davelepka

Parachute Landing Fall It's the method of rolling on landing to distribute the force over a large protion of your body. You may know it as the Parachute Landing Roll, or maybe the Bannana Landing (your body is shaped like a bannana just before impact). If you did not learn anything like this in your first jump course, you should ask for a partial refund, then take your money to another DZ.

Thats the best feedback you can get to your question. You really need to focus on your straight in landings for another 150 or 200 jumps. THEN, you need to take a canpoy control course (geared toward swooping), THEN you can start trying to swoop. You just don't have the expereince to handle HP landings, and the variety of unique situations that can arise in doing such landings. And, no, I don't care how good you think your are, or how 'in control' you may think you are. Slow down, do it the right way, and keep yourself in one piece.

Not to minnimize this tragedy in any way, but your comments concerning the flight path of the helicopter don't make much sense. Is it any secret that much of the appeal of the 412 jump is the ride? I don't think so. I also don't think this was a secret to the victim. Was he attepting to film a conservative liftoff and acent on that day? Or was he trying to capture the action of the manuvers the 412 commonly performed on each lift it flew? Did he select a conservative vantge point from which to film this event? Or did he choose to find the spot that would provide him the most extreme camera angle for the coolest footage? The victim made many choices that day, one of which was to put himself in the flight path of a helicopter. I don't think he ever imagined the outcome in doing so, but he did make the choice on his own. Again, I am sorry to the friends and family of the victim. It is a terrible loss, and I'm sure he will be deeply missed.

It's easy. Of course try a couple up top, and rear-riser stall it a few times to see where that is, and what it's like. After your turn, during the dive, put your hands as high as you can on the back risers, and keep them there. Just do what comes naturally to avoid hitting the ground. You can either do the whole thing on the risers, or drop them at the last mintue and shut it down with toggles. If your turn gets botched, and you have to do any kind of digging, I would say abort the rear risers thing and do it with toggles. If you can't seem to locate your nuts, you may want to check under your legstrap (unless you have a wife or girlfriend, in which case I would guess that they are holding on to them for you). Good luck. Edit: I read the post just before mine, and I have 2500+ jumps on a Stiletto at 2 to 1. I have no problems with efficiency of any kind, and always make it home from a long spot, and get great swoops with toggles or risers.

Are you sure about that? It would seem that with a five second turn, a 180 would require a lower rate of turn (and subsequent angle of attack) then a five second 360 (with a higher angle of attack). Would you hit a drag limited "terminal velocity" sooner in the shallower 180 than in the steeper 360? It seems that if the time (5 sec) were the constant, and the turn rate (and angle of attack) were the variable(s), it would be hard to come up with the same end result for the two approaches. Am I mixed up in my thinking somehow?

If you have a look at the thread regarding the recent fatal landing accident in Lodi, you'll see that this was a case of a beginner jumper who was given a canopy that was beyond his capability. In truth, any canopy will behave in a docile fasion if hadled correctly. How else do you explain building two stacks with 90 sq ft Velocities? The key pricipal in selecting a canopy for a beginner should be that the canopy has docile handling regardless of the piolts input. By putting a beginner on a canopy with HP possibilities, you are leaving it up to the jumper to regulate the inputs, and to make sound decisions (sometimes under pressure), and as we all know, humans make mistakes. A properly sized Sabre will never mistake itself for a Cobalt, and behave in an unpredictable manner (the comparison is between a canopy and a human, where the canopy will always behave in the same manner and the human is unpredictable. I'm not impying that a Cobalt is unpredictable). By giving a jumper a safer canopy, they have the oppertunity to build experience and reflexes that will help to minnimize the occurence of said mistakes when they do progress to more aggresive canopies.

