davelepka

Let's face it, you're question was 'who's going to be first', so if all you wanted was an answer, this would be a two-post thread and it would be over. Your question, then the first guy to give it up, end of story. Ditto for swooping. You had to know that was going to come up when you asked such a question.

Your welcome, but I did also ask a question, and I'd like to hear your answer. Why don't you quit jumping due to the all the deaths in the sport? People die skydiving, so why not give it up and ensure that you won't be killed on a skydive?

That's true, but to what end? Stop jumping all together? I've managed to survive jumping small canopies and swooping. There are jumpers who have done the same for longer and through more jumps than I have. The point is that it's possible. Why does anyone fly a plane more complicated than a trainer? They're light, forgiving, easy to handle, and can land almost anywhere. Picutre it, you have an engine out in a Cessna 150, and you land it safely in a baseball filed. Same scenario in a Caravan, which needs a lot more space to land, and will do so at a much higher speed with a more kinetic energy. You would haul right across the baseball field, and into the (and through) the school building next to it. So again I ask, why fly anything more than a 150? It's the same reason I want to fly a faster canopy and do more than a straight in approach. With proper training and experience it can be done safely. People have limitations, and sometimes finding them is a rough road to follow. The fact that swooping and small canopies is risky business is widely known in the world of skydiving, so people know what they're getting into. If they want to be so foolish with their lives that they ignore that, and don't seek out training and build experience before building speed, I don't think there's anything we can do about that. All of the anti-swooping or anti-small canopy arguments are about as hypocritcal as could be. Each one of you jumps out of a plane on a regualr basis (or used to) even though you knew people died doing the very same thing, including people who did everything right and still met their fate wearing a rig. None of you quit jumping on that basis, so to point at the swoopers and cry out that they're taking too many risks isn't going to 'fly'.

Do you see how the above statement can be applied to skydiving in general? Why do you keep jumping? It's riskier than not jumping? Your answer is the same as why I keep swooping. Really? You mean to tell me that people, with proper experience and training, could safely drink and drive? They could drink and drive with such persicion that you could hold competitions with strict rules, and the competitors would be able to turn in consistant repeat performances comp after comp, with all the top scores within just a few points of each other? Swoopers can turn in that sort of performance, you think a drunk driver could do the same? Here's the facts - most people who swoop manage to do so without incident. There are 1000's of jumpers out there (maybe more) with 1000's of incident-free swoops each to their credit. The point is that it can be done safely, provided the jumper has the right training and experience. Take the old-school batwing suits from the days of yore. Very few people managed to jump them and live, so they were rightfully outlawed by the powers that be. It was proving to be a problem with the suits, not the jumpers. Fast forward 30 years, and Birdman beagn producuing a 'safe' wingsuit for commercial sale, and modern wingsuituing took off. Once the equipment proved to be 'safe', it was embraced by the community. Some years later, some regualtion did follow (and there's some more pending) but the discipline itself remains intact. Swooping is like that. The equipment is fine, as proved by the 1000,000's of swoops performed without incident. The problems are in the jumpers, and just because a few people get in over their head doesn't mean that everyone should give it up.

That's the beauty of Elsiniore, if it's slow (or so busy manifest is backed up) drive 20 min over the hill to Perris, and you could be on a load in no time. Last time I was in Elsinore, they were flying 8 or 10 loads per day during the week. It was a good pace with time to pack in between loads, and you could be on every one.

I don't see what this has to do with 'balls'. Will you be the first one to put in writing that you're never going to die skydiving because you're going to quit jumping? It's the same thing. Just like jumping, there are different degrees of swooping. Full on, competiton-style swooping, with a WL of 2.4/2.5 and multi-rotational turns would be the 'top of the mountain' sort of swooping. It doesn't get any 'bigger' than that. I have balls, and I used them when I got sick of jumping a Velo at 2.4 on every jump, and UPsized to a 2.0 WL. Do I still swoop the bigger canopy, sure, but the bigger canopy allows me more range, slower overall speeds, and in general is more forgiving than the smaller one. Maybe I'll dial back from doing 450 degree turns back to 270s some day. Maybe I'll back off the crossbrace and return to a Stiletto one day, but if I did I would still swoop the Stiletto. I see it as a progression/regression. I started off doing straight-in approaches on a big square, and heopfully I'll end up an old man doing the same. Just like I worked my way up the ladder of performance in terms of canopies and what I do with them as my skills progressed, I'll go right back down that ladder as my age and reflexes become more of a factor. For the record, there are plenty of ex-competition swoopers who have dailed back both their canopies and what they do with them based on not competing anymore. Lower WL, and smaller turns are idea for 'fun' swooping and jumpers who are not 'competiton-current'. When are you going to grow the balls to allow grown adults, with proper training and experience, to make their own choices as to how they want to conduct themselves? You enjoy that very freedom from the general public with regards to skydiving overall, how about extending that courtesy to fellow jumpers?

