Cloudseeder

OH! And as for the full of shit comment, it may be that I am "full of shit" because I have made an honest attempt to swallow what you're feeding us... __________________________________________________ And I am so sorry for making such a crass comment amid skydivers!!! My most sincere apologies, Michelle. I mean what if we had been around the campfire and I let that comment slip? Not to make excuses but I can only state that I am not used to this forum. I should have replied; You ,Madame, are factually incorrect. I did answer Brians questions. I also provided him contact information if he would like to immediately direct my attention to his concerns. I also answered directly the inquiries of Tom Buchanan, Paul Quade and others.For you to state otherwise seems to be a character assasination or possibly ,as so often is the case with the ladies and occasionaly even the men, a sexual infatuation. In either case , Madame, I believe that you are factually incorrect. Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings Michelle, for you and yours, "Treetop"

QuoteFourth time, I think, Donn.... Why don't you put the statement up as you wrote it? As you stated that you don't trust me, If Iwas to post it would you trust me to post it exactly as submitted? But you trust USPA don't ya? LOL! Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings Michelle, for you and yours, "Treetop" PS. I don't have a misogynistic bone in my body!

Quote>And did you look at Our (not their) Governance Manual and confirm that there >is any section which compels them to edit a candidates statement in any way? Nope, in fact I am sure there is not, just as there is nothing there that compels them to put photography in each issue of skydiving. >Or is the fact that Larry says so enough for you? Why yes, it is, unless you come up with better evidence (i.e. post the part of the governance manual that says that they cannot fix misspelled words.) __________________________________________________ USPA Governance Manual Section 3-1.2.D.3.d. All statements by the candidates themselves will be printed exactly as they are submitted ... USPA Governance Manual Section 3-1.2.D.3.e Because of the significance of these biographic presentations , any deviation, however slight, from the requirements contained in this paragraph, such deviations necessary to meet printing production requirements, must be approved on an item-by-item basis by the Committee Chair. Any questions as to the Rules? "Treetop"

__________________________________________________ I do know something about English grammar , spelling ,and punctuation. I also know something of written political statements and how to write them for maximum effect. Again, I understand how best to use punctuation and capitalization for emphasis. I also know that my statement should have been presented to the Membership "exactly as submited". If you would like to see a copy of my original statement ask HQ. Get Involved! Ask Questions of Your Association! Get Answers and then consider whether or not those answers jive with what you know as fact! The fact is that no, USPA has no right to edit my statement in any way, regardless of what Larry Bagley may have told Bil Von. Another fact is that I notified HQ that my statement wasn't properly displayed to the Membership. The Executive Committee was notified by HQ prior to their meeting of this past weekend. My statement still has not been corrected on Our website. I believe this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Executive Committee is not concerned with following Our Rules of Governance. "Treetop"

__________________________________________________ You can take it as an indication that USPA hasn't been acting in good faith or by Our own Rules of Governance. This election or during the last election. How many elections are you willing to stand aside as they fragrantly violate OUR Rules? At what point will you stand up? When they come after you? "Treetop"

_________________________________________________ And did you look at Our (not their) Governance Manual and confirm that there is any section which compels them to edit a candidates statement in any way? How about any statement that compels them to correct any statement submitted by any Individual Member (such as in the letters section). Could you direct me as to where to find this "punctuation police" policy? Or is the fact that Larry says so enough for you? Thanks, "Treetop"

Please pay attention to details, dearest Treetop....deatils are very important, especially if you're intending to represent someone... [Stop laying on the floor laughing, darling Don...your mysogyny shows when you do that..... What is the true pity, I think, is the fact that you've missed a good opportunity to make your position more clear. __________________________________________________ Your so full of shit Michelle! You had previously stated that you didn't trust me. Why would that sentiment change? I ain't talked all that fast! Don't vote for me ! I couldn't care less!! The misogynist thing is a nice touch! I love all women. Yes even you! something for you to dream about! Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings Michelle, for you and yours, "Treetop"

I'm surprised at you, you normally do a little bit better research! Voluntary Courtesy Inspection Program. Ask some folks at the USPA about it and then ask how many DZs have ever had one. __________________________________________________ I do know a bit about the Voluntary Courtesy Inspection Program Mr . Quade! I just wasn't used to that acronym (VCIP). SO maybe I'm a dumb ass! Got any new news? LOFL! Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings, "Treetop"

