MarkBennett

Doesn't E. Vicki's dad have that chin characteristic? Why not show Mitchell a lineup of photos? Round up the usual suspects. 377 I would highly suspect he has already seen and made a call on any and all persons of interest If it turns out Mitchell says NO on all the favorites... you know what that means.. Can we all please dispel our personal feelings and just listen to what Mitchell says ?? he is putting us on the plane right next to Cooper He is used to getting attention from cute girls (not on this three hour flight ) Hell yes he is focused on Coopers appearance and we should be too Does anyone (Jo?) know where Mitchell lives now? It would be interesting to invite him to the symposium or Ariel if he still lives in the area.

Geez, Robert, pot meet kettle. I had a conversation on here with Bruce Smith and Mr. Shutter on the plausibility of Marla's story. But, that's not what you're saying. You're saying Marla doesn't believe her own story, that he father didn't tell her that her uncle was DB Cooper. She also knowingly peddled a false story to the FBI. Maybe her story isn't plausible. Maybe Marla thought she'd stumbled on the story of the century and it was too good to check. Speaking of too good to check, let's talk about Kenny. It now appears you didn't even do a rudimentary search of property records before stating your claims. Kenny moved from a cheap apartment to a cheap house. Half of it was paid for by assuming a mortgage. Who knows where the rest came from. Kenny was a man who had bought and owned real estate before. Then, there is the claim he lent $5000 to a single woman with three kids who somehow paid it back in two years. And $5000 in 1972 was a check of a lot more than it is today. And you claim witnesses say Kenny was involved but never get beyond words like Might or if. And, any time you're challenged, you point the finger back at Grey. So, tell me how are you any different than what you accuse Marla of being?

Bruce, I don't have a problem with Galen asking this question. However, did Galen (or anyone) see a problem with Ckret posting to DZ on company time? He was the agent assigned to the Cooper case and his plan was to get the public more involved in helping to finally (as 377 says), be able to say 100% of all skyjackings have been solved. It seems totally appropriate to me if he were posting here from work since it really is working on the case.

Robert, None of these quotes come close to implicating Kenny. It sounds like a woman, who after several days of being told Kenny might be the hijacker, finally giving in. Do you have any quote by Margie directly saying Kenny or Bernie committed the hijacking? All I see are quotes like this that say nothing of the sort.

Is there a story you can tell about why Ckret was sidelined? I never could learn what happened there.

Not ONE? So untrue Jo. Everybody here wants the mystery solved. We all have plenty of other things to do. If we are crime mystery junkies there are many unsolved cases to choose from. But Norjack is heroin for skydivers. The other cold cases are methadone. 377 I will confess, Jo, I was a little disappointed when they found the Amboy chute a few years ago. I thought they'd find bones under it and it would be less dramatic than I'd hoped. But, I would be delighted if any of the named suspects were found to be the hijacker -- including Duane.

*** Oh, you left off the part about the other witnesses. Some people did give descriptions on Cooper and they weren't stews. That isn't meant to be facetious. You did leave that off, though. I did leave off the other witnesses. My point was the other witnesses were in the same situation as you when you estimated the height of Brett Boone. It was trying to piece together after the fact a description that's more likely to be faulty. I was proposing that Tina, when she left the plane to retrieve the parachutes and money was instructed to make a note of the hijackers height, weight, hair, etc., and unlike the other witnesses would not be trying to put together a description from memory. The other passengers descriptions are not discounted, but I would give them less weight than Tina's, especially since hers was so close to that of Flo's, who would also be trained to make note of that information. By the way, the shortest description was "no more than 5'9". Kenny was 5'8". How far below that 5'9" are you willing to go?

I believe the museum posted a couple of days ago that Gray is not at the museum this week. I opened Skyjack to pages 90-92. The descriptions aren't that different. Flo says 6', black hair, black suit. Tina says 5'10 - 6', dark brown hair and suit. Those are close enough that two people could say that while they were both looking at him simultaneously. One other point -- Tina actually disembarked and talked to law enforcement (maybe FBI, but at least police) before bringing the money back aboard. They almost certainly asked her to make a note of his hair, his height, his eyes, distinguishing features, etc. She would not be trying to recall it later on. You have to put a lot weight on Tina's description.

***People went/still go missing all the time and in a large percentage of those cases nobody cares, and in some percentage people are glad see their missing vanish never to be seen again. Much later people usually wonder - whatever happened to - but by then its too late. That's interesting, Georger. I know one of the tacks the FBI took at the time was to check against any missing person reports. That still seems strange to me in this case. The person would have to stop showing up to work, and stop supporting a family. It seems if the hijacker were an educated person, he'd leave a hole somewhere. But, you're right...If a person had no family or close friends and quit a job and moved shortly before the hijacking maybe nobody would notice. That seems like a more uncommon than common situation, but that's just speculation on my part.