It's a fun thought, but you have some hurdles beyond the technical issues. For staters, who's going to pay for it all? If it's the DZ, they would have to buy the recieving equipment plus a monitor, and then a pile of cameras for the video staff. Let's say the DZ buys the recieving equipment, and the video guys have to buy their own cameras, that's better for the DZ, and worse for the camera flyers. Next, the camera guys now have to carry and maintain extra equipment. Space on camera helmets is tight, and some camera flyers go to great lengths to take weight off their helmets, where this plan would add weight. In the end, the problem is that this is a 'no revenue' plan. You're looking to the DZ and camera flyers to spend money and do work with no return. Let's face it, this would only benefit one group of people, that being tandems who buy outside video and have spectators with them at the DZ. Tandems that don't buy video obviously wouldn't appear on the live vidoe feed, and tandems who come alone or with other tandems will have nobody on the ground to watch the live feed anyway. Here's how we do it where I jump - we have a TV mounted near manifest and we play a loop of tandem/student videos so the customers can watch while they fill out the waivers and such. For customers who get video, once we're done editing we call over to manifest and have them page the student over the PA system to come up to manifest. At that point we shut off the loop video, and show their actual video, so they (and their family) gets 'instant gratification' and they get to see their video immediately. When it's done, we put the loop back on, and hand over their DVD. It's a good system, and it only cost a used TV and a DVD player.

Is this a tape-less camera? I use a side mount, and could 'somtimes' hear my PC-7 running over the aircraft noise. Now I have a CX, also side mounted, and I don't think it really makes any noise at all. With a FTP, it's got to be top-mounted, what exactly is he hearing?

A step-through is caused before packing begins, and it happens in one of two ways. The first is typical on a no-wind day, when your canopy lands on top of you. In order to keep the canopy 'straight' all of your lines have to come up and off of you the same way they fell on you, which is somtimes easier said than done. If the canopy fall on top you, and you 'step' out of any lines that are down by your feet, you just created a step-though. The other time is when you drop the rig in the hanger, if you set it down with the rig on top of the canopy, it's possible to pick it up the wrong way and pull the rig through one of the line groups. No 'stepping' involved, it's actually creating the problem in reverse, but it's the same thing. The lesson is to do a line check before every pack job, no exceptions. You need to run the lines up and make sure that the front and rear line groups, as well as the steering lines are clear from the riser to where they attach to the canopy. AS this video shows, even the neatest, cleanest pack job won't work if the canopy is not straight before you start packing.

Where did you order your gear from, the US? I have heard of people traveling to the US to pick up their gear, and staying for a few days of jumping said gear. The savings from not having to pay customs fees, taxes and the like will offset the trip.

It's just like anywhere you go, there are going to be people you like and people you don't like. There are going to be people who like you and people who don't like you. The DZ is there for one reason, so people can jump. It's not a social club, and just showing up doesn't suddenly make you everyone's 'friend'. Sure if I saw any skydiver at the grocery store, I'm going to stop and chat for a few minutes, but if I'm at the DZ, surrounded by jumpers and possibly other jumpers I like more than that person, I might just give them a 'What's up?' in passing. You can't force people to be friends with you. Go to the DZ to jump, and whoever you happen to 'fall in' with will be your friends. I know just about everyone who jumps at my DZ, but there are only a handful who I talk to or hang out with away from the DZ. Those people are my 'friends', and the rest of them are my 'skydiving friends'.

As previously mentioned, jumping with a tandem is not contingent on anything you're going to do this weekend. It will take a few more jumps before you'll be doing that. Keep in mind that if you pass those levels or not, you're still a 'student', and have a great deal of plannnig and responsibility for yourself on every jump. The point is that you need to understand and maybe relate to your date that there will be a period of time where you need to be focused on planning and actualyl making your jump, and you will not (or should not) be paying attention to her during that time. Otherwise, make sure manifest understands that you want to be on the same load as your date, and that both of you are willing to wait a load or two if need be. Also, once she has a TI assigned to her, you can make arrangements to sit nearby, and have her be the first tandem out so she'll be close to the door when you jump. Of course, you need to make an effort to focus on your jump, gear checks, spotting, exit seperation, etc even when she's sitting right next to you. Again, explain ahead of time that there's time for chit-chat, but there's also times where you need to be focused on the task at hand. Good luck bringing bait into the shark tank. It sounds like a joke, but I still remember the first time I brought my girlfriend to the DZ. I had about 50 jumps, and she just came out to see what it was all about (she wasn't the type who would jump). Sure enough, she sat at one of the picnic tables while I went up for jump, and by the time I landed there were 3 or 4 guys sitting with her. She thought skydivers were 'friendly', I had a different feeling about my new 'friends'.

