no proof or solid evidence. If this is so, it might be helpful to know the locations of JC Penney stores in the area. I know it could have been ordered via catalog, but... "What do you mean the Tie Tac holes are present prior to having the tie clip on it? You lost me." this should help you.... OK, but I don't think that affects my general theory on where he purchased it. That tie tac was only available at JC Penneys one year prior to the hijacking. I see what you're saying, but I fail to see how it is pertinent to anything. http://www.citizensleuths.com/tie-clip.html

this would be with the assumption Cooper lived in this area correct? keep in mind the tie appears to have been used prior to this crime. Tie Tac holes are present in the tie prior to having the tie clip on it. how do we know he didn't fly into Portland under another name, or take a bus, hitchhike lol who knows......can we really assume he was from Portland/Vancouver? or do you have a different angle? What do you mean the Tie Tac holes are present prior to having the tie clip on it? You lost me. Here is my line of thinking...the crime began and ended in the Portland-Vancouver area. I think that is more than coincidence. I also don't think Coop bails out just anywhere. Too much chance for a man who appears to be meticulous about details IMO. He is going to jump into a location he is familiar with. Because of this I suspect he lived in the Por-Van area. Suspect, mind you. I have no proof or solid evidence. If this is so, it might be helpful to know the locations of JC Penney stores in the area. I know it could have been ordered via catalog, but...

Quote Ich habe mich sehr amüsiert über all dies, warum sind Sie hier? Ich bin bei der Suche nach der Wahrheit investiert

mrshutter4, Thanks for that insight. Again, I think we delve into semantics when we talk about smoker, heavy smoker, or chain smoker. Perhaps, he wasn't a "chain smoker", but he certainly smoked a lot even relative to a time where smoking was far more popular and accepted. Also, I respectfully disagree with your assumption about him not knowing where he was going to jump. I think he knew precisely where he was jumping. Moreover, I think he was familiar with the area he was jumping into. The hijacking began in the Portland-Vancouver area and for all intents and purposes that is where it end. My feeling is Coop drove a short distance to the airport from his home and jumped into an area a short distance from his home. I just don't see Coop who had everything else so meticulously planned leap from a plane into an unknown location. You really think he would go through all that trouble just to leave it to chance where he would land? I don't. Here is a question specifically for any of you who lived in the Por-Van area in 1971. Where were the local JC Penneys? A quick search reveals 2 store locations in Vancouver and 2 in Portland, but all four were built AFTER 1971. So where was the closest Penneys in the Por-Van area in 1971?

I will not speak ill of the dead, but Earl Cossey doesn't strike me as reliable at all. I think his long assertion that he packed the chutes and is the FBI's expert on all things Coop is crap. There was the Amboy chute back in 2008. FBI dismissed it as Coop's on Cossey's word alone. WHAT IF COSSEY WAS WRONG? What if he lied? Or what if he didn't know at all and just pretended he did? Where is that Amboy chute now I wonder? Buried in a landfill?

Again, thanks. I disagree, however, with your comment that the weather was not important. Wind direction would certainly influence where Cooper landed (if his chute deployed). I was wondering if perhaps the easterly winds from the gorge might somehow have floated Coop to the west towards Tena Bar rather than to the north and east as most of the favorite Coop DZs are.

Anyone have any information on the winds that night? My research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please?

Jo, I don't understand why you act so spitefully. I have been nothing but polite and respectful to everyone's opinion here. I will continue to do that. I admit fully I have no agenda here. My opinions on the case continue to change and evolve the more I learn. Sadly, yours do not. I am not here to waste time getting into pissing matches with anyone. Therefore, I am no longer going to respond to any of your posts. I am going to disregard everything you say to me or about the Cooper case. The things you say do not come from a place of real curiosity or a true desire to piece together evidence. In my mind that makes, you irrelevant. As far as who I am? Also irrelevant. I will neither confirm nor deny that I am a member of law enforcement or if I have heretofore unreleased info about the case. That simply doesn't matter. With that said, it IS confirmed that the drug Coop carried was Benzedrine. The FBI has verbally confirmed it. You can also ask Bruce A. Smith. It was also included in Geoffrey Gray's book. Also, I think we can safely conclude that Coop was a heavy (chain) smoker. The two people in closest contact with him (the stewardesses) both described him as such. The other evidence I have already described in previous posts points in that direction as well. Can it be proven? No, of course not. Very little in this case can be proven. That is why it is an investigation. You take clues, try to piece them together and develop a logical, likely scenario. If more evidence is dug up that contradicts your hypothesis, you start over. You don't turn you back on the new evidence because it wrecks your own theory. Again, this is the last time I will respond to any of your posts, Jo. This forum has been hijacked itself, by people with no interest in solving the case, just seeking validation for their own theories come hell or high water. Facts be damned. That's a real shame. Hopefully, we can restore some civil dialogue and increase the amount of meaningful information being shared, and get away from the angry ALL CAPS, boldfaced yelling and name calling.

