Manuel1

That is not true, it depends on many factors and 20 feet is not some magical number... It is just an accepted standard. Why SCUBA dive or skydive at all? That is right. They are standards based off of models and experiance. Why violiate them? You can SCUBA and skydive using proper standards to midigate the risky sports. I very seriously doubt that one can survive 33' of depth on 100% o2 with out injuries or death. So why advocate it?

Quote> I'd be much more concerned about fire risk . . . This, I think, is one of the biggest unanticipated risks of O2 usage in aircraft. O2 systems are often difficult and awkward to turn off (i.e. the ones under the Otter seats) - turning them off during, say, an electrical fire might be very difficult. And at the flow rates many skydivers use them at, they could turn a smoking wire into a disaster.[/reply o2 isnt flammable. Look on the labels and it will be a class2 (non flammable). It is an oxidizer and can enhance a burn. You dont hear too much on o2 fires. Personally, I would be worried about Hypoxia. Not DCS or non flammable gases.

you can breathe 100% O2 @ 1atm for well over 24 hours. It's not a concern for skydivers. I'd be much more concerned about fire risk, or the biggest, not keeping it sealed up. If you are a certified scuba diver, you should ask your training agency for your money back. The military and science divers (NOAA) are trained not to exceed a 1.6PPo2 limit. Recreational divers are trained to not exceed 1.4 limits. At 100% o2 at 19 feet, you will be at a 1.6 PPo2 limit and at a much higher risk of oxtox. The US Navy, years ago used a 2.1 PPo2 and with invent of the doppler and thier high incident rate of oxtox, they rethought thier dive charts.

The DCS is manifested with the sudden change of pressure. One may noitce the sympthoms as much as 24 hours later. The military, science and medical communites disagrees on many aspects of DCS. Hell, they cant even on what the proper terms should be called (DCS, AGE, DCI) Even the predisposed factors suchs as body mass (fat tissure) tempurature, age, injuries and time at depth or altitude all are factors that increase injuries,but everybody has a different rate of o2 saturation and DCS predisposed factors. There ar no asbolutes in DCS. Once you take a hit, you are proven to be more predisposed for future DCS hits. The conversation was Halo with a cannual or a rebreather, not prebrething o2 and my point was that the rebreathers or cannual are not a good ideas. Now hypoxia should be discussed.

jsut like SCUBA diving, cept at altitude rather than depth Yep. Both are caused by depressurization. Scuba -> during the ascent from depth. Skydiving -> during the ride to altitude. Same concept. SCUBA divers develop DCS and AGE while skydivers develop aeroembolis. The big difference is that the skydiver will experiance immeditate relief after returning to the earths normal atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psi, while the scuba diver will experiance a relief of DCE/AGE case through a decompression chamber only. A cannula delivers only around 2-3 litres of O2 while a full face mask delivers 100% of O2. It should be around 4 hours of o2 saturation (breathing 100% o2) before you off load enough nitrogen, not 30 minutes. And then there is OXTOX (oxygen posioning) that you have to worry about also when you are saturating your self with 100% o2. Scuba divers are not able to breath 100% o2 below 20 feet of depth or they will oxtox and drown. This conversation sounds like on another board that I am on (deco stop). Whoever can go the deepest is the coolest . I say, why go down to 300 fsw? Why do a jump at 30,000 AGL?

There's the problem right there. When you challenge them on it, of course they're going to say that they would like to do it, because otherwise they figure you'll think they're a wimp. So quit trying to talk people into it. If the subject comes up, answer questions, describe how much you love it, whatever. But don't be pushy about trying to convince other people to join you. This just hit the nail on the head. I had a buddy that kept pushing me to go skydiving together to experiance it for the both of us for the first time. He had set up a date several times and a day or before the date to jump, he would cancel on me. I convinced myself that I really wanted to just try it just to say I experianced it. Once I did my tadem, I went right to the office and signed up for the course. I did a static jump that afternoon after completing my ground school. I now have 15 jumps and still counting.

