-Joey-

And you will never jump in Eloy. Why? Simple economics. For the same price at which I can buy skydiving at Eloy, I can buy skydiving with a side of freedom elsewhere. Skydiving is serious business

Still waiting for the kangaroo-loving mates down under to send me my helmet that's on order... at least you can find peace in knowing that during the lead time for the Cookie Fuel I'll get a lot more jumps under my belt before attempting to strap on the fatality-inducing deathtrap known as the Contour. While the wait time may reduce the risk you pose to others, the wait time likely won't impact your attitude. I once knew a guy like you that was "me, me, me" and "I'm pretty good at other sports, quit worrying about me and worry about yourself." That conversation took place perhaps 6 weeks before he killed someone else in a canopy collision. Don't worry, I'll make sure the 4 oz. black cylinder on my head won't cause any controllability issues with my canopy. Yeah yeah yeah I know what you're going to say next. "Oh, but you'll want to get that perfect shot of another canopy and you'll lose situational awareness blah blah blah" sorry mate, I'm not dumb enough to lose awareness just from knowing I have something on my head. Maybe others are, but that's between you and them

Hey I never said that. I just pointed out something about his word choice. Skydiving is serious business

Still waiting for the kangaroo-loving mates down under to send me my helmet that's on order... at least you can find peace in knowing that during the lead time for the Cookie Fuel I'll get a lot more jumps under my belt before attempting to strap on the fatality-inducing deathtrap known as the Contour. Skydiving is serious business

At least someone has a sense of humor. Skydiving is serious business

I wonder if your grandkids had known this is the stuff you would post, would they still have taught you how to use the computer... Skydiving is serious business

Technology won't come and go; technology is here to stay :) Best to embrace it, and not fear it. Skydiving is serious business

Nope, just calling attention to the use of the word "generation" - it just seemed like an interesting choice. I don't plan on jumping at Eloy, ever. Skydiving is serious business

Skycatcher, no amount of logic will convince people who have made up their minds about something based on irrational thinking. It is refreshing to see another poster demonstrating some common sense, but rational thought doesn't appear to be welcome here. The fact that after 7 pages, no statistical data validating the camera paranoia has yet to be provided, suggests that the camera paranoia may not be about safety at all. I've long suspected it has more to do with generational tension, which is evident by the frequent use of the word "kids" in reference to camera flyers. Interesting to note as well is Bryan Burke's use of the phrase "GoPro generation" in his Parachutist piece - interesting choice of words... Skydiving is serious business

Too much momentum transfer between the skydiver and the earth in too short of a time interval. Skydiving is serious business

I've met lots of them. All of Canada and many US DZ's set 50 jumps (or a B License) as their requirement for a camera which is perfectly reasonable. The overwhelming majority of jumpers who choose to wear them at this point do so with no incident at all. It's sad that there are people who, just because a very small minority of jumpers have had incidents (that may be) related to cameras, think they should restrict everyone else who hasn't had a problem. I don't believe in punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty, specially when the innocent vastly outnumber the guilty. Skydiving is serious business

It's not Icarus's job to police the world. It's their job to make and market quality products. Those who choose to buy them and choose to fly them are responsible for their own choices. Skydiving is serious business

Coinbase is legit, if you want to buy directly. If you want to buy on an open exchange, use mtgox. Skydiving is serious business

As far as actually getting the sight picture down, yeah I don't see how that could be done in the air. But I'm talking more about getting the general feel for a certain type of approach committed to muscle memory. But if you want to talk number of landings, riddle me this: Do you consider a 2100-jumper who has spent 100 jumps practicing front riser approaches more 'ready' to fly an HP wing than a 550-jumper who has spent 500 jumps practicing the same techniques? Skydiving is serious business

Well earlier this year, the market swings followed laughably predictable patterns. The exchange rate has stabilized quite a bit recently, though.

