ChrisD

Here is another link that I don't know if you guys want or not, but rather than being silent here it is: D.J. Cockrell Another resource: AIAA The problem is since I retired, many of these sites I can't get into as an alumni. But that does mean perhaps some young buck in college can get to these sites via their student academic status. I don't want to be perceived here as a know it all, just sharing some experience, but many of these papers can be found by just asking the authors for them. It can be a real pain once they make it to some of the association sites. C Hope this helps? Let me know.

Here is a link if you don't have this already: http://www.aerodecelerator.org/PDF/Lingard.pdf C Or you could try e-mailing him here: Steve Lingard But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Thanks man! C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Jim, I do appreciate your efforts, I really do. But what your proposing is having forum where only the 6 people you have mentioned speak? You are free to start your own site, the six of you if you feel that is important enough to you??? Again, if ever anyone says something wrong or needs improvement this is the benefit, if the people take the time, to correct others. I guess it's all about how you do this? If you want to go thru a pile of posts and find something I have said incorrectly, you are free to do that and I welcome any corrections that you may find. But I too go to the experts to clarify and as a source of information. Including you! I think many should understand the consequences, and their are many here should heed that advice as well. Thank you for your time and effort, now ask me if I have gotten the message and how will you know?

From the guide: The consequences of a negligent or wrongful certification, which would permit an unqualified person to take the controls of an aircraft, can be serious for the public, for the Government, and for the Examiner. If the examination is cursory and the Examiner fails to find a disqualifying defect that should have been discovered in the course of a thorough and careful examination, a safety hazard may be created and the Examiner may bear the responsibility for the results of such action. Of equal concern is the situation in which an Examiner deliberately fails to report a disqualifying condition either observed in the course of the examination or otherwise known to exist. In this situation, both the applicant and the Examiner in completing the application and medical report form may be found to have committed a violation of Federal criminal law Alcoholism and DUI's are required to be reported. I am truly sorry that a few feel that they can endanger skydiving by continuing to support loopholes and irresponsible conduct. I am getting a lot of heat from a few individuals for speaking my mind, too you,... Deal with it. Because this is why this forum exists. I'm sorry that a few have resorted to flooding my other e-mail with spam and crap mail. To those that want to continue to have me act as a voice in bringing up difficult subjects and bear the wrath of a few, please use the PM feature here. But understand that skydiving is a small community with very vocal individuals that have no problem throwing you under the bus. I can not always guarantee your anonymity.you didn't recognize that this is a quote pulled from one of your wandering posts??? And no matter what, you still have done only one tandem and have lied many times about your "skydiving career. You are not qualified to comment on most things on this board If you want to prove I have lied to anyone, please justify your assumption with some real facts. I sleep well tonight because I haven't mislead anyone here. Other than much intentional tone and some outrageous sarcasm that I world hope is clearly visible. You on the other hand would be worthy of the William Randolph Hurst award.