I was thinking more along the lines of comparing skydiving to fishing. there are way more fishing deaths per year than skydiving. So fishing is more macho

Living fearlessly is not the same thing as never being afraid. It's good to be afraid occasionally. Fear is a great teacher Fear is the enemy of logic. Quote by FRANK SINATRA

you usually get road rash on where the road meets the body.

Oh trust me skydiving gear is NOTHING compared to paintball gear at the end of the day. leave that stuff in the car for a few hours and id rather walk home than smell that stuff. let them get a whiff of some gear after a tourney, theyll never complain again. i PROMISE You wanna smell something bad. Try a wet suit from SCUBA diving when you silted out inside of a wreck on a hot day. Nothing like neoprene drying out with fish poop and who knows what else in your wet suit.

He has a helmet on?? If you think that leather will keep the road rash off you if you go down, you got another thing coming. I been in three bike accidents and two of them I had leather on (no skid plates). The road rash was still there.

Damn, I love this sport. Lots of beer and now eight ways.....

That is funny. Yeah. There was NEVER a second thought of not buying the beer. I would really hate to have someone remember me NOT buying a round when I am wobbling around at 12000 AGL.

It was just posted in another thread but here are the generally accepted beer rules. http://www.skydiving.org.vt.edu/goodstuff/beer.htm Exactly. At first I thought it was just the guys and gals at the DZ I am jumping at. And then I read the "beer rules" on here and thought, HOLY CRAP, they all drink copious amount of beer. I was taught it is rude to buy a round and not drink what your buying. I guess I'll have to put my big boy pants on and have a beer then......

Okay. I am almost off student statis. I was told to buy beer when I am done with my student statis. I will hopefully be done with my A license in the spring. I was told to buy beer. I will be purchasing a rig in the summer. I was told to buy beer. Am I even allowed to skydive if I dont drink beer?? I love the sport, but come on guys and gals, it isnt really that scarey of a sport that I need to drink that much. I wonder how many AA meetings are held at the DZ's.

Just as a follow up on my previous post, my O2 supplier just delivered 4 bottles of O2 for the 30,000' jumps we have scheduled this weekend. I had ordered 4 bottles of Aviator Breathing Oxygen but he had only 3 bottles on the truck so he asked if it was OK to give me 1 bottle of Medical Oxygen "as it was exactly the same and came out of the same hose". Of course, I said OK. As a practical matter, oxygen suppliers make sure that their oxygen always meet the highest standard so that they can use it interchaneably in all their bottles, regardless of the end use. It does not make economic sense for them to use different standards. As medical o2 is safe for a breathing gas, I would be leary of what a driver or counter person says about gas mixtures. I just had a driver deliver me a argon mix (c02/argon) for my stainless steel welding shop and the driver said it is the same gas as 100% argon which is what I ordered. They are not the same gases and WONT work on SS. The biggest thing you want to be careful from the medical o2 and the aviation o2 is the moisture content. Just from the o2 flowing through the flowmeters could cause the gas to condense and could crystalize. The aviation o2 gases are hyper-filtered.

- too true hey.... I understood the entire progression from jump number 0... Same here. I have a written outline of what is expected on each jump along with the altitude of that jump. Also in my log book my instructor puts in what is next along with a one on one talk with on what is going to be covered on the following jump and how I did on the previous jump.

I found this in from one of my heliox classes on mixed breathing gases. Grade E o2 gas is 24ppm dew point and Grade G (aviation o2) is 7 ppm dew point. So there IS a moisture content difference, or I should rephrase this by saying there SHOULD be a difference if the gases is being tested and properly filtered. Parts Per Million/ Dew Point Gas Standard or Test Result 24 ppm/-65 °F Allowed maximum for CGA G-7.1 Grade "E" 7 ppm/-81 °F Allowed maximum for mil-spec Aviators Breathing Oxygen (ABO), a reasonable benchmark for acceptable H2O content in breathing gases for SCUBA diving. Less than 7 ppm/-81 °F Test results for Fill Express gases Note that whereas the difference between 24 ppm H2O and 7 ppm H2O may be significant to SCUBA equipment, it's extremely unlikely that humans can detect a difference during respiration. Regardless of the precise water content, any compressed breathing gas for SCUBA is going to seem very dry when inspired from the second stage of a SCUBA regulator.