One other issue with the physical description -- and someone with a background with an airline might correct me -- I don't think the flight attendants were asked about the hijacker's description and they said 'Hmmm...let me think.". I assume they are trained to make note of height, weight, hair color, eye color, etc. As Chkret pointed out, the descriptions from Flo and Tina were very similar. Other descriptions were varied, but I don't think they can carry the same weight as those by Flo and Tina since the others were recollections after the fact -- much like RobertMBlevins first impressions of Brett Boone.

Good stuff, Mr. Shutter, Ask me to give a yes/no on any of the suspects, I'd probably vote "No" on all of them. I have problems with him dying in the jump as well. Was DB Cooper the kind of guy who would not have been missed if he had died? I don't think so. Plus, no parachute, no brief case and no body. If I had to guess, I'd have to say he made it. If he died in the jump, that brings us back to Mel Wilson, Vicki's dad. He was missing and he was a criminal. However, he was missing before the hijacking and he had a reason to be missing. I go back and forth -- I think there must be somebody new that hasn't been investigated, but is it really possible the true hijacker could have slipped through the cracks and either didn't tell anyone or died without being tied to the crime?

*** Mrshutter, I asked this question to the group that met at the Cooper exhibit a couple of weeks ago, so I open it to you or anyone else who wants to comment. All of the proposed suspects have flaws that might lead one to disqualify each of them. However, SOMEONE was DB Cooper. If you had to put a percentage guess (and this is just a guess), what are the chances DB Cooper is one of the already proposed suspects vs. being someone who hasn't even been identified yet?

Robert, I just don't see where you're going with this one. The admonishment does not state or imply that Ms. Ewalt profited or gained from the sale of the truck to her son. She sold it for blue book value. What she didn't do was get permission from the court to do that. Her punishment was deserved -- she should have been aware of that. But, the admonishment is more for sloppiness and the appearance of impropriety than malicious intent. That alone is enough for you to question where Ms. Ewalt cheated Ms. Geestman? Even if that were true, what does that have to do with the Cooper case? You've lost me on this one.

Does NPR give any indication of length? For instance, will it be a 30 minute report, or 5 minutes as part of a regular newscast. A really short segment won't be much help, since a good part of it would have to be devoted to describing the crime itself.

Robert, you lost me here...Are you saying it's ok for those 400 people to write filthy comments? I doubt you mean that. Are saying some governmental entity is preventing publication of Cooper info? I don't think you mean that either. So, I guess I just don't understand.

I don't believe you are missing anything. Kenny assumed the mortgage. That's pretty much black and white, no "speculation". However, purely based on the amount of tax and assuming a tax rate of 1% , it appears that the purchase price was somewhere in the neighborhood of 14000. Now if the rate was higher, then it is possible that the price was 7500. (the tax rate was 1 % in 60s and 1.78 percent in 2013). But that will be easily discerned once the documents arrive. Either way the final transfer of the property was contingent upon the satisfying of a mortgage and promissory note, and we know that at least 7500 of that was not paid off until the 90s. Like i said all this will be easily done and over with, one way or the other, once the documentation is posted. What is clear is that there is no documentation as of yet that shows that Kenny paid out large amounts of cash post hi-jacking - to anyone for anything. I'm not making an guess at the purchase price. I'm saying it could have been $14,000 or any other amount. But, that doesn't mean Kenny made up the difference between that and the mortgage in cash. He could have given the Grimes a promissory note for the difference. Even the other documents when they arrive won't show where that difference came from, if there is one, would there? I mean, as long as the promissory note was personal and not secured by the property, that is.

Smokin, You understand this better than I do. The last attached document posted for entry #47810 shows a document sent to Kenneth Christiansen dated July 23, 1990 and indicates the $7500 mortgage taken out by the Grimes on July 26 has been satisifed. I take that to mean that the Grimes took out the mortgage and Christiansen assumed it when he purchased the property and he paid it off in 1990. That seems to indicate pretty clearly to me that the Grimes house was not purchased for cash. Am I missing something here?

Thinking about the documents Robert posted on Kenny's house purchase, I started thinking more of it in this scenario. Kenny is currently living in a modest apartment. It's not a "crap" apartment -- it's a new building, but it certainly isn't luxury either. Meanwhile, the Geestman's friends, the Grimes, tell the Geestmans they'd like to sell their house, but with the Boeing bust, it's just very difficult. The Geestmans tell the Grimes that their friend Kenny might be interested, but his income isn't real high and might have difficulty getting a loan. Kenny is a single man, so he doesn't have the expenses of a family, and he's invested in real estate before, so he seems like a good candidate. Kenny says he's interested -- so the Grimes take out a $7500 assumable mortgage on their house. Kenny then buys the house from them, gives them some cash and maybe a promissory note for the rest (if the promissory note were personal only, it would not be recorded). And, Kenny is the owner of a home! This is certainly not a luxury home, but the type of home a person in Kenny's old apartment would buy as his first home. Sounds plausible. If this is true, then what makes Kenny a DB Cooper a suspect at all? I'm not being rhetorical. I'll even speculate myself. 1. He was missing during that weekend with Geestman. 2. Nobody (Bernie) will say what they're doing. 3. He had $5000 to lend to stranger. We've discussed this earlier on whether this amount might be incorrect, since it is not only unlikely Kenny would have that amount, it's also unlikely a single mother would be able to pay that back in 2 years. 4. Other people have speculated that Kenny (and Geestman) were involved in the hijacking. Reasons are unclear, but it appears to be a lot of finger pointing between a divorced couple. Again, my question is not how could Kenny be the hijacker. It is what makes him a suspect all? Because if he's not a suspect under that fact pattern, it has to be shown that the fact pattern is wrong.

