davelepka

I'm pretty sure you were riding that same horse over in the other thread about this same jump, but it's not the right horse. For starters, I have yet to meet the TI who shows his students the location of, and explains the purpose for the handles. As such, the student knows of no connection between an emergency situation, and those things mounted on the TI's harness. A student is just as likely to reach down and grab the TI's nutsack as they are to grab the handles. None of that is mentioning that fact that the handles would be very difficult for a student to reach, being just above and outboard of the students shoulders. It's not a natural place to reach, and even if you could, having the strength to pull them from that angle is doubtful. This is why experienced jumpers who act as a tandem pax during certification dives are given extensions to the handles on their own harness so they could work them if need be. Of course, again, if you keep in mind that the student doesn't know that those handles and emergencies are related, the location is moot. In terms of the actual jump, it might have been borderline inappropriate for a TI. Might. It was, however, funny as shit when the TO told him to kick his legs under canopy.

I'm sure we can all agree that the above scenario does not represent much of a scientific test of a canopies natural tendency to do much of anything, It is, however, a great story. This whole issue is simply one of perception. Let's keep in mind that 'into the wind' represents only one heading on any given day, and every other heading will include some degree of downwind component. For example, if the wind is coming from 270, then that heading is into the wind. Even a slight deviation off of that, say 265 or 275 will result in a crab downwind to some degree. The key argument against canopies 'seeking' a downwind heading is that a canopy in flight is only 'aware' of the relative wind created by it's forward movement. This is why we have to differentiate between airspeed and groundspeed when discussing things like flying landing patterns which involve navigating to fixed point on the ground and involves traveling both with, and into the wind. In a perfect world, canopies do not know anything about wind direction. However, this is not a perfect world, and as we know the wind is not a perfect medium. There are gusts, doglegs and thermals that distrub the airmass that a canopy is flying through. While the canopy may be 'blindly' flying along in it's own relative wind attempting to maintain its trimmed arispeed, the variations in the airmass will cause the arispeed of the canopy to vary slightly, and not always in a uniform way across the entire canopy. As the canopy attempts to return to it's trimmed airspeed, and maintain uniform pressure acorss the wing, variations in airpseed and heading will occur. It's just like driving a car. Set the cruise on long stretch of smooth highway, and you can take your hands off the wheel for surprisingly long periods of time and still go straight down the road. Try the same on a bumpy road, and the reaction of the car to the bumps will cause the heading to change. The bumps in the road are just like the variations in the airmass. Now to bring it all together, canopies may very well 'seek' a downwind heading when no input is applied, but not for the reasons many think. The canopy is not getting blown downwind, it is simply reacting to the variation in the airmass, and this can result in alterations of the heading. As we previously discussed, into the wind represents only one heading on the compass, while every other heading will have a downwind component. When you combine the fact that canopies are unlikely to hold a heading with no input, and that 359 of the 360 possible headings a canopy could fly have a downwind component, than it would appear that canopies always tend to turn downwind with no input. In reality, canopies turn with no input and the direction of turn and degree of downwind component the new heading will have is just happenstance, and a result of that fact that most headings have a downwind component.

That's saltwater, so putting that thing back on the road is going to be a long haul. However, if it costs the insurance company $1.5M to total the thing, maybe $500k to clean her up is a bargain. What would an insurance company do with it if they did total it out? Put it up for auction? I wonder what the market is like for a nice Bugatti that's been submerged in saltwater? Is there a market?

This is a perfect example of more money than brains. Saved the phone, ruined the car. It really is a waste of a very limited production car. At least when a rich jerk-off buys a yacht or a jet, they hire a professional crew to work the machinery, but when it's a Bugatti or an Enzo, suddenly just having the cash to buy it makes you a professional driver. Anyone looking for some good used Bugatti parts, I know a guy. No interior or electronics available.

"Kick your legs! Kick your legs!" I wish I could have seen his legs.

I wonder if pilot-one is really a pilot? Hopefully he's just a guy who jumps an Aerodyne Pilot. Now Bill, there are canopies that will always fly downwind, round ones. Downwind, everytime.