When you define the "bottom end" to be the last 15 seconds, then you do realize that saying it's 15 seconds is a tautology, right? All you've just said is "the last 15 seconds of a pattern lasts for 15 seconds." A canopy pilot can practice their landing skills at any altitude. Some jumpers (such as myself) spend their whole 3000+ feet of canopy altitude practicing riser turns and getting a feel for how they plane out coming out of a turn and taking note of altitude loss, etc. If someone does this for 500 jumps in a row, then guess what, they have a lot more "experience" than a 1,000-jumper who hasn't. Experience isn't synonymous with jump numbers. Who pissed in your frosted flakes this morning? Keep it civil; otherwise you sound like a bossy know-it-all who can't stand to have anyone disagree with you and think you have some kind of divine right to impose your will on others. Skydiving is serious business

The stats I pointed out were fatalities, so yeah, pretty sure they should be considered incidents Skydiving is serious business

I use it, but mainly to speculate. In fact, all the gear I bought this year I could afford because of what I made speculating bitcoin. Skydiving is serious business

Those are anecdotes, not statistics. Many them of them describe incidents where there is no evidence they were caused by the camera, the jumper just happened to have had a camera. Many of them are totally ridiculous non-events, like forgetting goggles. Who cares, I've jumped without goggles before, just a little more wind in the eyes. If you want to make a solid case, cut those down to real incidents (ie AAD fires, injuries, or deaths, not "omg I forgot my goggles!"), only those which were clearly caused by the camera, and then figure out the percentage of total incidents it comprises. I guarantee that percentage will be very low if not negligible. Skydiving is serious business

How about we keep personal chat to PM (For the record, no, I've never flown a GoPro) Skydiving is serious business

You created this thread asking for input. The majority of the people here voiced their opinions that this is a bad idea. If you didn't actually want to hear others' opinions, why did you create this thread? Skydiving is serious business

Please, let me know when/where you find scientifically valid statistical data in this sport, because I think a lot of us would be really interested in looking at it and using it.

You said you were a troll. You act like a troll. Your posts reek of troll. Ergo, you are a troll. Your troll sauce is weak. You over play your hand far too quick to effectively reel people in. And btw, it's not slander when it's written. It's libel. My posts in SC were troll posts (it's a political forum, what do you expect). My posts here are real discussion relevant to the topic. There is nothing wrong with anything I've posted in this thread. The OP advocated for a more hostile attitude toward camera jumpers with low jump numbers. I'm asking for evidence that shows such an attitude is warranted. Until that is shown, I disagree that it is warranted. Perfectly logical. The replies I've gotten have generally been one of the following 3 types of replies: 1. Anecdotal evidence (which is not scientifically valid satitistcal data) 2. Appeals to majority ("look at the number of people who disagree with you on this thread") which is an argumentative fallacy 3. Ad hominems / personal insults, which is another argumentative fallacy The one thing I asked for, data showing that a significant percentage of incidents have been caused directly by the presence of a camera, has yet to be provided. Sure, a few anecdotes of jumpers losing altitude awareness while trying to get that perfect shot have been provided, but data showing how often that happens compared to incidents like low turns hasn't, which leads me to believe it is an insignificant contributor to incidents as a whole and thus the hostility toward young camera jumpers is unwarranted. No trolling, just logic. Skydiving is serious business

As a USPA member and constituent, I would like to voice my opinion that I disagree with this idea. First, about jump numbers: different jumpers progress at different rates. Anyone who denies this denies reality. Someone who does 1000 fun jumps with regular vanilla landings on a rectangular canopy hasn't progressed nearly as much as someone with 500 jumps who has dedicated each jump to honing their canopy skills, progressing toward more advanced landings, and making sure every jump is a quality one. IMO jump numbers aren't a very reliable metric for determining skills or readiness to fly something. Just like someone who has spent 100 hours at the race track is much more qualified to get into a race car than someone who has spent 200 hours commuting to work. It wouldn't be right to punish the 500-jumper who has spent all their time honing their canopy skills and may well be perfectly ready for an x-brace just because other jumpers with similar or greater jump numbers (but much lower skills) have pounded in on them. If you're going to implement a new draconian canopy licensing system, at least make it about SKILLS, and skills alone, not jump numbers. TLDR version - it punishes the innocent for the crimes of the guilty, which should never be acceptable in any society / community. But the jump number issue aside, I think it's a bad idea all around, simply because we don't need more regulations and bureaucratic red tape than we already have. I think it would be more effective to promote a better culture of EDUCATION rather than a bunch of draconian restrictions and licensing systems that will cause a headache for everyone because of the actions of a few. Skydiving is serious business

Hopefully the mods will do something about people like you who falsely accuse others of trolling simply because they disagree with you on a particular topic. Slander is one thing that shouldn't be allowed on this forum. Skydiving is serious business