The amount of the money does not have any known significance beyond the fact that it was/is a lot of money and his means of attaching it to his person/parachute were somewhat limited. That amount of money would be equivalent to about one million dollars today. In my personal opinion, the work done by Tom Kaye and reported on his web page eliminates the possibility of the money coming down the Columbia River from any distance greater than a few hundred feet. Again in my personal opinion, Cooper was probably on the ground and dead less than a minute after separating from the aft stairs of the aircraft. He probably impacted on solid ground very near where the money was found. Also in my opinion, the money was in the process of moving INTO the Columbia River for the first time when it hung up in the sand. It was then exposed to flowing water, maybe from the Fazio property, for a sufficient time to accomplish the "torqueing" of one of the packets of bills as shown in Tom Kaye's analysis which is on his web page. In due time, sand covered the money and the Ingram's came along and found it. The money find location was several feet higher vertically in 1980 than what is now listed as the find location. Also, depending on the available information and GPS accuracy, the location could be off by 20 feet or more horizontally along the river's shore line. And maybe into the water itself as it now exists. But it wouldn't back up the steep slope on the Fazio property. Robert99 Awesome info. Thanks. However, in order for your theory to prove true, Coop must have splattered somewhere near Tena Bar. Do you disregard the accepted Vector 23 flight path? Also, how do you explain a mangled corpse attached to a billowing parachute and $200K not being discovered almost immediately on that part of the river? Not attacking, mind you, I am just curious how you come about your thoughts.

One thing I am curious about. The amount of $200,000. Does this haven any significance? Why not $250,000 or $500,000? How far would this have gone back then? Also, the money find on Tena Bar. There is severe erosion there. Is it possible it was buried near the shore and natural erosion or flooding would have washed it into the river?

Absolutely. I think the most interesting thing Coop said was, "I don't have a grudge against your airline, miss. I just have a grudge." A grudge against whom? Against what? He is motivated by something beyond money. That is why DB Cooper appeals to me and so many others. He wasn't just a common criminal. He was an Uncommon criminal.

I am a big believer in Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is usually the best one. The best evidence indicates it was Coop's tie from the moment of purchase and was worn by him frequently. Can anyone PROVE that? No. But there is more evidence favoring that than favoring the idea it wasn't. Therefore, I am going to assume that was his tie and was worn by him frequently.

This is from the website of the EPA... "Diseases of the lung (pleural diseases) have been associated with chronic (long-term) occupational exposure of titanium tetrachloride in titanium metal production workers. Chronic inhalation exposure may result in upper respiratory tract irritation, chronic bronchitis, cough, bronchoconstriction, wheezing, chemical pneumonitis, or pulmonary edema in humans." Clearly, we are making leaps here. But we know Coop had Benzedrine. We know Benzedrine is used to treat respiratory ailments. There is evidence that Coop worked around titanium, perhaps metal fabrication or production. Discolored fingers aside, perhaps, Coop was suffering from titanium exposure and was prescribed Benzedrine.

I think you may be on to something... We know that Benezedrine was used to treat bronchial ailments.... Here is what a quick internet search provided on yellow nail syndrome... "Approximately 40% will also have bronchiectasis (lung disease). It is also associated with chronic sinusitis and persistent coughing. And then it said this...wow! "There is some evidence it may be caused by titanium, either implanted for medical reasons or through eating various foods containing titanium dioxide. In patients where titanium exposure was thought to be causative, recovery occurred over a period of several months." This is a stretch...but perhaps due to Coop's exposure to titanium he acquired yellow nail syndrome that required treatment with Benzedrine?? Would love for someone to follow up... Here is a link with more info on this... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176400/

I can't remember where, but I remember seeing reference to a phone /communication device in the lavatory of a commercial plane. Does anyone know if this is true on a 727 or any commercial plane? Attached is a picture of what I think is a accurate layout of the Cooper plane. (found on the net) The interphone that connected the cockpit with the cabin was located just outside of the lavatory at the rear of the plane. You literally stepped out of the lavatory, and it was to your right. I'm not sure if Cooper being a smoker is relevant either. Someone asked for evidence of him being a smoker and I supplied it. However, it does help to build a profile of the man I believe. I do not have links to these particular sources. Bruce A. Smith provided some of them.

Well, we can quibble over semantics in terms of what is a "heavy" or "chain" smoker. 8 cigarettes in 5 hours seems a lot to me. Based on this and other evidence, we can conclude that DB Cooper smoked, and smoked a lot. The flight attendant (don't know which one) described Coop's fingers as being "discolored from tobacco smoke". This is common especially with very heavy smokers. I have attached a picture as an example. Lastly, the information on Coop "jumping up and down" comes from SA Carr who said that both stewardesses described this behavior and said he acted "child-like" when the money was delivered.