dthames

I did something very similar on student gear and I agree, that bit of extra time helps. To have your own canopy (in good condition), repeated practice with the same one, and a canopy that is forgiving makes a huge difference. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I think they're down to 50 now. I ran across their instruction manual online somewhere. One place it still says 80, one says 50. I asked someone at my home dropzone who has one, and she said it's 50 now. Maybe just go right to the source and ask Phoenix-fly!

That is pretty interesting to know someone has a lot of skydiving experience but the next jump will be the first on a ram air canopy. You could have a canopy coach talk you down on a radio like they do all first jump students. I would love to hear more of your story as you get back into the sport. I have seen several older prior military jumpers come to our DZ to do a FJC and a SL jump. It is great to see them back in the sky with a smile on their face. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

This is not an answer to your question but another noob approach to a similar question. Because of the way things happen at our DZ I am often faced with the choice to sit on the ground or go solo. My current sort term goals are, 1. Getting better at belly flying and getting my B 2. Tracking, I just love to track 3. Pre-freefly training (flying stable on my back) So I mix it up depending on how I feel and if I have to go solo or not. If I have to go solo I will often exit on my back, try to learn to stay stable on my back, then flip over to my belly when I get to spinning too much or at break off altitude. I might do a solo track and work on my form/distance/speed. Or I might practice the B check dive maneuvers. I will find some way to create a challenge and see if I can learn something on each jump. But I also find something fun that I want to do and include that in most jumps. Changing up the exit is fun for me, as well. Everyone says, you need to be having fun. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I visited San Marcos the for the first time, Labor Day weekend. I agree it is a very nice place. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I have used my Flysight for fall rate training. I have a less than good arch and to be able to listen to the tone and work to go faster was almost a natural thing. Great for tracking as well. No, they are not paying me. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I posted a URL to the duck cartoons, but it was some of her later work. Go back to when the duck was in AFF. http://tailotherat.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-09-30T09:07:00-07:00&max-results=20&start=16&by-date=false Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I had loud noise type hearing damage since I was 15 years old. I am sensitive to loud noise and freefall noise is very distracting for me. WITH my instructor's approval I have worn them on most jumps since jump 2. I also have a lot of practice listening while wearing them. I could hear the chest strap mounted radio just fine. But we did test it and I was very aware that I needed to be focused on listening. Note: I tried to put a finger up in the helmet and pop them out for the canopy flight but doing so was not easy and messing with them a bigger distraction then just leaving them in. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

Those mixed feelings are not uncommon at all, early on. Why do I want to do this? Is this a good idea? My money might be better spent some other way? What is really the point? The door opens and you jump out. For a few seconds it all makes sense. Then later, the confusion takes over again. Find the threads by Namowal and look at her cartoons. She sums it up well. http://tailotherat.blogspot.com/ Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I think I determined that some of the student rigs that I jumped had different flares even though the canopy was the same model and size. It was very late in my student program that I started seeing the trend that on some days I PLFed everything and other days they were nice landings (wind included). I was very content to just PLF because I considered it a very safe thing to do. I almost could never arrest the vertical decent of the student rig. I just got into the habit of falling down. More than once an instructor told me I could have stood it up. I told him it was not one of my a landing priorities. (sort of a joke but true) I just stuck it out until I had my own rig. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

It's pretty easy, you have to admit, to roll the shoulders either way. I totally agree with this, and since most people's problem with tracking is that they don't push hard enough on the air, I recommend palms down. JohnMitchell, do you mean that many could slow their vertical speed more with better use of their hands in a track? I am trying to understand exactly what you are saying and how to evaluate it. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

Do you mean get more aggressive with your angle right at the beginning? On that third jump I never got to the max horz speed. I had to start slowing down, find the DZ, and get ready to pull. The curve never did flatten out at the peak. Late in the track something good happened. I think I got more rigid in my legs and feet. The flight was very smooth and just felt right. Pops, you make me blush. I am just trying to study how all of this works. Besides it gives me something to mess with during the week. I do wish you could convince my back that I am young. The data was collected with the Flysight GPS unit. I also had it set in Glide Ratio mode and was using the audio feedback to help me adjust my flight. The graphs and ground track image are from the Flysight viewer. http://pyrodan.privatedata.com/skydive/tracking/tracking-data-sept-1-3.pdf Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

