Robert99

Basically, there is not sufficient information available to make a meaningful detailed calculation of this. So what follows here is the analytical equivalent of "hammer and tong engineering". During the FBI test flights, it is reported that one of the USAF parachutists did in fact walk to the bottom of the stairs. As he walked down the stairs he would also be moving toward the rear of the aircraft. This movement would cause a slight NOSE UP moment for the aircraft. The amount of this increase in moment depends on his distance from the center of gravity of the aircraft. As the aft stairs move downward, the aerodynamic force on the stairs can be resolved into two components. The component parallel to the fuselage reference line is the increase in drag. This force will be quite small compared to the overall drag of the aircraft which is probably already well in excess of 10,000 pounds. This drag force component will probably be below the center of gravity of the aircraft and will cause a slight NOSE DOWN moment for the aircraft. The vertical component of the aerodynamic force on the stairs will be up and will also cause a slight NOSE DOWN moment for the aircraft. Even with someone standing on the bottom of the stairs, where the wind chill factor is about 30 to 40 degrees below zero, the effect on the overall performance of a 727 is going to be slight and may not even be noticeable if the aircraft is on autopilot or being hand flown in even mild turbulence. We need to address a remark made by Rataczak that when Cooper jumped and the aft stairs slammed close it caused enough of a disturbance that his headset almost came off. It should be noted that the flight crew had been told by the FAA Chief Psychologist that Cooper would probably blow up the aircraft when he jumped. With this cheering news, when the stairs slammed into the fuselage and created a pressure disturbance in the cockpit as well as a lot of noise, I suggest that all four people in that cockpit did a lot of jumping thinking that the bomb had gone off.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SUGGEST THAT COOPER HAD ANY ACTUAL PARACHUTE JUMPING EXPERIENCE. He said he didn't need the brochure on how to use a parachute. That means only that he knew how to put on a parachute and had a one minute briefing on how to use it. The briefing for passengers on how to use a parachute was essentially just: "Jump out of the airplane, count to 10, and then pull the ripcord." No more, no less.

My post from 2011 that you quote is self-explanatory. Cooper was simply looking for two skydiver type rigs as they were widely known in 1971. Again, "front and back" was not a military term or even a civilian skydiver term in the 1971 time frame.

Nicholas, Georger, and Ollemiss are absolutely correct. "Fronts and Backs" is NOT military jargon. I have never heard that term uttered by a paratrooper or military free fall parachutist. And backpack, seatpack, and quick attach rigs, where only the harness is worn, were always described by a single word - parachutes. This thread, like a number of others on this site, is a waste of time.

Everyone needs to pay attention to what Olemiss is saying. First, on the matter of the 302's. The agent doing the interview may not have any experience in the specific subject that is being discussed. And the person being interviewed may have only very limited knowledge of the subject. The terminology they use will probably not be the terminology that an expert in the subject would use. So don't try to make a Federal case out of the semantics. Just try to understand what they are talking about. An experienced interviewer will probably approach a vital point from several different directions to make sure he understands what the subject is saying. Second, Olemiss is certainly correct in saying that the present day parachute terminology is not the same as the 1971 or prior terminology. Finally, it appears that Cooper did have some parachute experience but not necessarily as a skydiver. There is no evidence that Tina had ever seen a parachute before much less touched one.

If my memory is correct, Cooper cut about 90 feet of cord from the risers of the reserve parachute that was left behind. This is not enough cord to securely tie the money bag and also have a "drag" bag option. Also, it would not be a good idea for Cooper to tie things around his waist. He should tie them to the parachute harness. Otherwise, if he has a 10-g parachute opening shock he is going to be looking for a Chiropractor as soon as he lands. NOTE: I will make every effort to respond to FlyJack's post number 65625 this weekend. He has asked valid questions and they require a lot of writing which I don't have time to do immediately.

You are relatively new to this site so here is the sad news for you. Those of us who have been here 15 years or so have seen the same recycling of nonsense dozens and dozens of times. It has become basically a site for debating, or just plain arguing, without any real interest by some posters in solving the hijacking. Some of the debaters probably don't even know which end of an airplane takes off first. It has probably been several years since any meaningful progress has been made here relative to the hijacking. Sorry.

Olemiss, when will your book be published. I'll be very happy to buy one of the first copies.

Oh, Georger! Haven't I mentioned this to you, other posters on this thread, and everyone else on the planet, for about the last 15 years that Cooper had to land as a no-pull in a very restricted area near Tena Bar for the money to get to where it was found. The details of the above were last posted here within the last few weeks.

You are wrong. The wind would keep the stairs up. If anyone jumped from the 727 aft stairs at 325 MPH they would have to crawl through a relatively small opening at the end of the stairs.

Cooper obviously had aeronautical experience and should have known that the airflow would keep the stairs from descending very much under their own weight. Nevertheless, within minutes of Tina going to the cockpit he was calling about not being able to get the stairs opened. Exactly what his problem was is not known but presumably Tina taught him enough to get the stairs unlocked. So from about 7:45 PM until he jumped at about 8:11 PM Cooper was occupied with getting the money bag tied to himself and disposing of the brief case and whatever else he would not need in the jump. He may have had to walk down past the stairs hinge point to create enough space to get rid of those items. And he may have had to crawl down the stairs to create an opening big enough for him to jump. So he may have had some new experiences in just getting out of the aircraft.

My understanding is that the aft stairs were removed for serious Air America drops and that a metallic slide was installed down to the bottom of the fuselage. So jumpers and cargo just slid out the bottom of the fuselage. I am not aware of any information on the flap position at the time of the jump, but my guess is that it was still at 15 degrees, and the airspeed was still in the neighborhood of 225 MPH.

OleMiss is right. The airliner really did have to slow down. The NWA performance group in Minneapolis told the crew to fly at an Indicated Air Speed of 170 Knots to achieve the best range for the aircraft configuration that Cooper specified. At 10,000 feet pressure altitude with the existing temperature, that 170 KIAS becomes 195 Knots True Air Speed. And that 195 KTAS is 225 MPH. Considering the construction of the aft fuselage of the 727, it is unlikely that Cooper could stand upright or even close to it once he was past the stairs hinge point.

That is not entirely correct. Quite a few of those records were not actually lost. They were recoverable from other sources that were not in the fire. This means that there was more than one copy of many of those records and they were not in St. Louis or the fire. For instance, do you remember carbon paper? The military thrives on duplicate copies.

You seem to be unaware that the fingerprints taken by the military eventually end up at the FBI. The FBI used to be the agency that did background checks on military personnel, and they would need those fingerprints to do those checks. As a personal example, my fingerprints have probably been in the FBI data base since I was about 16 years old. I had to submit a complete fingerprint card in order to fly on military aircraft. While the card was initially submitted to the military, it almost certainly ended up at the FBI. In that time frame, fingerprints were about the only way to positively identify victims of aircraft accidents.