Now you're asking the right questions in the right way. This subject has been beat to death in a slightly different form. The idea then was to have a WL chart (much like the one you've seen) that would have to be followed by everyone. The current chart is just a reccomendation. I'm sure it's not surprising to hear that the majority of older, more experienced jumpers (the kind that would not be effected by the chart) were behind the idea, and that the newer, less experienced jumpers (who would be effected by the chart) were opposed to it. The USPA was presented with this idea by several different people in several different ways, but chose not to implement such a chart as a rule, but included such a chart as a reccomandation (which means close to zero because each jumper is still free to do whatever they please). When it comes to DZ or instructor reccomendations, opinions vary widely from DZ to DZ, and from instructor to instructor. Under the current instructional rating system, a jumper with just a few years in the sport, and 500-ish jumps can earn an AFF I rating, which is essentially to top of the food chain in the ratings world. A new jumper such as yourself may come into contact with many different instructors. Let's say you have two that you work with, Jim and Tim. Jim is 23, has been jumping for 3 years, and has 609 jumps and a fresh AFF I rating. Tim is 52 and has been jumping for 25 years, instructing for 19 years, and has 3245 AFF jumps under his belt. On paper you can see that these two people are vastly different, have much different frames of reference, and are likely to give much different advice. Howver, to the student, Jim and Tim are just two instructors and they both seem like top notch professionals. If you happen to strike up a conversation with Jim about what canopies you should be looking at for your first rig, you're going to get a much different answer than if you asked Tim. To take it even one step further, if Jim happens to be a little more liberal, a little bit more of a risk taker than the average instructor, again, Jims advice is going to be less than idea, but to the student it appears to be right on the money. To go another step further, the coaches you have been working with can get the coach rating with something like 100 jumps, and a year in the sport. Again these people are presented to the students as rated skydiving professionals, but they are far from it. None the less, the student does not know this, and will take from them just the same. What's the solution? The solution is to educate yourself about skydiving equipment and equipment selection. There is a ton of good reading info on the net, and local riggers are always a good source of technical information. When it comes time to select main and reserve canopies, ask as many people as you can find. Look for every instructor, every swooper, and every guy that's been jumping for 10 years or more. Consult with the DZO, and the local S&TA. Post intelligent questions on DZ.com, listen to the answers, and take them all with a grain of salt. Somewhere in the middle of all that will be your answer. You're going to see a wide range of advice about different brands, models, and sizes, but certain names or sizes will come up in conversation more than others. This is the area you should be look at. In terms of your situation, you're pushing it. A 159 is a very aggressive choice for a first canopy, and the field elevation where you jump is a HUGE factor. I know you intend to crank out 100 jumps before the high and hot summer days roll around, but your good intentions do you little good under canopy, landing off on a hot, humid day. One of the worst things you can do is buy equipment that you're not ready for, but that you plan to loose weight for, or rack up jumps real quick to justify the purchase. Buy and jump what you are ready to jump and land today given the worst case scenario. A 170 is a much better bet, but still on the smaller side of what you should be looking at. If you do succeed in cranking out 100 jumps by next June, buy a smaller canopy then. Chances are, however, in addition to learning more about canopy control, you'll learn more about making good choices, and you'll choose not to downsize right before the hot season. Instead, you'll let the density altitude speed up your current canopy for the summer, you'll pound out another 50 jumps, and be even more ready for a downsize in the cooler fall weather.

I have no comment on the subject of this thread, but could not ignore the irony of the name of the poster directly below the post of yours I quoted. It's brilliant.

I'm going to guess that it has something to do with your attitude, which you have despite your enormous lack of knowledge. But than you bring up this - - and I've becomed convinced that the problem is that Sparky has an uncanny ability to identify a douchebag. Without ever meeting you, I can guarantee that Sparky has been jumping longer than you have been alive. It might be hard for you to believe, but the was a world before you came into it. You have to be able to easily understand that there is a difference between having 40 jumps total in six months, and making 40 jumps every six months for 33 years. You just have to, or you may be legally retarded.

