TomKaye

Answer a couple of questions and create a controversy. Ok I am here, ask away. You guys can post my emails. PS talking to some producers that might spend some serious dollars on the case (fingers crossed). Tom Kaye

Very sad..... I am just the messenger here. Everything I am telling you about this subject comes from text in the archive. To clarify, when I said "in order" that means the bills were in random order stacks, the microfilm list showed those random serial numbers in-the-order they were stacked in the bundles. The random serial numbers on the top and bottom bills was recorded so it could be determined where in the list each individual stack started and stopped. And it was described in detail that the FBI had to sort through the numbers to figure out the true list. Tom

More info: There was a film canister with the film inside that was given to the FBI days after the event. The FBI had to determine which of the bills remained and which were given to Cooper. The canister contained the list of serial numbers in order PLUS a list of the start and stop serial numbers for each bundle. At the end of the film was a list of the start and stop numbers for each bundle that was left in the bank. There were 100 bills exactly per bundle. The FBI never did any sorting of the bills what so ever from the transcripts. The bank people brought the money to Sea-Tac where the FBI then took it on the plane. Tom

Guys, So you don't waste any more time on this. Directly from the FBI documents: "Ransom money in the amount $200,000 was made up entirely of used, random 20 dollar bills. It was obtained from the Seattle-First National Bank, Main Office, and was part of a ransom package of 250,000, which had been maintained by the bank for such emergencies." "The entire list of the ransom bills had previously been microfilmed by the Seattle-First National Bank, and has now been incorporated in a 34 page pamphlet of ransom bills." We long ago tried to find the original microfilm so it would show the order of the bills in the bundles. No luck even with Larry Carr helping. In my opinion the available list has no relation to the order of the bundles. Tom

Hello ALL, If anyone recorded my talk at the museum I would very much appreciate a copy. My recorder ran out of memory half way through. If I can get the audio I will try and put it together with the powerpoint and get it on the website as a streaming video. We didn't think anyone from DZ showed up except Sailshaw. We were disappointed the rest of you didn't introduce yourselves. Dinner after the even would have been fun. Thanks Tom

Hello All, I most certainly do not believe that the money was two miles from the dredge pile. Its more like a little over 100 yards or so. I have to think it was a typo in the transcript. I can't get the complete interview downloaded to verify. Hope to see many of you at the museum. Tom

Nice find on the metals list for the SST. Once again Snow shows his incredible search skills. We did hear that they used pure Ti in things like the hydraulic lines but discounted it because it was such a comparatively small amount. Now the key is to find 400 series stainless on the SST hopefully in association with the pure Ti. 500 series aluminum would help too. Tom Kaye

"Are you saying the "titanium, chlorine and sodium" your quote above, came from match heads?" Yes, we found individual particles with those combined elements in the particle. "does that include the 60 micron long piece of Titanium you have pictured at your website ?" No the 60 micron particle was actual titanium metal that was smeared and had stainless embedded in it. "In other words, are you including the 60 mic piece in your list of "particles" you associate with match heads?" No, the pure titanium metal particles were very different from the others that contained a combination of elements. "Second: does the 60 micron long piece look finished (machined)? With broken ends ?" It had smear marks on it so it could have been machined or came from some device that could smash and distort the particle. "Third, I had better ask this: what is different about the form of chlorine you found vs chlorine one might find in a public washroom, on the airplane?" It was in the form of particles that additionally contained sodium and titanium. Our database that is also used by the FBI, shows that chlorine, sodium and titanium dioxide are common in matches. Tom Kaye

All, Please let me clarify: We did find titanium metal on the tie. This was pure titanium which is NOT part of a structural airplane part. We do not think Cooper worked at an airplane factory. We do think he worked at a titanium manufacturing plant or a plant that used pure titanium for their process equipment. We originally thought we found the by-products of titanium manufacturing which consisted of particles of titanium, chlorine and sodium. If this were true (which it turns out it isn't) then it would have lead us to a particular TI plant. After extensive research, we determined that these particles came from the match heads when Cooper lit his cigarettes. Gray released the information about titanium sponge against our will before we were done researching when we still thought it could be from a TI production plant. This should clarify our position on all this. Tom Kaye