She did kick right out of the line twists, but that's when she found out about the step-thru. Well, that's when I found out about the step-thru, she didn't realize what is was at that time. Look at the line groups just above the links, and when she kicks out of the twists, you can see the step-thru where some of the lines go across and around the other riser group. It starts off up by the canopy, but the slider pushes it down to the links during the deployment. It was jumper error during the pack job, and not completing a line check before starting the pack job. On to a couple of other (more minor) points I have after watching the video again. For staters, you can see the rings of dirt on her cutaway cables when she tosses the handle. Keep it clean people, it's not that hard. Anyone esle notice that she needed an extra hand to pull the soft reserve handle off the main lift web? She's not following the 'peel then pull' technique, and she's just tyring to shear the handle off the velcro, and that's where velcro is the strongest. This is a 'healthy' jumper with no hand or arm injury, and it took her two hands. A silver D-ring would have been easier to grip, but would have also reposnded to a straight pull, no peel required. The round profile of the handle, and the orienation of the velcro allows the handle to do the work of seperating the velcro with no 'extra' steps required to clear the handle. Like a lot of things, I think this is a case of a jumper being prepared for the best case sceanario, not the worst. Jumping a camera when you can't deploy a reserve stable, having the soft reserve handle when you don't know how to use it, and not knowing how to fly a reserve canopy all add up to a jumper who never really thought through or took seriously the idea of a cutaway.

In all fairness to me, I did conclude my post with this statement - Maybe the term, 'the worlds worst skydiver' was a bit much, but at the time I wrote that, I doubted that the student had recieved corrective training, and simply made two errors in a row. Given the first hand experience you have with the student, it appears that he did make two (compeltely different) canopy related mistakes two jumps in a row, and being grounded for the rest of the day was probably a good move.

Camera? Check. Arching after a cutaway or during EPs? No. Knowing you can't collapse the slider on a reserve? Also no. More importantly, it appears as if the jumper has no idea how to fly an F-111 7-cell. If you notice the flare, it's not complete and she times it so her hands are the furthest down at the same time she hits the ground. If this was a Z-po main, that type of flare and timing would have worked out fine, on a reserve, not so much. The F-111 7 cell needs a little 'time' to actually pitch up and flare. You want to complete the flare a few feet above ground level, and give the canopy a chance to slow down. Reserves generally only do one thing quickly, and that's open. In terms of toggle response, you're going to have to wait when compared to the response of a Z-po main. Of course, not packing the step through is the real lesson here. Any bets on if the jumper packed her own rig? If she did, I go back to the 'ready for a camera, but can't do a line check', and if she didn't, that's what you get for not packing your own stuff. There's really no way to win when you pack (or jump) a rig that can't pass a simple line check. Shit does happen sometimes when you pack, they don't all open, but when you pack it twisted up or stepped-thru, they'll never open.

Amen, my brother.

Anyone esle see a connection here? Let's keep in mind that the jump described in the OP was AFF lv. 7, and the subsequent jump would have been lv. 8, so even if there were a couple of levels he didn't pass, this is a guy with 10 jumps. So on one jump on a new-to-him canopy he goes long on his landing and puts it down in the parking lot. Two things casue this, either turning onto final too close to your target, or turning onto final too high. The very next jump he turns so low onto final that he's grounded for the rest of the day. Does anyone see the connection? My question is what sort of corrective training was applied to the student's canopy control after lv. 7? Clearly a mistake was made, and one that could have ended in injury or property damage, but it appears it was largely ignored and the jumper was allowed to return to the sky without corrective training. Was a flight plan created for the following jump? To include pattern entry and turn altitudes? Was accuracy discussed and how to alter turn-in points to adjust for accuracy? I don't know how far the overshoot was on lv. 7, but how about the concept of selecting a touchdown point with more room for over/under shooting, in order to prevent a repeat performance? Folks, this is a great examlpe of what's wrong with this sport. A student made a student mistake in the area of canopy control, and then by all indications was allowed to go back up without corrective (or sufficient corrective) training, and made another rookie mistake of over correcting. Unless the OP is the worlds worst skydiver who can't follow training or direction, and he was properly trained before the next jump, I place part of the blame for the error on the following jump on the DZ's instructional staff. This is a student with less than 10 jumps who made a significant and telling error, and then made the same error in reverse on the following jump. Not only did the DZ fail to recognize this, and apply corrective training, they had the nerve to ground him as if these were premeditated, intentional acts. From all outward appearances, it appears they were actually signs of shortcomings in the studetns understanding of canopy flight, and were largely ignored.