Here you go. Jump 3 in this file, http://pyrodan.privatedata.com/skydive/tracking/tracking-data-sept-1-3.pdf. Notice the nice ramp on the horizontal velocity. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

If anyone is interested, here is some data from 2 jumps this past weekend. I am on the bottem end of the learning curve, but each jump I was learning. The dive plan is to exit, turn 90 degrees to the jump run, track hard for about 30 seconds, then ease up a bit. These first 2 jumps I didn't get a full 90 degrees but later I made adjustments and did better. http://pyrodan.privatedata.com/skydive/tracking/tracking-data-sept-1-2.pdf Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I would say I have no specific technique but looking at two specific log files, I see about 17-18 seconds of steady acceleration. In one case the horz speed dropped because of a turn. In the other case it dropped because of breakoff alt. I will have to go back and do more test and push it hard from the beginning in a straight line to learn any more. And I still can't control my body to the degree to do a really good job. About tracking distance like breaking off from a RW jump, adding up the numbers I got the following distances covered verses time. Take note that I already had a speed of near 10 MPH, so this is slanted. Actual distance from relitive zero speed would be worse still. Total distance traveled after specific timeframe.... After 1 second, 16 feet After 2 second, 43 feet After 3 second, 79 feet After 4 second, 125 feet After 5 second, 179 feet After 6 second, 239 feet Here is something all can laugh at. Exit, turn west (toward right wingtip) and track. Somehow I managed to get the general direction correct in spite of getting spun. http://youtu.be/BNRiZ_rfwqw Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I am not looking to track a lot further on an RW jump but I do want to know if someone says, break at 4500 and pull at 3500, I wan to know if that will allow me to track X number of feet. If I know that I will come up way short on the tracking distance, then that is valuable information. Take a look at the attached file. I was ready to track and flying above a friend with a camera. I had my legs on my butt trying to hold position with him. It could be the wind or my flying but I was going about 10 MPH (horz velocity) when I started the track. It took about 3 seconds to get up to 20 MPH. Whatever distance I traveled in those 3 seconds, it might be doubled by holding the track for just another 1 or 1.5 seconds. Breaking 500 feet higher and holding the track for a bit longer might help weaker trackers by giving them 2 more seconds to track. 2 seconds don't sound like much but once you are moving, it is a big piece of your overall distance. As you can see, the velocity increase it a pretty steady slope, up. I had to stop when I did because of mother earth. I had not reached full horz speed when I stopped. The Flysight has a tone system you can set for Horz speed, Vert speed, or Glide ratio. So, the "dialing it in", is to know some theory, adapt to the feedback from the tones, while in flight. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

Sundevil, Thanks "flat" relative to the group make much more sense. I was thinking more relative to the earth or 3D flight. John Mitchell, I have been logging GPS data with a FlySight and even with my homemade tracking pants I have yet to get 1:1. I got 0.92 on one jump. It should not be a surprise but interia appears to be a factor. I am talking beyond normal separation type tracking, but max performance type tracks. Even if you can track hard and fast, getting that mass moving (your butt) horizontally takes time and energy. When I get my skills up a bit more, I want to work on short tracking for separation and see what adding a little time to separation tracking will do. Everyone knows you will go further (of course). But I want to see if 6 seconds would make a small or a large difference over 4 seconds. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

Sundevil...... Are you saying that type persond in a tracking position would then fall faster, but they might not have much drive.....less "flat" than someone with more drive. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