Dude, you are free to think what you will, But I have more than one tandem. C It really doesn't matter does it? No one is interested in the message as much as roasting the victim. What wee are running into here is the fact that there is a stereotype that most skydivers are more educated. But what has happened over the last few years is that because of economic pressures and the solution was and continues to be Tandems to bail out underperforming Drop zones, the people that work, if you can call it work, don't have a lot going on in their lives. I am not saying that they are anything this or that I'm just stating a fact that Many, not all have little going for them in their lives. Making a living by giving tandem rides is all they have and when you confront some of their biases they actually don't understand some of the more complexities of skydiving and they just react. The reactions I am getting are not unexpected. There are many examples of this throughout history and in many human endeavors, it's kind of sad actually and I feel for many of these individuals that believe they have "outted" me or some of the other ignorant phrases that they are using at the moment. I can and at some point have pointed out that because of the promise of Dropzone.com many are not utilizing this forum to report anonymously some of the issues that plague skydiving. You can easily see that in our small community the witch hunt that ensues to enforce a common opinion, and this collective opinion doesn't support fun jumpers! But fun jumpers are the life blood of this sport. I want to point out to the many naysayers that it has not gone unnoticed that the argument of protecting newbies from "bad" information is once again being used, but if anyone wanted to amass some of the comments from the many supposed "EXPERT" s here, you will find thousands of examples of some really shitty advice. So this really begs the question about really defining what we mean who is and who isn't qualified to give advice. To those of you that know me personally, I can imagine the embarrassment of coming to my support at the moment, rest assured as we have spoken about many times I really don't give a shit about the messenger as opposed to the message, the increased coverage of many of these hard to understand topics is most welcome. Additionally I first viewed some of the efforts to drag me down as humorous, but at this point I only have compassion for them. And for the poor slob that many think is my solo tandem. Students especially have been victimized by regional politics and the business aspect of skydiving. The tandem subsidy issue has created a climate where students are not viewed with much other than as additional source of income and treated like cattle. And the many individuals that don't support their local established drop zone by participating in multiple outside tandem areas like skyride are actually devastating long established drop zones. I have serious issues with, a really nice person, like Tom when he undercuts long standing drop zones by starting up his own businesses within a local area for the sole purpose of hurting the established dz's that need the money to stay afloat and then showing up here and at the USPA. This is happening all across the country and their presence here is huge. Their sole objective is to create derision and confusion so that they may in fact operate outside of the USPA and governmental control. This is and will devastate the smaller drop zone. This is just one controversial subject where I need the anonymity to fight this trend! Many of you are unaware of the individuals here on DZ.com that you purportedly think of as authoritative in fact have very biased agendas! I have serious issues with the many private individuals that sell gear undercutting those that have brick and mortar stores and a much higher overhead. They continue to act in the best interest of themselves as compared with assisting newbies with gear purchases. In other words they advance their own agenda to an audience that is least able to make gear decisions, but are the biggest market. If I had my way newbies wouldn't be able to purchase gear, because of the fact that they just are the least qualified to make these important decisions. But when this point is raised the many gear sellers all point out it's a free country and each and everyone for themselves. If your a student reading this then be warned that because of this issue some individuals here have an agenda and they could give a rats ass if you make a good decision or not! The USPA is a member driven organization but when the vast majority here refuse to participate because of their agendas then our organization is subject to the voice of economics only because most don't give a shit what happens anyways. This has resulted in a really dismal public showing of what the USPA is really all about. There has been a dearth of appearances at the many AOPA airport open houses, the EAA doesn't bother with us at all anymore, the USPA hasn't had anyone at the many, many public events that promote general aviation across the globe. Demos to promote skydiving and local parades are at an all time low, participation at the many FAA public forums is non-existent as well as no lobbying, or perhaps better said almost no lobbying in Washington, etc, etc. And a whole host of other controversial issues that because of alliances that are not going to get discussed here.... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

So what is your point? Are you speaking about currency, I recognize the drop zone as Pepperell, they are open every day of the week, their tandem instructors are some of the most experienced in the business as well as some of the longest in the sport. C And a note to the mods, please leave ufk22's post here, If I have any say in the matter that is,....

Congratulations, many here including me are going to be envious of your purchase! Personally I might have tried on a few rigs so that you can actually experience all that the various manufacturers have to offer. Forgive me if you have already done this, I just am a little fuzzy about that point from the information you have provided, and that would be my recommendation if it's not too late. There are some differences in body types and some containers and this subject from reading multiple descriptions in the past seems to be a personal preference for many. I don't use a Curve at the moment but for me it was very comfortable and I did try a few on when I had the opportunity. C I do want to mention that many have their favorite brands and sometimes the reviews in the review section are from the manufacturers themselves, but given time many here are more than willing to help in any way they can. I suggest if you have a more specific question about particular features feel free to ask about them as well. Another concern is that many containers are new to the market and for most it is difficult to purchase two or more rigs. This means that it is difficult to make comparisons about equipment. And unlike Car and Driver or Consumer reports getting an unbiased comparison is difficult, just be aware of this....