Here's what you do - get a list of all the events each DZ has planned, and pick the ones you want to attend. That takes care of some of your weekends. Next, look at those weekends, and pick a different DZ for the surrounding weekends, so you don't end up at the same place twice. Then do the same thing again and again until you've filled every weekend, and tried your hardest not to go to the same place two weeks in a row. Here's the fun part - if you run into any politcs with reagrds to where you choose to spend your time and money, and one DZO gives you a hard time about patronizing another DZO, go back to your schedule and remove every future visit to that DZ and schedule another DZ in their place. Anyone who's not happy to see you as often as you choose, shouldn't get to see you at all. Even if every DZO in the area gives you shit for jumping elsewhere, the process of elimination will provide you with a 'final' DZ, as the last one on the list won't have a chance to complain about jumping elsewhere as you won't be jumping anywhere else by that time anyway.

Actually, you just told the story by showing what you got out of my post. Did you happen to see these two paragraphs? You get what you give, my friend. If you feel like you were treated like a dollar sign or a number, maybe it's because you didn't give anyone a reason to see you as anything but that. For what it's worth, you're not winning anyone over with your charm around here so far.

You don't need to name the DZ to tell your story. You don't even need to name the country to tell your story. You do, however, need to tell your story if you think anyone is going to have anything to contribute.

Get over yourself (and landing the parking lot), you didn't ruin anything. At that point, the only things you were going to ruin anyway was the student rig or someones car, neither of which have anything to do with your instructors 1000th jump. As mentioned, if she wanted to do something besides a student jump for her 1000th, that was her choice. As it was, she took the student jumps, and as an instructor with 1000 jumps, she knows what that means and how things 'might' turn out. All that aside, what you described isn't a big deal. You had a good jump, and just overshot your landing on a new-to-you canopy. Get used to that sort of thing happening more and more as you move through the next 100 jumps or so. You'll be tyring new things, jumping new rigs and new canopies, and shit happens. The lesson you learned is why jumpers say that any landing (or jump) you can walk away from is a good one. It doesn't have to be perfect, just close enough not to injure you.

So far every post you've made has been a scattered, rambling diatribe about how bad you've been treated somwhere and how you're being looked at as a walking dollar sign. However, you never mention any specifics, you never explain how you feel you were mistreated or overcharged for goods or services, and your profile has no info about who you are and where you jump. If you're looking for sympathy, how about explaining your situation, and seeing if people agree you've been mistreated. For all we know, maybe you're a 'drama queen' who looks to play the victim, and the people you've been jumping with haven't done anything wrong. I can tell you this, skydiving isn't cheap for anyone, DZOs included. I have yet to meet the student who has enough money to spend that they alone will become a target for the DZO to try and line their pockets. Beyond the DZO, you realize that instructors make the same amount of money for every student they jump with. Often times, they have no idea how much you spent, or plan to spend, and don't really care. In terms of money, they'll get their $30 or $40, and then move on to the next student manifest sends their way. Beyond that, the majority of instructors don't even think about the money. Yes, they get paid per jump, but if the schedule is full for the day and they'll be busy, their money is not on their mind, they're too busy having fun spending the day in the air. The experience you have with an instructor is largely dependant on how you behave. If you're honest and upfront, and ready to learn and have fun, 99% of the instructors out there will pick up on that and make an honest effort to teach you and help you have a good time. On the other hand, if you act like a tool and are a pain in the ass, how do expect people to react? Instructors are no different than anyone else, and you get what you give. When you act like a dick to a waiter, they spit in your food. When you're a pain in the ass to an instructor, you're going to get the minimum required from them, and they won't give two shits about you once you're safely back in the student room.

How could you miss this one - "Mr Marriott said he wouldn't be surprised if people reacted negatively to his taking Elijah skydiving, but the boys had been around the sport for most of their lives and were therefore different from other children" Most of his life? The kid is two, so most of his life is anything over 1 year. Does 1 year on the DZ, minus time spent learning to walk and not shit your pants, really qualify you to jump?

Just to be celar, I'm not suggesting that everyone selling these certificates are trying to pull a scam, often times the seller isn't aware of the 'real deal'.

Indeed, however, the majority of these certificates are door prizes or give-aways for boogies, so there's no 'financial commitment' other than attending the boogie. On the contrary, if the manufacturer really cares one way or the other about the who the recipient is, they can simply make the certificate out to the winner by name and make it non-transferrable. That leaves the winner to either redeem it, leave it unused, or pull the old trick of 'buying' a container that just happens to be in the size and colors of another jumper (and use that jumpers money as well) and then 'gift' it to said jumper. Either way, I can't say I care too much about what people do with them, I just want to make sure that sellers and buyers both understand the nature and real value of the certificates. The example posted upthread is exactly what I was talking about. The $400 coupon has a 'actual' value of only $200 when you factor in the dealer discount. If the seller wants to let it for for $50 or $100, then there is a real savings to the buyer, but in this case they are asking $300 which represents a loss to the buyer.