Just so everyone is clear, I have not made any comments on the markings on the tie clip. I only provided a higher res picture for everyone else to look at. We didn't see anything of significance when we examined the tie clip under a magnifier. The marks everyone is talking about I would guess are processing marks from the stamping machine used to mass produce them. Tom Kaye

Robert, We already looked into this. The bills in each bundle had random numbers so they would not look marked. The numbers were recorded before hand on microfilm. The published list is not in the original order but was reorganized into sequential numbers making it easier to look up a number. Carol A. searched in vain for the original list but not even the FBI has it. There is no way to tell if the bills found on Tena were from the same original bundles or not. Tom

It's important because we have the original Cooper descriptions from the files. If the current description does not match his original, then all his info is worthless. If it's a great match, then any additional information provided should be investigated. For once we have a way to establish some level of credibility for a current witness. Tom

Jerry, How about you have this new guy give us a description of the guy he remembers? Get all the details, hair, eye color, height, weight, complexion etc. You would do the community a big service and help get things back on track here. Tom Kaye

I talked to Sluggo several weeks ago. He is fine but is recovering from some medical issues. He was supposed to post up here to say hi but it must have gotten away from him. I can't say I blame him for not keeping up with the thread. Tom

All, We got this info from a Canadian Sleuth. James Hugh McDonald Age 46 Height 6'1" Weight 175 Brown Suit Horn rim glasses private pilot Flew in and out of French Canada Last seen 12-7-71 From the database it doesn't look like anyone else from 1971 stayed missing. Interesting? yes/no?? Tom Kaye Picture on file here http://www.macp.mb.ca/results.php?id=r1065

All, This came in tonight via email from a citizen sleuth. I didn't know the Lewis was navigable, if so I think this is interesting. Comments?? "Good Evening Mr. Kaye, I was wondering if the FBI had checked for fingerprint records on recovered stolen boats from shortly after Thanksgiving 1971 in Vancouver and Portland? If there were fingerprints associated with the old police files then some of those prints could match the prints they took from the aircraft? I think Dan Cooper survived his plunge into the night and I was wondering about ways that he could have gotten away without anyone really noticing a strange hitchhiker with a funny sack or himself having to carry a 20+ lb sack of money to a car he may have left parked along I-5 for days. From the sky, Lake Merwin makes a rather distinct shape. Boating happens up and down the Lewis River and even if he couldn’t aim at a specific part of the river, it’s only about 20 miles from the Merwin Dam to the Columbia River. Boaters have always sort of left their motorboat keys in the boat ignition – on a dark and rainy night, with a bit more luck than he deserves, Dan Cooper could have floated to the Columbia before even having to waste any gas on turning over the engine. I thought he could even have taken the boat as far south as Albany, if he decided to continue past the Columbia on to the Willamette. That is if he was an engineer or executive at Oremet... The money found on Tina Bar lends credence to this idea, I think, even though he could just as easily walked there – it really isn’t that far if he was fit and willing to lug that bag with his makeshift handles. I don’t know if this is a unique idea or if it has been thought of and discarded. I just kept looking at maps on your citizensleuth site and comparing the locations of the flight path, money find, drop zone, etc. Did you know that less than 5 miles upriver from Tina Bar on the Columbia is an Alcoa plant that shares part of it’s land with a Bonneville Power Administration substation? Very interesting stuff... Thanks for taking the time to read this and I wish you well with your endeavors." Tom Kaye

NOW we are making some sense. Communicating is a whole world away from locating. We use multiple video cameras to detect meteors coming through the atmosphere and even with sophisticated software we can't locate them very precisely. TK

I too am shocked by the apparent willingness of this forum and the FBI to go with this story. Certainly the case is a pain in the neck for the FBI but to close it on such flimsy evidence would shock me. Tom Kaye