Quote>If so you have acces to my candidates statement even if it was > edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance > Manual, but that's a whole 'nuther topic. In what ways was it edited? Did they change one of your all-caps paragraphs to properly capitalized text, or did they change the meaning of what you wrote? __________________________________________________ Mr. Von, Why does it matter how my Statement was edited? The rules are unambiguous and state that the candidates statements will be presented "exactly as submited". Exactly as submited , Mr Von! Those are the rules! If you realize that my statement was not presented to the Membership "exactly as submitted" you should be bouncing of the friggin' walls and askin' why was "Treetops" fuckin' statement edited? Why ? Why was "Trees" statement edited and who is responsible? Who allowed this violation of Our election rules? Not "well how was it edited?" Unless I woke up in Russia today. "Treetop"

QuoteDon -- I'll admit you've got some right thinking when it comes to the GM program and USPA VCIPs. __________________________________________________ LOL, Mr Quade, I don't know what VCIPs are.Hey I never said I was bright! __________________________________________________ That said, no matter how intelligent you may be, no matter how good your ideas are, no matter if you claim to represent the little guy or not, no matter how selfless you'll work -- nobody gets voted into office if they are perceived by the -majority- of the people as a trouble-maker and malcontent. __________________________________________________ Sounds to me like it will be the Memberships loss! I'll continue to fun jump! Interesting to me is your label "trouble-maker". The Truth is Mr. Quade , I'm in no position to "make trouble", I am only able to expose the trouble made by others. A major difference! "Treetop" Oh! PS! I'm with you Paul, I have no doubt that USPA will never allow me to serve as a BOD member... No matter how many rules they have to break.

QuoteHey, Cloudseeder... Nope, that was not HH's longest post, so no beer for you!

Now that is a great question. Obviously We need to supply the FAA with Data! The more the better! Did you realize Brian, that Mike Mullins has volunteered the lift aircraft to collect the data? Did you realize that Jessie Farington has volunteered the rigs for the experiments? We should take advantage of these voluntary resources and collect the data! Now some like Mr. Buchanan have legitimate concerns about the 180 day re-pack cycle. Mr Buchanans' main concern seems to center around external inspections of the rig between the120 day and the 180 day interval. I propose that We develop a standard procedure for an external inspection and require as an A Licence requirement that the student jumper demonstrate the skills to perform an external inspection of his/ her gear . I believe that if the FAA is provided data showing that reserves open just as well whether they are packed for 180 or 120 days, and they are also provided an assurance that all licensed skydivers understand how to perform an external inspection of their rig, They would be hard pressed not to comply with Our request for a 180 day repack cycle. If after providing all this info some FAA type doesn't want to play ball, I have an Ace up my sleeve. "Treetop'

Any time. While I was in your office I found that big can of BS you keep under your desk that you've been feeding people on rec.skydiving for as long as I can remember. It seems like you're trying to give us some of that over here as well. If you don't want the job (as you've now said many times), don't post, keep quiet, keep a low profile, nobody will know about you, nobody will vote for you, you won't be elected, you won't get the job, we'll all be better off and you'll be happier because you won't be doing something you really don't want to do. Either that or at least stand up and say, yes, I actually can and want to make a difference. Here's how I'm going to do it. Vote for me. You're either not being truthful and insulting our intelligence with a weak attempt at reverse psychology, or you're someone who really doesn't want to be on the board and therefor doesn't deserve to be elected. Which one is it? __________________________________________________ I wonder if that is the longest reply Sangrio has ever posted? Beer? Hey Honcho, would you be more inclined to vote for someone who wants a position on the BOD? Some one who would, lie, cheat,steal and sell their Momma to get there? Look, as I've I previously stated I am willing to *volunteer* to represent the Fun Jumpers by serving on the BOD. If I am elected I will give my all to fight for the Fun Jumpers best interests. There is no hidden agenda. I'm not a profiteer. Serving on the BOD will take up a large part of my fun time. I couldn't care less whether or not I'm elected. If you think I'll do a good job of representing theFun Jumpers, check the ballot. If you think that eight others will do a better job elect them. Either way it's no skin off my nose. I'm "Treetop" and I'll be skydiving regardless! It's just that simple! "Treetop" , the Fun Jumpers Candidate

QuoteQuoteWe (USPA) are in the red, can we afford to throw money away. Do away with the GM program and start keeping fun jumpers, jumping reply] __________________________________________________ This is the beauty of my plan Mr. Buchanan. The DZs will be srambling to one up each other. They'll be dying to be inspected and we'll finally have some meaningful criteria to evaluate them by! They wont be USPA Group Members but rather a USPA Inspected DropZone. The great part is that the inspection fee will equal the old GM Dues. Income loss to USPA will be small but the real information afforded the Members and students will be great! "Treetop"