It must be worth something more than that....Were 100% LTV mortgage notes available in 1972?

That could very well be right, but it also seems to be what happened on his home purchase. I think someone (Smokin99?) identified the parcel described in the document ("the west 80 feet...") as the house, not the adjoining land. The Grimes took out a $7500 mortgage in June 1972. Kenny bought the property from them in October 1972 and assumed the mortgage. He didn't pay of the mortgage for many years (1990). If that is correct, Kenny's house purchase was entirely consistent with the way her purchased the land in 1961. Am I reading those documents correctly?

I'll give you that, Mr. Shutter. The evidence Marla has is very sparse. So sparse we can't get very far with it. She's relying on memories from being eight years old as well as what her father told her fifteen years prior. Could they be way off? Sure they could. I've visited some of my childhood homes and was amazed how small they were. I don't think anyone takes so much time and effort to tell a story to the FBI if she did not believe it was true. That would be a crime. So, I think she believes the basics of her story. However, there are pieces of the story she can't know and is speculating on. What did LD land? What happened to the money? I don't think she'd be privy to those details. If she wasn't told that in 1995, I don't think she'll have much luck in finding out either. Of course, Marla believing what she remembers and whether it's accurate are two different things. The FBI used Marla's story as a starting point and presumably learned information from their own investigation that led them to believe L.D. was a promising suspect. My point is we don't know why the FBI thinks that. I can't buy that it was just based on Marla's word. You'll notice I'm writing a rebuttal to your post, but I'm really not disagreeing with anything you wrote. I guess I'm putting a lot of faith that the FBI has cooroborating information somewhere.

Bruce, Contacting Marla's family is a bit creepy, especially if the only motivation is to discredit her. I think Marla's story was not handled well on this forum. She had some memories as an eight year old. But, let's face it. Even if she were playing in the room and heard everything that was said planning a hijacking, an eight year old wouldn't understand the context and would think nothing of it. She remembers bits and pieces. Her real information, I think, comes from her father. As I understand it, as he was dying he reminded Marla to remember the hijacking and look into it. That was in 1995 and she didn't do much with it for 15 years. Finally, as she compiled her memories and talked to an Oklahoma police officer, she was able to get the attention of the FBI. That raised L.D. Cooper to the status of "possible suspect". That put him in a category with 1000 other people (I would say men, but Barb Dayton counts, too). The FBI investigated, located and talked to witnesses. It was then L.D. Cooper was designated a "promising lead". Marla's information got LD's foot in the door. It's the information the FBI found that makes him a good or bad suspect. What did the FBI find? Who knows? They won't say. Marla would know the line of questioning she was asked and we might be able to piece some of it together from that. But, she's said very little beyond a few interviews nor has she published anything. Many people here have a favored suspect for personal reasons. I don't doubt anyone's sincerity on what they believe. SOMEBODY had to be D.B. Cooper and I can't rule any of them out unless they have an airtight alibi. One issue I have with some (I'm thinking of RobertM, but not just him), is you think of evidence as links in a chain. If you can break one link, the whole case falls apart. I don't think that's right. I think of it as strands of a rope. It gets stronger the more evidence you have. Why does nobody in Marla's family corroborate her story? Well, none of them will dispute it either. As I understand it, only Marla and her father were outside when her uncles arrived. And, they didn't stay for Thanksgiving. Plus, some of her siblings were even younger than Marla was. Marla's is a great story -- just like most of the suspects are. We know little of the details, so we can't say L.D. is the likely suspect. But, the FBI had reason to not disqualify him and had a lot more information than any of us did. I'd like to try and find out what that is.

Robert, Was it NPR that asked you to not post about Kenny here for awhile? Your "good bye" post last weekend was kind of cryptic, but then you returned so quickly, I wondered if you thought better of the request.

I emailed Marla last weekend asking her if she'd consider posting again here when I thought Robert was leaving for awhile. She hasn't responded yet. Actually, I don't think Robert was the only person who drove her from the board. I think it was also people contacting her ex-husband, children and siblings. But, since a couple of years have passed, that might not be case any more. Even though the FBI mentioned L.D. specifically other than a few interviews, we know less about him than most of the other suspects and would have been interesting.

Page reference, please. I see a woman who doesn't want to believe her friend Kenny was involved and to protect him would point to her husband. I don't see anything definitive.