Looking at your canopy doesn't help anything. When you are that close to the ground, watch where are going, and work the canopy by feel. Your canopies are both too small for your experience. 1:1 for a main might be OK, but your reserve is loaded even higher than that, The "rough landing" you had is one of the "worst case scenarios" you could possibly encounter with your canopy. If you are not prepared to deal with it properly, you are not ready for the size canopy you are jumping. Have you expereinced turbulence before? Were you aware of what the canopy would do, and how to react to that in a timely fashion? It doesn't sound like it. A larger canopy would have slowed down every event leading up to your impact, possibly giving you time to look down, and flare. At the very least it would have lowered your decent rate and maybe lessened your injuries. This weekend I had a similar problem with my Stiletto 107. At 50 ft, the canopy stopped, than tried to collapse on me. I was able to keep it pressurized, but dropped straight down the last 50 ft, and managed to stand up the lading. Some jumpers said it looked like I was going to break both of my legs, but I managed to minimize the decent rate and keep the canopy inflated. Would you have been ready to sink your canopy in from 50 ft? You may want to carefully consider your canopy choices. It's no secret that most fatalities and injuries in skydiving are the result of bad landings. It is the one phase of your skydive where you are most likely to get hurt and needs to be approached with those thoughts in mind. Good choice on the helmet, by the way.

Good point. Read the second line for an alternative solution. Oh, the third line also has a some potential.

Buy a smaller reserve. Buy a bigger main. Or a little of each.

Again, your post is focusing on the shortcomings of other companies, which had no bearing on the performance of Atair. I don't believe anyone is saying that PD or Icarus is perfect, but in turn, you DO seem to have a defense for every error Atair has made, and while you have not said it, the implication of perfection is certainly there. (I am constituting denial of any or all problems as a defense). I am hesitant to accept your experience with PD as being valid because A) your being in the pro-Atair camp, it seems convienient that you happen to be the only person I have heard of who has had such an experience; and more so B) you still have not addressed the issue of sharing the details of your in-accessable full profile with the rest of the class.

After reading the posts from the weekend, it seems to me one of the main points that pro-cobalt jumpers are making is that other manufacturers also have had problems with some canopies. This is absolutley true, but has no bearing on the discussion of weather or not Atair has some troubles with product performance/cust. service. With regards to your personal demo experience with the Cobalt (yours being shipped on risers), I'm sure that Atair gets it right sometimes. Unfortunately, this thread has revaeled that I'm not the only one who received a demo that was dis-organized, and not inspected. I personally cannot say for sure, but I would be surprised if someone out there got a demo from PD that was not on risers, neatly flaked and packed after inspection, and included packing tips and rubber bands. This does not represent a huge amount of effort, but goes a long way toward satisfying the customer. I still have not been able to access your full profile, and was wondering if you could include the following with your reply: your jump numbers, home DZ, and current and past canopies and sizes.

Thank you.

Sweaty feet are the key. There was a thread on your favorite geeky science phenomenon, and it covered the Lidenfrost effect, which is the governing principal of the fire walk. Check it out.

Thanks for responding to this thread. My openings on the Cobalt were not "hard". They were quick, too quick. Just for reference, I'm busy removing swoop cords and turning off cameras during the opening, I couldn't grab the risers if I wanted to. I have no problem flying the harness during the opening. The opeings I had were so quick, it was a non-issue. When jumping the 96 Velocity, I often use the harness to direct myself toward the DZ during the snivel so by the time the slider comes down, I'm headed home. Care to comment on the demo situation? My demo was extremely late, and relpies to my communications were non-existent. When it did arrive it was without risers, and the links were not on a card of any kind. If I didn't happen to have an extra set of risers, and the know-how to untangle and hook it up, my rigger would have been in for alot of work. First disconnecting my canopy from my risers, hooking your up, and vise versa at the end of the weekend. As far as the pilot chute situation goes, you do realize that you are recomending a pilot chute that is typically smaller than the spandex pouch was designed for. You openly admit that most containers are shipped (and designed) for 28 to 32", but you reccomend using a smaller one. For the record I use a 24" with the correct, smaller, pouch. Lets face it, rigs were built around the concept of face to earth deployment. Advertising your canopies as capable of opening at higher speeds (along with the photo sequence of such you printed in the magazine) is bound to encourage someone to do just that, again, outside the design parameters of the container, and outside the safe operating parameters of the reserve (yes the reserve may be able to take the load, but the jumper will feel differently). I have a great deal of respect for anyone who can bring a canopy to market, but wouldn't it be wiser to design a product the works within the standard parameters of skydiving i.e., falling straight down, with stock pilot chutes and at regular speeds. Look at the electric car situation. It's a good idea, that many people would be interested in for it's environmental merit. But with the short range, and insufficient number charging stations, it's not a practical solution to the problem at hand.