Treetop---Nice improvement in tone, now, please bring it down even one notch further. __________________________________________________ Hey ,you know.. My freinds and I may sit around with our shirts off at my house sratching our nuts and screaming obscentities as we watch Monday night football. When we go to another buddies house where kids are running around we conduct ourselves very diferently. Snow problem! __________________________________________________ I'll answer your last question first because it was a bit antagonistic: No, I do not receive any income from The Ranch. I was on staff as an instructor for many years but no longer am. Now, I pay for my jumps, just like everybody else. I serve as S&TA in an unpaid position because I think somebody should do that, and after 20 years in the sport it is my way to give back. __________________________________________________ Kudos to you then Mr. Buchanan. I'm sure you are aware that you are a very strange beast. Unlike yesterdays, today the majority of S+TAs are either the DZO or an employee(subcontractor really )of the DZO. __________________________________________________ I'm snipping here Mr. Buchanan not as any insult , your statement obviously has merit, but for the sake of readability. I find that when a reply gets to long most don't suffer through. What I'm going to offer is my opinion on how the GM Program should be handled. You may not agree with my thoughts. First let me state that the GM Program in it's present form is often diametrically opposed to the best interests of the Skydivers. One example of this is the current requirement pushed through and supported by the GMs that any non-GM DZ wishing to provide an AFFCC is required to pay a fee of $400. This fee only serves to restrict the skydivers options as to an instructional course. If a non GM DZO decides to accomadate the needs of the local jumpers by providing an AFFCC he will be forced to charge the local jumpers some dollar amount more than what would customarily be charged at a GMDZ. I'm for the elimination of the present GM Program. The current program is not self funding. We Individual Members annualy ante up at least $40,000 to keep this program afloat. The GM program as it now stands does nothing to ensure that group members abide by any standard of safety. I don't believe that USPA can concurently serve the best interests of the Individual Members and the Group Members. I believe that the Group Members should form their own organization and it may require a bit of *tough love* by USPA booting them out of "Our Association" to get that ball rolling. Once We have divested ourselves of the Group Member Program I believe that the USPA DropZone Inspection program will be a valuable tool for the DZs to show that they do run a tight ship. I would be ameniable to a monthly listing in Parachutist of the names of all DZs which have passed the USPA inspection process. When issues come up through Congress or the FAA which would affect skydivers rights USPA should still be right there. If it's an airspace issue we would side with the DZs. If it's a mandatory AAD issue we should side against them. If it's over regulation of jump aircarft or pilots, again We should stand side to side with the DZOs. Yes, I believe that it is past time for the elimination of the Group Member program.I also believe that USPA can and should work together with a DropZone Owners organization to better serve Our Members, the skydivers. "Treetop"

[(I fixed the quotes and a typo for you. It'll be good for your campaign to appear polished. ~ sangiro) Thanks! Just one more request... As long as you are performing my secretarial duties would you mind slipping in to this negligee and these high heels as you strut around the office?

If you were actually motivated to represent the fun jumpers, then I would have hoped that you would care if you were elected or not. Hopefully you, as a voice of the fun jumper, would make it a priority to push for your platform and care very much if you were elected or not. I understand the point you were trying to make, the 'farmer turned president turned farmer' attitude that was previlant in the Federalist party in the late 1700's; however, that attitude is lost here, __________________________________________________ What? You must be a college kid! Why would I work hard for a position that I don't want? One where I gain no profit? No Dave, your thinking is skewed. Those who have a personal or profitary interest in a BOD position will work very hard to get elected. They'll even beg for your vote. I"m volunteering to represent the Fun Jumpers. Whether or not I get elected I'll still continue to do what I do, jump for fun. One thing that I can promise you is that if I am elected I will fight "Tooth and Nail" to protect my interests and the interests of My Fellow Fun Jumpers. __________________________________________________ You sir, do not have my vote. __________________________________________________ Look, I've not been Knighted yet . That's scheduled for this Wednesday so in the mean time remember that I'm not a sir. And use your ballot to elect those who you believe will best represent you. Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings Dave, for you and yours, "Treetop"

I knew you'd come around! Now hop on one leg, flap your arms like a chicken and bark like a dog! (I fixed the quotes and a typo for you. It'll be good for your campaign to appear polished. ~ sangiro)

__________________________________________________ Thanks for the support GQ but factually I was on a static line jump(The DZ didn't offer AFF) and landed flat on my back with 9 feet of southern pine in my hand!LOL! That was in '87 before most DZs used student radios(and at the stockmar airport!). Interesting that you can land dead on target everytime and no one calls you "Target Guy". Land n just one time though with a "treetop" in your hand and...