From the guide: The consequences of a negligent or wrongful certification, which would permit an unqualified person to take the controls of an aircraft, can be serious for the public, for the Government, and for the Examiner. If the examination is cursory and the Examiner fails to find a disqualifying defect that should have been discovered in the course of a thorough and careful examination, a safety hazard may be created and the Examiner may bear the responsibility for the results of such action. Of equal concern is the situation in which an Examiner deliberately fails to report a disqualifying condition either observed in the course of the examination or otherwise known to exist. In this situation, both the applicant and the Examiner in completing the application and medical report form may be found to have committed a violation of Federal criminal law Alcoholism and DUI's are required to be reported. I am truly sorry that a few feel that they can endanger skydiving by continuing to support loopholes and irresponsible conduct. I am getting a lot of heat from a few individuals for speaking my mind, too you,... Deal with it. Because this is why this forum exists. I'm sorry that a few have resorted to flooding my other e-mail with spam and crap mail. To those that want to continue to have me act as a voice in bringing up difficult subjects and bear the wrath of a few, please use the PM feature here. But understand that skydiving is a small community with very vocal individuals that have no problem throwing you under the bus. I can not always guarantee your anonymity. But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

WHY? C Who or what gives you the right to demand anything? I'm detecting a little tone? Forgive me if I'm wrong? But why is that so important to you? But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