For some reason I'm under the impression that some South American DZs are not open on a 'regular' basis. Even when they are, it's not always an all-day sort of thing. I would wait for some solid confirmation that they are open, and will be open all day on both days of the weekend you want to jump. Even then, with only two days to jump, winds/weather can easily make it a zero jump trip, so I would think twice about hauling your rig on several airlines and then around Chile for what might amount to nothing. Even if you don't take your rig, you can always pay the DZ a visit and see what's what. They might have some knock-off Chilean death rigs, but they might also have some TSO'd equipment as well. You might even be able to borrow a rig from an experienced jumper if someone as a nice looking rig sitting around. I would have to think that expecting to make 10 to 15 jumps in a weekend at a Cessna DZ would be highly optimistic. There would have to be just enough people to keep the plane flying, but not too many that the loads get backed up.

I see you cover equipment selection, and jump selection, but I would put some time into covering jump preperation. For example, their camera helmets should be fully prepped and all camera set on the ground before they gear up. Once the camera helmet is prepped, put it down and forget about it while you prep yourself with rig, jumpsuit, altimeter, etc. Likewise, in the plane the camera helmet should be checked and donned well before the two minute call. Once that is done, forget about it, and revert to your normal pre-jump gear checks. You have to remember that the distraction of the camera is one of the key problems with newer camera flyers, so having a plan to compartmentalize and deal with the distraction is essential. I would also pay some attention to audible altimeters. On every other jump, they are a back up device there to assist the wrist mount, and the jumpers eyes. On a camera jump, they become a key player in the dive flow. You can't look at a wrist mount, and while you might be able to eyeball the ground on some camera jumps, newer camera flyers should keep their eyes on their subject to maintain safe proximity. Audibles should be set to go off above the break off of the slydive, keeping the camera flyer ahead of the game so they know what's coming. Another area would be how they should conduct their own camera briefing with their subjects. How will the climbout and exit count be set up? What about the bottom end? Where is everyone going to be tracking and pulling? I think the big picture is that these guys know zero about flying a camera slot. There's a fair chance that they'll be filming their buddies who know zero about jumping with a camera flyer around.

How hot does it get at Mile Hi anyway? Are we talking Mile-and-a-half Hi? Higher? That's something to think about for sure. That 159 will turn itself into a 139 or a 129 right quick. The ground, however, will remain the same hardness all year long. Whatever you do, don't gain any weight or wear a weight belt.

Thanks for the heads up. I was going to post something over there, but then I read that the OP jumps at MileHi, at which point my brain started to hurt trying to gather all the thoughts I was having. Your post about how big were his 'big ways' and how low were his 'low' pulls was spot on. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. At the rate the OP is going, by the time he's doing actual big ways or pulling low, he'll be three canopies smaller than the 159 he's jumping now. Or not jumping due to injury.

If you live in the northern half of the country, and want your new rig to be here in the spring, this is the time to place an order. A bunch of orders = A longer wait time Wasn't there just a thread about the long wait time over at Sunpath? Buy an Infinity, and you'll probably have it before the end of 2009.

That's an interesting response to several points I didn't make. I didn't ask you about what canopies you have flown or what sizes you have flown them at. I don't care who you are. I would give that same adivce to a pro swooper with 10 gold medals. The conditions you described are not a good place to be flying a very small canopy that you have no experience with, and regardless of what other canopies you have jumped, 89 sq. ft is most certainly a very small canopy. Getting hurt up in the mountains is serious business. It can take awhile for help to reach you, and it's usually cold as hell up there. I'm not sure why you think it's a place to take a canopy that you know so little about that you have to ask questions on the internet, but I would suggest you rethink your equipment selection.

I think the vmax 89 would be a very poor choice for you to fly at high altitudes, in gusty and windy conditions. The truth is, almost any canopy would be a poor choice in those conditions, but the worst choice of all would be a very small canopy that you have never jumped before. If you were going to fly in those conditions, I would reccomend a conservative wing loading on a canopy you have already jumped several hundred times.