QuoteQuote Don, I assure you, I can think for myself, as can a vast majority of the other posters on these forums. The problem is that you haven't given us much of anything to think about. I know for a fact that you haven't stated your platform on this site because I have read all of your posts, and if you mentioned it on rec.skydiving, I must have missed it. ________________________________________________ Mr Indys, of all the candidates running for National Director ,how many have posted here or on rec? Have you recieved a copy of the November issue of Parachutist? If so you have acces to my candidates statement even if it was edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance Manual, but that's a whole 'nuther topic. Look, read my statement.You'll find that unlike other candidates I present my views as opposed to stating that I am all this and have done all that. Listen, I'm not here begging for anyones vote and I really could care less if I'm elected or not. I don't "want" to be on the Board. I'm volunteering to represent the Fun Jumpers .Simple as that. If I'm elected the BOD will lose a Member but the Fun Jumpers will gain a Representative. "Treetop"

I did my first Solo in a Cessna there. On a windy day.... I really didn't want to go because of the wind but Dodgie wouldn't let me back down. Dodgie and my Dad were friends for 40+ years. He swore till the day he died that those seeds were PLANTED man!!! I sort of don't doubt it but who knows? Well freeflier29, you and I have something in common, Each of us were lucky enough to meet the very best of humankind by meeting Dodgie Stockmar! What a guy!!!

[reply And rather than argue about what he's like, I'd encourage people to look at what he has posted in the past. His 'thesis statement' seems to be here. What? and My disclaimer is somehow a bad thing? LOFL! Yeah, I tell you not to believe anything I may post on the rec. or anything you read or hear without first confiming it with at least two other known credible sources and then consider it in your own mind!! MY GOD!!!! I'M ASKING PEOPLE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES!!!! "Treetop", how could you?!!!

I see your point, to a degree. I would like the USPA Drop zone affiliation standards to be much higher, but DZO's will not let that happen, so we are stuck with weak standards. But at least it is a standard, and a common collection of basic promises made to the student. A first jump student has no way of knowing if a DZ is safe or not, and an isolated fatality record by itself means nothing. You and I can evaluate all the parameters of safety, but a first jump student can't. An agreement to follow a national standard is about all students have. I should also point out that there have been DZ's dropped from the program, and others that have been denied affiliation because of a refusal to follow basic safety regulations. I'd like that to be a lot tougher, but again, at least it is something. Likewise, the government (Federal and State) rely on the commitments of the group member program, and that keeps regulations away. Without the group member program we would absolutely have tougher state regulation...I have talked to state aviation divisions all over the country about that. And, I also think we would have tougher Federal regs if we eliminated the very simple promises of group affiliation. - LOL! OK Mr. Buchanan, I've recieved numerous e-maisl asking me to post over here and the first thing I came across was your "spin" on the GM program. The fact is Mr. Buchanan, that a GM designation doesn't prove at all that any DZ is any safer than any other DZ. As a matter of fact all that USPA requires for a Group Member designation is a "pledge " to follow the BSRs and a valid bank check. There is no folow up to ensure that the group member is actually abiding by their pledge. Although USPA has spent considerable amount of dollars developing a DZ Inspection criteria and an evaluation process for hiring DZ Inspectors, The current DZO BOD haven't made this inspection mandatory for DZ Group member status . It has been left as a voluntary "service"! So far only one Group Member DZ has been inspected by the USPAs inspector. Why Mr. Buchanan, has the DropZone which employs you not requested an inspection? How do we know by the GM designation alone that your DZ is abiding by the BSRs? Hey Mr. Buchanan, here is a question I cant resist; Do you recieve any income from the Ranch? "Treetop" , The FunJumpersCandidate

Blue Sky is huge compared to Stockmar ! Now I'm not trying to one up you but factually, Blue Sky is about four times as large as the Stockmar airport. Did I mention that Stockmar has a large hill bisecting the airport? Did I mention the county road which used to intersect the runway? LOL! What some of you guys refer to as "Tight", ASC , Monroe , Blue Sky?.. Some of us see as *huge* landing areas! ""Treetop"

ROTFLMOL!!! Good one ,you got me Indys!