At least they "ask." On a personal note perhaps some one could enlighten me about the USPA. I have always thought that the USPA is us? Get enough "votes" and the organization moves in this direction or that direction. And ya there is going to be a minority that isn't happy, it's kind of the nature of a democratic organization. I personally like the idea of the USPA doing what it has to too protect skydiving, but when some just toss out suggestions about how to make this or that better, my first reaction is how are we going to pay for this? How could we implement it? I mean from an outsiders position I see lots of really great suggestions, but I'm not seeing how to make these suggestions happen. We have, good or bad, the Third class medical requirement, it is easy to implement because the onus and responsibility is upon those who need it. It really doesn't cost the USPA anything. But what is going to be the cost for the reduced requirement idea? Who is going to implement this? Yes I know this point of view frequently leads to the "self declaration" similar to the a-d declaration that exists, but I can't see this happening with tandems. If someone has a public relations campaign that they want to start to support some changes, and it makes sense for everyone, then put it on the table? Other than that, and I hope no one takes offence but acceptance of what we have doesn't seem so bad? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Thanks for the heads up Will. I hadn't noticed. This: "your posting style" "But at the moment the consensus seems to be that you don't know enough to be posting the way you are." So, again, If I have said something, anywhere here about something technical or some improper behavior, then please take the time to correct me. In the thread where I have done this, where it would be more relevant and so no one would have to jump around. So that everyone can fully understand all of the issues and complexities of giving advice on a public forum where my intentional agenda is to get people to think for themselves. Other than that I thank you for illustrating something that I have been trying to do for quite some time. You are one brave dude man! For taking the time to point out how tone and attitude can interfere with a message. You are also the first to attempt to say something like, and excuse me a bit if I put some words into your mouth, Can yo please try this or that when speaking to others so that people don't react to you as much as the content of what you have to say. The other points you have mentioned have been coved ad nausea-atium elsewhere. I try very hard to point out the audience when I get on my high horse. I always use different examples or make it clear when speaking with newbies as compared with chastising swoop'rs with mad skillz, does everyone do this? That's rhetorical, cause we all know this is a common concern that frequently gets lost in the shuffle.... As far as being called out, ya I'm surprised it has taken this long as well, being a dick to illustrate this point at my expense is a lot of work. And for the time being I'm going to go back to my old standby and ask WHY? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Thank you for your well thought out reply. I'm going to pull out some thoughts to illustrate what I'm trying to point out: ( on the "Hiding" subject.) "I'd listen to Booth over some Whuffo." "but a persons experience should be a factor in if you listen to them or not" "Everyone can have an opinion, but only people with qualifications to back the opinion up should be paid attention to." I get where your coming from, it's not the same as what is taking place here, and if you bear with me I hope you can see some of this. In each of your quotes above, You, Ron are making the choice. You said this: "...I'd Listen..." You in the first person, with your accumulated knowledge have made a choice. What happens when you leave out the words: Booth and Whuffo? Substitute x and y in your example, you don't have a clue who is who, now how do you make your choice? And yes a persons "experience" should be a factor, but who is doing the listening? You are! You are making the choice whether "if you listen to them or not" in this example you need a certain amount of knowledge to make your example work. Otherwise if you don't have the prior knowledge you can't tell what is good advice from bad advice. Or who is who, take away the prior knowledge and your right back to having to decide for yourself. And how do you decide? And the third: "Everyone can have an opinion, but only people with qualifications to back the opinion up should be paid attention to." Ron,... who decides who is and isn't qualified? You have given examples of some well known individuals and I understand your reasoning, and I am with ya, but your the one deciding who you listen to and who you don't listen to. Ron, try to take out all of the references and put yourself in the shoes of someone who hasn't a clue and then how do you make your decisions from their perspective? They are the ones that matter. Do you stop and ask them here on this forum if they are getting your message? This is a shift in thinking. It is hard and requires effort to actually understand if someone else gets it. It is easy to just sit back and make funny comments about things we don't understand. I want you to take special notice of the number of times other people make a comment about how someone else appears to be an "expert" and then their conduct is one of belittlement and ridicule. No one has undertaken the time to ask for clarifications nor made any statements about things like your stance is a little too arrogant too me and you appear to be an expert, but I don't understand the points your trying to make? Just what does it mean to act like an expert? What does it mean to be a know it all? If someone appears to be an arrogant prick and you don't like their tone, well help them along, tell them, cause the answer back might be something like "your the one with the problem?" Is how we perceive others the issue? Dropzone.com works because if someone is in a hurry, or has a lapse of memory, or doesn't give a complete answer another expert can jump in and help out! It falls apart when so many turn it into their private club and pick favorites at the expense of others. I count on this, I think you do as welll, as most do. No one is hiding here, but there are plenty of individuals that are not taking the time to fully explain themselves nor is anyone taking the time to present their point of view by presenting both sides of their arguments. Everyone here is an expert! No one is taking the time or making the effort to fully explain themselves. And understandably many are chastised for the amount of effort they do extend. I have seen hundreds of posts judged solely by the length and word count, exceed some certain value and it has become sport to make fun of those that do in fact take the time to give a thorough explanation. It is as if you are required to "tweet" if you have something to say and it exceeds 2 sentences, then screw you! This is the message I'm getting here and from many outsiders that want nothing to do with Dropzone.com I'll try to simplify all of this a little: In an environment where you can't tell who is qualified, what do you do? You listen to the message, and hope others either contribute to the message, expand upon it, help the person out, or make the corrections and at best explain so that every one can understand what is on the table. C I think if someone gives an "expert" opinion, perhaps everyone might get a more satisfying response if they concentrate on whatever topic is under discussion, and making points by clearing up any confusion or clarifying difficult concepts. You all have an opportunity to help others, in fact you have an unprecedented opportunity if you take the time. The message or the messenger? But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Then you won't be offended when I ask: if you can explain why this point is so important to you? How are opinion and qualifications related? The message or the messenger? Whilst I think I'm starting to get where you are coming from, not everything in the world needs to be referenced to a rule or a regulation or a quote from Wikipedia. Some of my take on this view would be something like if some small child came up to me and said that they saw something and they have this opinion as to how the world works. I can listen to what this child has to say. Or perhaps I can also say: "You are a small child, without a degree or any experience, so what you have to say isn't worth listening too." I guess I'm trying to point out how some people want others to back up their opinion. Some will listen and some want proof, but I'm not so sure everyone is on the same page here? Yo have basically made a statement that you want anyone to accept as fact because they can always back up what they have to say because they have qualifications? I don't know, nor do I care about your qualifications,

Anyone? I am actually sincerely interested in where this goes. C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