Carol, Al and I had a great time. I was very happy to meet everyone in person and see old friends. Even people on opposite sides of the fence were friendly to each other and maybe it's a good thing the trouble makers stayed home. EVERYONE was really delightful and the buzz in the air was great. The most interesting thing that surprised me was people showing up that had been directly involved in the actual search for Cooper or the money in 1980. If it happens next year, I would try and round those people up in a special session to hear their stories. I learned a lot from the talks. 377 did a spectacular job on the parachutes, the Foreman's and Marla filled in a lot of blanks. Great intro and volunteer support from the Oregon History team, THANK YOU! Notes: Sluggo, H and others were surely missed. Way more people than I expected and most stayed to the end. Marla I think will take Jo Webber's place as the reigning Queen of Cooper Land. Bruce was INCREDIBLE on stage with the poem. Much more likable guy in person than I imagined. I STILL want to meet Amazon! Props to Brian for donating one of the few bills left to charity, big heart from a great guy. BRAVO! 377 and his lovely wife were everything I imagined and more. I want them to move in next door. Jerry Thomas, I was somewhat worried that my talk would create friction but that was not the case. Jerry was great, we hugged and agree to be on opposite sides of the argument. I concur with Bruce that the new feeling is that the public is now steering the Cooper ship. I would have bet any money I could put on the NB 8 without experience, I was DEAD wrong. Thanks to Geoff and his team for making it a great success! Tom Kaye

Hello All, After three years we are very happy to finally announce that we are going public with our research. Thank you for your patience. In order to make it accessible to the most people, we have created a website for the work and hopefully parsed it into digestible chunks. I will be on the road this week but will do my best to answer any questions. Thanks, Tom Kaye www.CitizenSleuths.com

All, I am making a rare appearance since this is going in the wrong direction quickly. First off, we never told Geoff Gray that there was Ti sponge on the tie. He got that from someone else. You should ask him how he obtained that info if you talk to him. We told him not to publish it but he did anyway. Anything related to titanium on airplanes is pure speculation. There is nothing on the tie that links the owner of the tie to anything having to do with aircraft. We have looked at literally thousands of particles on the tie. The shear quantity held hope that unique particles could lead back to his home town or place of business. The signatures of the particles unfortunately usually have multiple sources that can be attributed to them. This then requires multiple types of particles that all point in one direction. Most importantly that direction has to be agreed upon not only by us, but by outside experts. We are still working on this aspect of the research and that's why it's taking so much time. We can tell you that nothing on the tie points to any of the current batch of suspects. If anything, particles that should have been on the tie were not, and in our opinion, this rules out any suspect that was living in the northwest. Of course you can always argue that lack of evidence is not evidence. We are trying very hard to be able to release all of our research information before the anniversary. Thank you for your patience, Tom Kaye and the Cooper Research Team

All, Just so you don't spend any more time on this, the chemical marker we have been looking at on the bills is a post discovery contaminant. We expected to find additional artifacts on Tena that had the same thing, but we didn't. A discussion with an outside source suggested we try testing for a compound not in our normal range. The compound tested off the chart. At this point I am not sure we even have a paper. The compounds identity I am holding back until I talk with everyone because many of you will want to roast us for it. When you act as responsible scientists and check all the possibilities, this can happen. So at this point in time, no chemical ID, no story and this is not BS. Tom

Intelligent questions deserve intelligent answers. We looked at the holes. We don't have a hole specialist on board. Its not part of the focus of our research and hence it will not be in the paper. Just commenting, I figured they were either from roots or some small critters. Boring worms or other such animals "we think" should leave fairly straight through holes like a book worm does. Roots tend to take a crooked branched road. Since we only have two bills that were not on top of each other, we don't think we can comment intelligently on the holes. You would really need the stack intact to say something. Tom

All, A lot has happened on this end this morning. I can no longer discuss FBI archive info with the public. We will be able to release info in the published paper. Before the window closes, I can tell you that there probably was a clay layer report, I am sure I must have seen it, but it was insignificant enough that I didn't bother to even photograph it. Tom

Wolf, I expect that it will be out around august. This means it has to be submitted in june. Safe, Thanks for taking the time to make the video and having confidence in us. Bravo that you actually went to the site and did float tests. My teams reputation is at stake here and we are keenly interested in doing the proper research and not jumping to conclusions. Everyone on the team has changed their opinions several times when new info came in. I at first believed Cooper landed on TB and buried the money. Couldn't have been more wrong! I can say that our chemical signature took a bad hit just this afternoon from a search on the internet. We must now do additional tests to determine if the signature is important or nothing at all. I have been down this road many times and know the pitfalls to watch out for. We could make mistakes in the end, but scientific publications as I have said, require release of info so others can catch your mistakes. Thanks Tom