Since I made the original post on this thread, I have been doing some tracking work and studying in the field (air). The idea of a “flat” track must have some meaning that I don’t get. If you go 100 feet forward for each 1000 feet down, would that be a “flat” track? I have been using a rather aggressive angle to get the best forward to down ratio, which is the most efficient use of the altitude. Wearing a tee-shirt and homemade inflating pants I got up to 108 MPH horizontal while I was falling at about 120 MPH vertical. The Flysight data said the glide angle was 0.92 at the peak. That was about 45 degrees into the wind. Not sure how much wind was up there. From 13,500 down to about 4500 where I started putting on the brakes for deployment, I covered 1.4 miles according to the GPS data. I plan to later go back to found the best 5 second track like one might use for a formation dive. The goal would be to find the most effective way to get distance within 5 seconds and about 1000 feet of altitude. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I recall a book about test pilots where a test was done with a C-130 to determine if this type of a maneuver (reverse thrust) would work for emergency decent. I don’t recall specifics but I think it had some hairy moments and made it into the book as noteworthy. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I get out of it, what I put into it. If I am not having fun, I am not properly applying myself. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I do a lot of solo jumps, as it is often the only way to get several jumps in one day. (C-182 with students or a tandem). I have done several jumps with the goal to fly stable on my back, legs 90 at hips, 90ish at the knees. I exit facing the rear with the relitive wind on my back and fly down the hill like that. Then try to be stable at terminal. I normally spin once at terminal. It often gets out of hand and I have to go to my belly. But is fun for a solo. There was a page in the Parachutist in this position about 2 issues ago. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

I have posted this before but I will repeat it for you. When I did my second release AFF jump, wobbled around, flipped over, and was held by the instructor the rest of the jump, I considered how well I had done. I concluded this, “I could do that 4 more times and still not get it, or pass the level”. That was after 7, 2 minute turns in the wind tunnel with an AFF instructor, that is also a wind tunnel coach. So, I was not learning what I needed. I paid $180 to have some go beside me and hold me while I tried to learn to be stable. You can’t learn very well if someone is hanging on you. How many $180 jumps could I afford? I quit AFF. When I learned to ride a bicycle, I pushed off, went on a slight downhill grade, trying to balance and peddle. I would fall, try again, get a bit further, try again, and after a while, I could go a little way before I fell. Then a bit more and finally some success. Static line or IAD training is much like that. Start with 5 seconds. Once you master 5, go for 10. I did, 3x5 2x10 1x15 1x20 Then cleared for solo practice to the top. Those were $75 each, not $180. The first 4 or 5 of those jumps were, exit stable, count, don’t fight it and make yourself flip….pull. I was turning slowly and rocking around, but I didn’t flip. On my second 10 second jump, I felt like I had a little control. The next jump I was told 10 seconds. But if you are stable and on heading (original aircraft heading) then take it to 15 seconds. I exited and started a slow turn to the left that I was afraid to try to reverse. I let it go a full 360 and was back on aircraft heading and stable at 10 seconds. I then went 5 more and pulled. My arch was not much better than it was when I quit AFF. But, I could FLY….well, sort of. The following jumps were Turns, recovery from being unstable (flips), and from that point my only real problem is that I fall a bit slow. If you have problems with AFF, ask about IAD or Static Line options. It is cheaper and puts more of the learning in your hands. Dan Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

Yes, you are getting to the good part. Those first few free falls are very memorable. Great to hear you are making progress. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

There is not really a compensating for a shallow arch. It slows your fall rate. It reduces your stability in the neutral position. Couple that and not really relaxing as a beginner, and you can wobble and rock around. If you then fight that, you are unstable. Learn to arch the best you can, learn to relax, and then things start getting better. But you still have to learn to balance on a column of air and if you are flat, it is harder to learn. I don’t feel like I have any issues now, other than I don’t have a wide range of free fall speed control with a deep arch. I am still trying to learn my range and still working to improve that. As someone else stated, a lot of it is in your hips. So being able to thrust your pelvis forward, meaning good flexibility in your leg/hip (in the backwards direction) helps. I went to the wind tunnel while I was trying to learn to be stable. I still couldn’t get it, even in the tunnel. The coach told me because the wind was not as smooth in the tunnel as in free fall, and that it was actually harder to learn in the tunnel than in free fall. I equate it to learning how to ride a bicycle. It is not something that someone can teach you. You just have to learn it. Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”