And seriously, how have I been outted as a phony?? The message or the messenger? All you have done other than some poor attempt to advance your agenda, which for the life of me I don't understand, is again to reinforce for a really large number of people, who refuse to have anything to do with Dropzone.com, is that the people here are bigoted control freaks. If you don't see it there way, there's always the highway. WE have a click here and either your in or your out and if we don't like ya then you can get the heck out? And just exactly what does this have to with currency? O'h and if someone talks "down" to me, don't bother asking that person to clarify their tone or help them with their writing,... I guess it's if you don't like my view point then get the heck out??? And what has this to do with currency or the source of advice, well I'll tell ya.... which is a little strange because this feels like I'm speaking to about a hundred or more people that all have fake profiles, exaggerated jump numbers and experience and phony stories. Which is fine, IMO. I really get a kick out of the "demands" from those individuals that seem to have a problem accepting someone else's viewpoints. The story goes something like this: "I want to know your history and qualifications." Now here is a gentle reminder that the answer could go something like this: 1. I am an experienced skydiver. 2. I am a student. 3. I put the P in parachute, been doing this for 45 years and own my own skydiving company. But I enjoy the anonymity that the creator of this site promised so that I or anyone can discuss controversial topics without repercussions, etc,.... Keeping in mind there are a couple thousand fake profiles HOW CAN ANYTHING ANYONE SAYS HERE BE REASURING TO ANYONE ELSE??? Ok, lets take this a little further so you fully understand this: Question: Are you a licensed skydiver? Answere: Yes. Have you proven anything? What is the point? Why do you ask? Did yo even bother to ask for some clarification of the content of anything even remotely relevant to the OP's original question? Why do I mention this here about currency? Because this thread is more than a little nebulous, the OP has raised a question concerning more about how other s perceive others than anyone's individual currency. If you want to do something to help with currency then you need the feedback from the individual but as long as some are more interested in their voice at the expense of listening, you will never hear what they have to say. Basically I hope I get the jist of the OP's point, help me out if you can, but I see this thread as about how to judge others??? And nothing to do with my or anyone else's idea of what it means to be current? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

THIS! I know this is tongue and cheek, at least I hope so. But you have set the stage to illustrate what I am trying to say about the business nature of skydiving. Ti's can no longer jest or make these kinds of comments. That's just the way it is. How the skyride industry is perceived is more important than ever. This isn't something that can be changed overnight when every one is under the impression that TI's need a medical because we need to something about their behavior. The public will be protected in a regulatory sense, that is already here, that there is a no better solution than having a Third class medical isn't debatable. It's like that cop show when the sleazy detective walks up to the innocent person and says something like: " If your innocent, you have nothing to hide, so just answer the questions." The implication is made, raise questions about someone's motives, or raise an issue by asking a question in a certain way. And then answer it like a jerk.? (

Can't say I blame ya,... but at least ya have a job and your alive and all of that.... have a good Holiday, good luck on your job prospects, hang in there Chris But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

It appears that is where the slider washer is sew in. Nice call, perhaps the other is in fact a patch, that area gets some wear. But what do I know I'm just a wuffo that doesn't jump. Perhaps Paul can shed some light on that area. I am especially pleased that you asked the question! I am concerned that no one else has given you an answere,.... I do wish everyone a merry Christmas, perhaps you could find it in your hearts to be a little more tolerant of other peoples varying ideas and religions, etc, not everyone see's the world as you do, and yes I could use some help following my own advice as well. Either that, or you all can just continue to do what you did 2000 years ago and put a few more nails in the cross, my birthday after all: Tommorro C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Hey could you clarify what your asking a little bit? I'm taken what your saying as having the USPA do more work, which is a fine idea BTW, but how can they do this? I mean how can they actually put this into practice? I have always herd from some of the regional Directors that the membership wants the Class Three to be separate. The added cost, the additional responsibility, and the political concession was that then the USPA doesn't have to play policeman. It would be nice if that someone who was actually there could comment. Cause I also heard that the dz owners want it this way to protect their own interests because and again a volunteer membership driven organization can't and is unwilling to ensure the public safety? This was a compromise acceptable to all??? My point with bringing up the whole medical issue was to get responsible feedback on the current state of affairs, I think we have all seen the response of a few TI's here who have yet again reinforced their ego's at everyone's expense. And I'm sorry but it's a business now, it happened a few years ago, you have to be responsible. Government is good at enacting legislation and rules and regulation, once they have it I really have never seen them let it go. Is self policing working? Or do we need to see a more rigorous medical in place for TI's? Such as a class II? Why and why not, and do we need to be a little proactive in supporting the current class III and making a stronger effort to rid the sport of those places that would even discuss the merits of licenses? Cause I have to tell ya, another old lady incident and it will be out of everyone's hands. According to some of the notes in the Federal Register and the FAA's own rhetoric a NPRM is only one incident away. This is my concern, either you can do some hand holding here or flame away or make some constructive comments that actually support skydiving. It's my opinion that on some of these issues the membership has been more reactive than proactive. And in my opinion we need to start focusing, much as AOPA does in actually protecting skydiving as compared to waiting for the next incident. Does this make sense? And if anyone has suggestions to help me express these ideas in less space or more eloquently so that the few don't want to lynch me because of my skin color, well I'm all ears. Matt you don't need my condescending approval of anything you say, but I do think the point of doing everything we can, however some may view this as an intrusion upon their personal freedom, as you point out is a direction that everyone needs a reminder of. For that I thank you, and if that means having copies of our medicals on our person, required or not, that might be a good thing. I want the FAA and everyone else to be happy, as you put it we should all be striving to keep those guys on our side! They, the FAA has a job to do, and I'm asking for suggestions on how to appease them for the continued benefit of skydiving. The stereotype of rogue TI's persists and I do believe we need some sort of plan to combat how we are being perceived. And on the other hand I am convinced they have something up their sleeves as far as the Class III is concerned. But perhaps I'm just being paranoid again??? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

