Hooknswoop

In this case, risk of a collision. An AAD does not change that. I prefer to to avoid a collision where an AAD might be needed. Derek

Don't like the hard questions? Derek

The purpose of a reserve is different form an AAD, hence the difference. So you are OK getting knocked if you have an AAD? Doesn't that mean you aren't treating an AAD like a back up, but are depending on it to mitigate risk? Derek

I am willing to accept a certain amount of risk. Let's say I could put a number on it, 1 to 10, ten being the most risk. Say I am willing to accept a 8. What gear I have on my back does nothing to change how much risk I am willing to accept. I don't understand how an AAD can make someone willing to take more risk. I am willing to accept 8 on a scale of 1 to 10, an AAD does not change that. If I am an 8 on the risk scale and I feel a 3-way head down dive is a 9, then it is too risky for me to do. I don't think an AAD makes the dive any less risky. There is the same chance of something going wrong, I just have a better chance of surviving if something goes wrong. Derek

Then we agree. Some people apparently think it is OK for someone that feels a jump is too risky, to go ahead and do it anyway because they have a Cypres. Derek

The ends justify the means? You are OK with Skyride lieing, cheating and stealing as long as you like the results? Derek

You didn't answer my questions: The alternative to my opinion is that it is OK to tell someone that thinks a skydive is too risky for them, go ahead and do it, youll be fine because you have a Cypres. Is that OK? Yes/No Or, telling yourself, "Self, I know that this dive goes what beyond what I think is safe, but I have a Cypres, so I'll go ahead and do it anyway". Is that OK? Yes/No Or as a load organizer allowing 10 of 50 jumpers to get it on the 50-way that don't have the skills for it because they have AAD's. is that OK? Yes/No And I never said different and I did say you should wear an AAD. We agree here. Would you make a jump where you felt that there was a high chance you would be knocked out since you have an AAD? Derek

I never said large number. I said too many. Derek

Want to take a go at my hypothetical questions a few posts up? Derek

Hmm. How about installing everything, then taking the cutter out of the elastic to get any twists out? Just trying to come up with a way to prevent it in the future. Derek

No one wants to answer my questions “yes”? Why an AAD is different from a reserve. An AAD will hopefully deploy your reserve in the event you are unable or forget to pull your main or reserve. A reserve is there in case your main fails or you are unable to deploy your main. I think it is a good idea to endeavor to avoid situations where you might need an AAD. This means not going on skydives you feel have more risk than you are willing to accept. If you do go on a skydive that has more risk than you are willing to accept because you have an AAD, you are accepting that you are placing yourself in a situation where the likelihood that you will need an AAD to save you is more than you are willing to accept. I don’t think it is wise for jumpers to put themselves in situations that carry a higher than they are willing to accept risk level, accepting, for example, a chance of a collision that will cause them to need an AAD. If I suspend 50 pounds from to ropes, each able to hold 50 pounds, then one rope is a back up in the event one fails. If I put 100 pounds under the same 2 ropes, I no longer have any back up rope. If a jumper does a jump that exceeds their personal acceptable risk threshold because they have an AAD, the AAD is no longer a back up, like the second rope is no longer a back up. Derek

Like -M's, Smarts only have 4 slider stops. They doin't have them at the "D" lines. This was one of the things I didn't like about them. Derek

Cool, glad you figured that out. I never thought of that. Makes perfect sense though. To make sure I got it, the cables where run, the cutter put into the elastic, the box into the pouch, then the cables looped up before stowing them under the flap. Then, because there is now a twist in the cutter cable, it rotated the cutter because it can;t rotate the box. Sound right? Would you agree that the way to prevent this is to not install the box into the pouch until after putting the loop(s) in the cable(s) for stowing under the flap? Derek

I don't think you should go beyond your personnal limit of risk. If the main is too risky, for example, too small, a reserve doesn't off set that risk. If you are willing to jump the canopy, then it is not too risky or past your personal limit for risk. I understand that and disagree. Who thinks it is OK to convince a jumper to go do a jump they feel is too risky for them because they have a cypres? What I mean by this is they didn't have a Cypres, you would agree with them that the jump is too risky for them. I would never tell a jumper, "I know you think that 400-way is too risky for you, but you have a Cypres, you'll be fine, go ahead and get on the 400-way" Who thinks that telling a jumper this is OK? I think a 30-way head down dive is too risky for me, for several reasons. The amount of risk on the dive is more than I am willing to accept. Should I go ahead and go do a 30-way head down dive because I have a Cypres? Chances are I'll land under a open canopy, right? Is this all that matters? You didn't answer my questions: The alternative to my opinion is that it is OK to tell someone that thinks a skydive is too risky for them, go ahead and do it, youll be fine because you have a Cypres. Is that OK? Yes/No Or, telling yourself, "Self, I know that this dive goes what beyond what I think is safe, but I have a Cypres, so I'll go ahead and do it anyway". Is that OK? Yes/No Or as a load organizer allowing 10 of 50 jumpers to get it on the 50-way that don't have the skills for it because they have AAD's. is that OK? Yes/No These are the alternative to what I am suggesting. Derek