I think you're way off base here. You bought a used main that was used enough to need a new lineset, so much so that you did not test jump the main before buying it. This is nobodies fault but your own. You sent to a loft for service, to include an inspection. The last time I checked, the standard inspection at a loft includes the lines, and line trim, the condition of the fabric, and checking all the seams and stiching. Once a canopy has been put into service, and enough jumps have been put on it to wear out a lineset, the assumption is that the canopy itself is assembled correctly, and there would be no need to measure each panel or the location of the seams. I cannot say for sure, but I would venture that even PD, the gold standard in customer service, does not include those items on a standard inspection before a reline. They are simply looking at the condition of the already assembled canopy, just like Para-Concepts did for you. Beyond that, if they correctly installed the line set you paid for, and you did not find any damage to the fabric or seams, Para-Concepts did the job that you asked them to do, and that you paid them to do. They have no responsibility to you beyond that, and to expect them to reimburse you for any of your costs is absurd. You're barking up the wrong tree, and the worst part about it is that your barking up it on DZ.com. All it would have taken was a simple search reagrding Icarus canopies, and you would have seen that many jumpers have horror stories regarding the lack of customer service from the factory. You could have also searched for 'buying used canopies' and read that a test jump is a GREAT idea before buying any used canopy. Instead you bought a used canopy with a worn out line set, no test jump, no internet research, and now because the thing was built wrong many years ago in another country, you want Para-Conpects to take a hit on a reline and inspection they succesfully completed? Get real.

HEY EVERYONE! LOOK AT ME!!! Resident dickhead, in the house with some big news. Big big news. Check this out - http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3718663;page=3;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; I was going to lay into this guy, but thought to myself, 'Self, maybe the pansies are right. Maybe the soft sell is the way to go. Let's see if I can't make a sensible, compassionate plea for some understanding and good decision making'. Read his reply to guage my success, than allow me to bask in the warm glow of my utter failure. You see, nothing is going get through to this guy, and I should have went with my first instinct because, if nothing less, it would have at least been entertaining. Quick edit - I wrote this post after I penned #54 on the thread in question. Since then, the OP has been kind enough to add post #55 for our viewing pleasure, and it's pure gold. Even if I was secretly posting as the OP, and just making this shit up, I could have never come up with that on my own. I think that just might become my first sig line quote. Seven years with a blank sig line, and finally I see the light.

The post was not written in jest. That's the truth, and there's nothing funnny about it. We all started at jump one, that's true. I managed to live through 4999 more over the course of 15 years, and keeping that in mind, it looks like I may know a thing or two about how this all works. I don't say that. I said that some jumpers are idiots, regardless of their experience level. Every new jumper is ignorant, due to their lack of experience and exposure to the sport. Some are smart enough to recognize this, and apporach things with this in mind. Others will ingore this, and proceed in another fashion. Thus far, you appear to be more of the latter. Your posts don't indicate that you are trying to learn. They seem to be more of you tyring to validate the ideas you already have in your head. Good luck and godspeed out there. It happens fast, be ready.

Look friend, I hate to break it to you, but you're not special. You're no different than most jumpers at the early stages; you're excited, enthusiastic, and dedicated to the idea of jumping as much as possible. Is there a chance that you may grasp some concepts before others at your level? Of course there is. Could you possibly have a deeper understanding of what's going on up there than guys with two or three times the jumps you have? Yes, you might. I hate to break it you, but for starters, there are a lot of stupid skydivers. Let's face it, jumping out of a plane is not the smartest thing to do. Some of those that do are super smart, ultra informed masters of risk management, and some are just fat, dumb and happy. Just because you may have found some jumpers you superoir to, those might be the dumb guys you're hanging with. But the real point is this, all of your brain power, your will to succeed and your good intentions mean very little in the end. It all comes down to how you physically react to different situations. While there is a mental component to this sport, unless you can translate your thoughts into the correct actions at the correct time, bad things are going to happen. When it comes to parachutes, the speed at which you can translate these thoughts, is the speed of the canopy you should be flying. A slower, more forgiving canopy will allow you time to think though what are doing, time to observe and learn from each situation, and allow you to land safely EVERY TIME. There is no acceptable margin for landing safely. It must happen 100% of the time, all day, every day, every jump. Even a 1% margin for error means than in less than 100 jumps, you will not walk away from one of them. 0.1% only gives you 1000 jumps before you're in the hospital. Are you making choices that will put your odds at better than 0.1% failure rate? If I was operating at that rate, I would have been in the hospital 5 times over. As it is, I have been there zero times, and plan to keep it that way. I made my canopy choice by balancing out my skill and experience level against the speed of my canopy. What skill and experience do you have on your side? If the answer is 'not that much' then you need to rely on the canopy to do the work for you by picking a forgiving canopy and size. I don't know you. I have no plans to go to Chicagoland and meet you. Ever. I don't even have any plans to jump anywhere more than an hour from my house, my job and kids keep me pretty well strapped down. I have nothing to gain or lose based on your success or failure, but still I take the time to write this in an attempt to help you see the way of the world. Consider that, along with the other points I've made. One mistake is all takes. One half second lapse in judgment or delay in reacting. Do you really think you're that good that you aren't going to make one mistake? Ever?