10-4 good buddy. Maybe Atair should ship the demos with a pilot chute of the reccomended size. Oh, wait, before they do that, maybe they could ship the demos on risers. Risers too expensive? How about a chunk of cardboard with six holes in it so the line groups and steering lines don't become tangled/flipped/twisted or whatever. Cardboard too expensive? Must be..... Just to be fair, I was impressed that the diamonds were actually sewn into the bottom skin. I was expecting them to be applied over top of the bottom skin.

Thats not a great performance, opening wise. In 2000+ jumps on Stiletto 107's, I've had less than 5 bad openings. Two of those were due to broken A lines (and really weren't that bad), and the rest due to unstowed toggles (no line twists, just turning severely). I pay very little attention to the pack jobs (shake it, wrap it, and bag it). I also open in a variety of speeds and body positions, and still no troubles.

When I faxed the demo request form, I heard nothing for a week or so. I started to send out some e-mails, and didn't get a response. Once I did (maybe two weeks later) they said it was going out right away. Well, six weeks later, they called to see if I was still interested. I said sure, and three days later I got a 95 Comp in the mail. No risers. No card for the links, just daisey chained and swinging free. Oh, the slider was still collapsed, so I know an inspection was not dome inbetween demo jumpers. Great first impression. I only jumped the canopy for 5 jumps before disconnecting it and tossing it aside. Good stuff. John LeBlanc isn't losing any sleep.

No acceptable openings in 8-9 jumps? Congratulations, join the club. Did you also get to enjoy the lackluster swooping performance from the "Comp" model?

I think if everyone is pointing to PD, they have made their opinions clear. 2003 Quote of the Year: "If PD don't make it, you don't need it."

I saw your response was to Hooknswoop, and the first line of his post references the loop in the end of the riser.

The excess line they are discussing is on rigs where the excess is passed through the opening on the end of the riser (the space where the Slink tab lives) then looped around the nose of the toggle before stowing the toggle. In this configuration, the excess line is pulled back through the opening once the toggle in unstowed, opeing the door for an entanglement. For this reason I am not fond of this stowing method, and always unstow brakes stowed this way (on borrowed gear) with some trepidation. For the record, I too do not stow my excess, and I too will verify it is clear before unstowing the brakes.

The line-over is most likely a steering line. If you wanted to cut a steering line in order to clear a line-over, pull the toggle on the side with the line over down, away from the other lines, and cut the line. If your canopy will not fly strainght after clearing the mal., either compensate for the turn with the rear rsier on the toggle-less side, or cut the other steering line, and flare with the rear risers. Incidentally, if you have a line-over (main or reserve) releasing your brakes and pumping the toggle on the offending side can clear the problem. Of course, remember your hard deck if this is on your main. If this is the reserve, try once or twice, then cut the line. If you don't have a hook knife, keep trying to clear it, or see if you can find a way to make the canopy fly straight (or straighter) before impact.

Good question. The truth is a low trun regardless of the degree will break legs (and other bones). It is possible that people doing 180's are less expereinced than those who have progressed to the 270. Less expereince can lead to mistakes and subsequent injury. Edited because I am a retard, and everything esle I typed has no relevence to this thread what so ever.

Dan has a couple hundred jumps, and he packs for himself. It's amazing. He's also into rock climbing, and has been to the base camp at Everest. Some people just don't like to sit still.

Thanks. His name is Scott Andrew, and he should be in the standard class.