What I consider acceptable risk didn't change. Let me try it this way: The alternative to my opinion is that it is OK to tell someone that thinks a skydive is too risky for them, go ahead and do it, youll be fine because you have a Cypres. Is that OK? Or, telling yourself, "Self, I know that this dive goes what beyond what I think is safe, but I have a Cypres, so I'll go ahead and do it anyway". Is that OK? Or as a load organizer allowing 10 of 50 jumpers to get it on the 50-way that don't have the skills for it because they have AAD's. is that OK? Chances are very good they will all get canopies over their heads, but chances are good they will be running into each other, going high and low, etc. But if it all about the numbers, the numbers look good. Derek

That is what I think people shoud do, not go above their risk threshold because they have an AAD, but some people do exactly that. Let's say I think a 50-way is too risky for me. Why doesn;t matter. It could because I don't think I have the ablities I should or I don't think others on the dive have the abilitiues they should or the winds, whatever. The bottom line is I feel a 50-way is too risky. An AAD doesn't decrease the risk of that 50-way. It decreases the risk that if something bad does happen, I'll survive. If I do the 50-way because I have an AAD, then I am depending on an AAD to make a jump that is too risky, safe enough to do. I don't think an AAD should be used in this manner. I think that is the same as running a red light because you have airbags. If you think running a red light is too risky, the risk of something bad happening is the same regardless if you have airbags or not. The difference is the airbags may save you. I hope no one would run red lights because they have airbags, and I hope no one would make a skydive they think is too risky because they have a Cypres. I suppose it is just a way of looking at AAD's, but isn't my way of looking at AAD's safer than using an AAD to make jumps that are too risky? Isn't not doing the 50-way even with an AAD safer than doing it with? What is wrong with saying that 20-ways is the max for now (or whatever your personnal risk limit is) and sticking to 20-ways, even if you get an AAD? Why tell a jumper that it is OK to do that 50-way they think is too dangerous as long as they do it with a Cypres? Derek

OK. I would always skydive with a reserve. I would pack, maintain, and choose my gear as if I didn't have a reserve. Probably a BASE main. I would treeat skydiving like I treat BASE, no reserve. I would decide about jumps like CReW, bigways, etc as if I didn't have a reserve and probably wouldn't much over a 4-way and wouldn't do CReW because the chances of needing a reserve are too high. The optional reserve would not factor into my go/no-go jump choices. Basically I would skydive like I didn't have a reserve. Derek

No. You are better off if you do a 400-way because you feel the risks are acceptable, not because you feel a Cypres will off set the unacceptable risks. I agree. I also agree, but I feel that if you make a jump you consider too risky because you have a cypres, you are depending on the Cypres to offset the risk to bring it down to an acceptable level. I see this as running a red light (something you consider too risky to do) because you have airbags. I don't think this is a good idea. I don't think telling somene that says; "I don't want to go on this 2-way because I think it is too risky.", "Ah, you'll be fine, you have a Cypres." is a good idea. Derek

I don't understand this part. This is exactly what I have been saying, we agree. I am afraid that I cannot articulate what i am trying to say well enough and it is causing misunderstanding. That is why I keep trying to explain it, not to convince people my idea is right, but so that people will understand it. I apologize to everyone if I am not coming across this way. I have a gear tips list. Does everyone use them? No, and that is fine by me. I put the info out there, people will have to decide for themselves if it makes sense to them. I am honestly not trying to ram my idea down anyopne's throat, just trying to make it understood. Derek