It would be interesting to see if they would fill your o2 bottle from thier bulk welding o2 whip hose? If THEY would be willing to take that liabilty. There are so many regulations on breathing gases. The NFPA 1500 (fire dept scba) the CGA 67.1, USN air L-1 standards, the Federal spec BB-1034 codes. Keep in mind on moisture content that as the temperature decreases, the gas ablilities to hold water as a vapor decreases. When the breathing gas reaches the dew point temp, water vapor condenses into a liquid or if the temp is low enough it crystalizes. Even the diabolitic of the gas moving from the storage bottle through the smaller passages of the flow meters will cause a crystalized effect.

I am very new to this sport. 9 jumps this month so far, so I dont have much more experiance than you do. But I had thought the same thing you did on what to look for in the DZ that I would be trusting my life in. I first googled DZ's in my area and found feedbacks (on this site) on the two DZ's that I was looking at. I was confused as to what program to pick, either the AFF or the static progression program. I visisted both DZ's and watched the staff on how they interacted with the clients and each other. I observed the cleaniness of the business. If the instructors had a rapport with the clients and each other. I watched the flow of how everything clicked together to see if it was organized. Any obvious safety concerns to a lay persons perspective. I then started to ask questions of the staff and my intentions. The differences in the two programs. Any written training outlines that I could look over. The "total cost" of the training program. Long term cost such as purchasing my own gear, cost to jump after the training program. Safety records. Aircraft maintenance. Pilots certifications. Instructors certifications. And both DZ's seemed very proud of their business and was glad to answer all of questions without any hesitations. I really like both DZ's was my problem and had a hard time deciding. They both seemed to be well run business. My biggest conflict was which program did I want to enter for my training. I am having a blast. This is such a fun sport and I am meeting some really amazing folks so fars.

BOC gases was purchased by the Linde group which owns Airgas a while back. All of the BOC that I dealt with is now AirGas. Have you tried to purchase a welder grade o2 from Airgas with a medical grade bottle? OR are you purchasing a welders grade o2 in a welders bottle and "whipping" it into a medical grade bottle?.. All o2 IS NOT identical. PLEASE dont promote this thought. This is very bad advise.

No such thing as "scuba O2". The "standard" air fills is just compressed air. If you get a air fill for ice diving, it is hyper filtered and at least a grade E if you mix the gases such as Nitrox mixes. I have not found any company using anything less than a grade E for a breathing gas. I talked with my Airgas rep today and they will not fill a medical or a scuba tank with welding O2. He just laughed and asked why would you want to do that. As far as moisture content, o2 is a dry gas within itself. it is a oxidizer (it isnt flammable) for pure o2 wont burn. I will breath a standard compressed air fill (21% o2 and 78% nitrogen) and my mouth is very dry. I can breath a 40% o2 mix and my mouth is no less dry. It is just a dry gas. But make no mistake, it does have moisture in it and it can crystalize. I had it happen to me several times. Why try to purchase a welding gas to sustain life. That just dont make sense to me.

There are actually 7 grades of oxygen. You dont really want to use welding O2 for breathing gases. Not so much the moisture content, but the purity level. Do a hydro on a steel welding tank and they usually have to be tumbled to get clean. I do a lot of cold water scuba diving and I use at least a grade E of oxygen for limiting my free flows. The USP grade system starts at 99.0 purity. So the difference isnt really all that much. However, when it comes to sustaining life, I am going to use the recommended grade. If you need a perscription for medical O2 all that I do is see my family doctor and he gives me a perscription. Airgas here in Ohio just wants to see a ARC O2 admin card on file.