You're so wrong. the source is exceptionally important. Hang around a bonfire or in a bar after hours and you'll hear some fucking TERRIBLE advice being given - particularly to low time jumpers who don't know any better by other low time jumpers who think they know everything. What you learn could very well be bullshit if you don't know any better... This Dude,...I'm trying to raise the bar to support what you just said! That being "If you don't know any better!" I have lived thru the day when the most fucking knowledgeable people on the DZ were getting into fistfights about three rings killing people. (As just one example.) Once you leave the door your on your own, the most and greatest source isn't worth shit at that point! C We have all seen terrible advice, we all have a desire to protect and to do the best we can. Your passion to do this is very apparent and most welcome. But many need to learn what is effective, what works and what doesn't. Generally if your perceiving something, then ask, attacking doesn't work it only causes people to react. If you have that burning feeling that you want to strangle someone perhaps rephrasing your comments, or try expressing your self in terms of: "this makes me feel this way" or "I have a concern that this could happen," or "could you expand on what your meaning is," Or "you sound a little like your lecturing again and can you rephrase what you have said for this or that reason." It may sound like I'm speaking to you and lecturing yoink, but mostly I am lecturing to the masses and or being perceived differently because we all come from different backgrounds. Ask, before jumping to conclusions. Of course the source is important. But how do you know the message has been received? How can you tell what some one else takes away from any source? You can have the best source in the world, giving the best advice anyone could hope to receive. And ya know what? It don't matter a shit if the person didn't get the message! And how do ya know that they got the message, this is what is missing,.... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I was just trying to point out the difference between who is actually required to have the piece of paper in their physical custody and or near in the actual aircraft and only aircrew are required to have it in their physical possession. There is a difference between having it in your pocket and as Dan is pointing out having it available for inspection. Or as is pointed out "must present it." Your concerns about Ti's running around without anything period are a major concern. As you point out "they " have it somewhere. And that is something that has been acceptable in the past. Again I was just quoting the specific regulation pertaining only to aircrew that explicitly specifies the actual physical location where the documents must be located. I agree wholeheartedly with what you are pointing out. But I hope this will continue for the vast majority of skydivers out there. The USPA being a member driven organization needs to be on the same page to support this as well as the same page as far as TI conduct. If you read the new publications from the FAA, anyone can see how some of the phraseology has changed. They have clearly taken a stand and changed the language used as far as AAD's. The new rhetoric clearly states that Tandem rigs MUST be equipped with them. They are rewriting stuff that clearly points this out. They do not take the stand that the USPA does and more than a few Dz's that AAD's are something that is to be left up to the manufacturer and or "waiver able." Other rhetoric is that they are pointing out the "increase in popularity of skydiving," "accepted bodies for regulations," and they have completely dropped the rhetoric about "self policing." Combine this with the activity of AOPA demanding that the medical regulations be relaxed, which they did, for certain classes of aircraft, this in a sense dilutes the value of a Class Three medical. I use the term dilutes in the Government sense in that they are required to protect the public. All we need is for many of these personal TI's that feel they know better or to keep dropping little old ladies out of their harnesses to prove to the FAA that the USPA cannot do what they promise, that self policing isn't working, and they will be required to step in and enforce regulation upon anyone and everyone at a DZ to protect the public. And it's not going to be some kind of USPA Member DZ suspension as DJ points out. This is clearly a case similar in nature to any skydiving incident. A skydiver can get wacked anywhere on the globe and the whole