Not so fast. 1) I think having a Cypres, especially for a 400-way is smart. 2) Do you think the odds of "that guy I can't see coming from behind/above." on the 400-way are too high for you? The risk is there and only you can decide if a) what level of risk you are willing to accept, and b) if the risk of a 400-way in this case, is above or below that acceptable level of risk. I also don't think people that use a Cypres to exceed their own limit of risk to do a 400-way should quit jumping, they just shouldn't exceed their own set limit to risk. For me, I think the risks of a 400-way are big, but my level of acceptable risk is even larger. I am willing to accept the risks of a 400-way. The fact that I would wear a Cypres for a 400-way if it was at all possible does not change that my personal opinion of my own max risk is above the risk of a 400-way. I think I would be not being as safe as I could be doing a 400-way w/o a Cypres. Edit: I am dividing the risks into 2 catagories. the risk of a collision or other problem. That risk is not at all affected by an AAD. The second is bouncing from that problem. I think everyone should have a Cypres just in case, but I don't think people should use it to lower the chances of a collision in their minds. I don't think they should think that "this jump is too risky for me, but is something does happen, I have a Cypres." If a cypres should be used to allow people to make a jump they consider too risky, where does it end? Should a jumper with 20 jumps go do a 400-way since they have a Cypres? the Cypres makes it unlikely they will die if they screw up and hit someone knocking themselves out, right? If that is all that matters, then why not let anyone with a Cypres go do any jump they want? Why not 100 jumpers with 50 jumps and an AAD going and doing 100-ways? If all that matters is the numbers, then it shouldn't matter if 100 jumpers with 50 jumpes a piece go do a 100-way. Derek

It is not that simple. Again, as I have said several times before, I think it is OK you won't exit an airplane without a Cypres. I think you should jump a Cypres. The critical piece of information needed to decide if you are device dependant do you think a 400 way has a higher level of risk than your personnal limit? If a 400-way does not (in your opinion) carry more risk than (in your opinion) you are willing to accept, then no, you are not device dependant. If a 400-way (in your opinion) has more risk (in your opinion) than you are willing to accept and use an AAD to 'make up' the difference, then yes, I think you are device dependant. You have to figure it out for yourself, because it is based completely on your determination of the risks involved. Derek

My first priority is to avoid the collision in the first place. Failing that, avoiding dying. I think putting as many layers between you and bad things is the way to go. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you are advocating jumpers going ahead and making a jump they think is too risky because they have a Cypres. For example; Let's say a jumper thinks a 50-way is too risky. They do a risk asessment and because of the number of jumpers, the abilities of those jumpers, their abilities, or whatever, they think a 50-way is too risky for them to do. But they just put a Cypres in their rig. I think they still shouldn't do the 50-way. Do you think that because they now have a Cypres, they should go do the 50-way? Avoiding incidents. Safety. I would think it is a fairly safe assumption that almost everyone has the same goal of avoiding incidents and being safe. Derek

No, it rests on the assumption that having an AAD does not reduce the odds of a freefall incident such as a collision. I am putting my opinion out there for people to evaluate and discuss. If people disagree, that is fine. If we have made people think about risk asessment, their own limit of risk and how much risk they expose themselves to, then I have accomplished something. BTW- You have said that somwone ALWAYS misunderstands and that I have to make sure no one misunderstands, but haven't answered how I am supposed to do something you say is impossible. Which is is since you can't have it both ways? If I feel running a red light carried too much risk of a collision for me, how does airbags change that? Derek

It's not OK in either case to make a jump that goes beyond the risks you are willing to accept. Irrevelent since reserves are mandatory, but since you asked, that would be up to the individual to decide if taking risks under your main at altitude wsithout a reserve is within the amount of risk you are willing to take. I dunno, probably not many. Not enough information to answer. By niche, do you mean the group that I think are using an AAD to justify making a jump they think is too risky? My point is: Do not make a jump you think is too risky just because you have an AAD. Decide if you will make the jump as if you didn't have an AAD. Derek I'm trying, but you keep editing, adding questions. I don't understand the question. What risks would you accept because you have a reserve that you wouldn't accept (if reserves were optional) if you didn't have a reserve? Would the "certain risks" cause you to exceed what you feel is your limit of the risk you are willing to take? If yes, then you shouldn't exceed the limit of risks you are willing to take, regardless if you have an AAD or not. If reerves were optional and I never jumped with one, I, and 3 of my tandem passengers, would have died 14 times in 3333 jumps. Skydiving, especially with a HP main, w/o a reserve is way beyond my personal acceptable risk threshold. * Determine your personal acceptable risk threshold and don't exceed it because you have a Cypres. Derek

It isn't OK. Don't accept more risk than you have determined you are willing to accept. If you feel 50-ways have too much risk, don't do 50-ways. Would you wear a reserve it it wasn't mandated by the FAR's? I would. But I would (and have) also BASE jump without a reserve. Different animals. Would you run a red light? Woiuld you run a red light if the car had airbags? What is the difference? Derek