First tip, pay for student jumps as you go. There's no need to pay the full amount up front, and when you pay as you go, you don't have any pressure to jump other than whatever you feel like doing. If you spring for the whole program up front, you may feel like you have to jump, when you should only be there when you want to jump. Some have suggested finding a cheaper DZ, which might be a thought, but only if you can find one nearby. When you travel to a DZ to get a license, you have the added pressure of getting it done before the trip is over, and you don't need that. Proceed at your own pace, at a DZ near your home. Next, don't think about buying gear until you have a license. All of your student and coach jumps will include rental gear, so there's no problem there. After that, you can continue to rent gear as long as you want. Yes, it will cost money to rent, but it on a per jump basis, not a lump sum. Once you have a license, and are ready to look at gear, a used rig is the way to go. Your first rig will be very similar to the student rigs you'll be using during your training, but you'll outgrow it within about 100 jumps. If you buy new for the first one, you lose a ton when you sell it to move to a more 'sporty' rig. Once you're ready to upgrade, you'll be buying a rig that will last you for at least serveral hundred jumps, and buying new makes more sense. So figure on pay-as-you-go for student jumps, so you don't need to worry about taking out a loan for that. While you train, start saving your pennies, and when you're ready to buy a rig, plan on a used rig and expect to pay between $3000 and $4000. Even if you can only save up $1000, your loan amount just went from $8k down to $2.5k, and you have a $3500 rig to show for it (typically you can sell your used rig for 75% or 80% of the purchase price if you take care of it). There's no reason to go 'all in' to start skydiving. Go slow, see what's what, and make sure it's everything you think it is. Get your license and nice used rig, and give it a year. If you're still head over heels for the sport, then re-arrange your life to fit around skydiving. If it's going to happen, going in slow isn't going to hurt. If you find it's less than you thought it would be, then not having $10K to repay is going to be a VERY nice thing.

It's simple, he already bought a container so small he can barely fit his current 155 into it, so his first priority in looking for a canopy is that it has to fit into his rig. No, i'm not kidding.

Also, does your mom have a coffee grinder? I'm having dinner at her place later this week, and want to bring some good coffee for the next morning. Should I bring whole bean, or do I need pre-ground? Cash only please, no checks.

How about a rubber skull mask, the kind that can cover your whole face? What are your thoughts on that? Keep your erection away from my rig.

Just to be clear, we're not talking about 'gravity sports', we're talking about skydiving, and more specifically aircraft operations which is what seperates skydiving from other gravity sports. For every 'experienced' person you've see who doesn't know dick about gravity sports, I've seen 20 who think that they're knowledge or experience in other sports somehow translates into knowledge or experience in skydiving. Just because you may be a sweet BASE jumper, you still have alot to learn about skydiving, and you would be wise to remember that. My adivce is not here to make you feel good. My advice is here to make sure that whoever reads this undertsands the full scope of the situation, and can then make informed decisions about what they choose to do or not do. I write in such a way that even the newest student can understand what I'm saying. I don't assume that the reader knows anything beforehand, so nobody gets left behind. People dying and planes crashing is what sucks the fun out of jumping. Not rolling a tube out of the door shoud hardly be the lynch pin in your thoughts regarding how fun, or not fun, skydiving may be.