world knows about it within hours. It's hot copy for the news. An innocent tandem "Student" gets whacked and trust me The FAA, and a pile of agencies that need to justify their existence are waiting in the wings. Whether we like it or not the business nature of those individuals as compared with the club and volunteer nature of the history of skydiving has caught up with us. Many individuals for a multitude of reasons want to make money, it's a business now. We have in fact reaped what some have sown. So accept the fact that business have regulations that are going to be enforced! The problem is we still have a culture that from the TI's perspective is something much akin to the wild west in that they, the TI's can come and go as they please, regulations smegulations, and I can do what I want. All any one has to do is visit these pages and view the many varying opinions, the wineing about having to have a medical in the first place, and the lack of a recurrancy testing and or mechanism to ensure a drug free work environment and to insure the continuing proficiency of any individual TI and you can start to see just how effective one drunk TI can really do some serious damage to everyone. Every time someone argues the merits or the necessity of a medical they are making the FAA's argument for them. To our non-skydiving public, the FAA and the world for that matter this issue isn't something that is even debatable. Every time the subject comes up it's the same as thumbing your nose in their face. This is the point that so many here are missing, you can't have your cake and eat it too.... Tandem Instructors, should have annual EKG's, Drug testing and not drink alcohol period. They should be physically fit and prove they can manhandle an average 180 lb person. If they can't annually prove their physical prowess their tickets should be revoked. And this is just a few minimum requirements... How did ya like that? Cause that's how they think! And every time anyone argues otherwise, they are just reinforcing the governments position that the USPA cannot police themselves. C Obviously with this one,... some will take offense to tone or a perceived lecture. I am just being brief and no offense is intended to anyone, nor am I singling out any one individual. If someone or anyone cares to re-write my comments in an effort to reduce the perceived patriarchal attitude or perceived anger, they are free to give me some welcome assistance on my writing style. thanks But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Yes it did. But if for some reason yours feels funny or really has some pressure points, give it a couple of days before you return it. (If it does go back then the 50 bucks for postage is well spent, if you can't find someone else's to try on. Or you can order 2 different sizes and then return just the one as an idea??) They do kind of change after a bit. Not sure if it's just that you get used to it or what. But for the first few times it does feel a little funny putting it over your head. But you get used to that very quickly. I've also found the distortion to be less with the G3, but that has been an issue with some other helmets mostly in the past. And for the sake of clarity there really isn't much distortion in the first place, you would be hard pressed to notice. C I know you didn't ask this, but here's the answere anyways: What happens if I forget to put down my visor after I exit? Well you simply reach up, when you have a moment and put it down. It really is a non event!! Awsome hu? But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

We are not always talking down, weel sometimes I do, but not always.... Thanks for the reminder about how sensitive others can be when someone like a big dick like myself can be perceived wrongly. Apologies! C HEY Kelly Roy""""" Just curious, how come your askin? About how much it weighs? But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I'd recommend that you put this into action by actually practicing spotting. Your going to have to speak with the pilot, and finding the local dz owner is also a good idea. Perhaps they can let you practice on the provision that your first out or last out, so that you don't affect anyone else as an idea. You might have better luck with places that make multiple jump runs? Or traveling to a place like Eloy and seeing if the 206 is available, or for that matter any place that has a 206 / 182 and you offer to pick up some of the operating costs? Just some suggestions to take the many great ideas already mentioned and put them into practice! C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."