Hooknswoop

Not at all. I would organize 500-ways. And you could be on it. You are getting hung up on a point I didn't make. I didn't say go take your AAD's out of your rigs. My point is don't use an AAD to offset risk down to an acceptable level. The risk should already be acceptable and the AAD should make you that much safer. Look at my 5-mph over and 10-mph over analogy. The 10-mph over has an airbag and that is great. They choose to drive 10-mph over, not because they have an airbag, but because they can handle it. The airbag is a bonus, making them safer inthe event of an accident. The 5-mph over driver uses the airbag as a crutch to drive 10-mph over even though they shouldn't. Even though they are both driving 10-mph over with airbags, the driver that increased from 5-10 over because of the airbag isn't as safe as the driver that would drive 10 over without the airbag and has the airbag just to increase their safety level. From the outside, they look identical, 10-mph over and airbags, but they are different. And probably the only one that knows theya re different is the 5-10 mph over because of the airbag driver and only if they are brutally honest with themselves. Derek

I don't know either. It is a point of self reflection. You would have to look hard into yourself, putting ego, id, etc aside and really see what is in there. You would have to be brutally honest with yourself, something that is very lacking in skydiving. Derek

The difference is risk is how much danger you are exposing yourself to. Safety level is how safe you are. If the risk exceeds your safety level, you are probably going to get hurt/killed. For example, if you are jumping a Stiletto 107 loaded at 2.0:1, you are at a high risk level. If you have 50 jumps you have a low safetly leel and stand a very good chance of hammering in. If you have 1000 jumps on the canopy, 3,000 jumps total, are current, etc, you have a high safety level and stand a low chance of hammering in. A 100- way can be a risky jump. If you have a lot of RW experience, are current, etc, your safetly level exceeds your risk level and have a good chance of being OK. If you have very little RW experience or low jump numbers, your risk level exceeds your safety level. Using an AAD as a crutch to increase your safety level above your risk level is foolish. I think my 5-mpg over/10-mph over example says it very well. The airbag doesn't give the person that can safely drive only 5-mph over the speed limit the added safety level to drive 10-mph over. Increased experience, better reflexes, eyesight, etc can do that, but not an airbag. My point is some jumpers use AAD's and other back up safety devices as a crutch so they can make a skydive that their abilities alone would not allow them to do. If you can't handle a 100-way without an AAD, you shouldn't be on a 100-way with an AAD. If you can't drive 10-mph over the speed limit without an airbag, you can't drive 10-mph over the speed limit with an airbag. Some jumpers are driving 10-mph over because they have an AAD, etc that are only capable of 5-mph over. Derek

And 16 pounds over the max TSO'd weight. Derek

Yes, the difference is one is actually exposing themselves to a risk level they feel is too high without even knowing it. Take 2 drivers. Based on their abilities, reaction times, experience, etc, one won't drive more than 5 mph above the speed limit, the other won't drive more than 10 mph over the speed limit. The 5-mph over driver doesn't have an airbag, the 10-mph over driver does. The 5-mph over driver buys a car with an airbag and decides they can now drive 10-mph over the speed limit. Do you see the flaw in the thinking? Are they taking the same risk, 10-mph over the speed limit with airbags? What if the airbags in both cars are broken and won't activate in a collision and the drivers do not know they are broken? Derek

No, that is not what they are for. They are supposed to increase your safety level so you are safer. Exactly, but the big way/AAD example does hold water. If a jumper considers a 100-way too dangerous. Then they buy an AAD so they are now safer. They decide that because they have an AAD they will now do 100-ways. That is not what back up safety devices are for, they are counting on that AAD to lower their risk level. If is shuts off unbeknownst to the jumper, they are now unkowningly accepting a risk level they consider too high. They are also negating the added safety an AAD can offer by using to offset risk. Does a vented canopy open faster, always, than a non-vented canopy? If yes, then I am simply selecting the right tool for the job. I am still accepting a higher risk level, regardless of the canopy, by jumping a lower object. Poor example. A better BASE analogy would be would I pack sloppy because I had WLO toggles? Of course not. I wouldn't pack sloppy because I had a way to clear a slider up lineover, that would negate the added safety benifit WLO togggles can offer. Choosing the right tool for the job can reduce risk level. That is a completely seperate discussion. I am discussing negating the increase in safety a back up device can offer by accepting a higher risk level because of that back up device. Bill Booth's example was he designed a deployment and release system that allowed a jumper to deploy, cutaway, and get a reserve out in 500 feet less altitude than before. So instead of being safer rigs, jumpers started pulling 500 feet lower, negating the increase in safety. This is akin to driving faster because you have a car with an airbag, negating it's increase in safety. Derek

That is not my argument at all. My argument is that some jumpers negate the increase in safety back up devices offer by increasing the risk they accept because they have them. A reserve is considered ‘standard equipment’, like a seat belt in a car. Read Bill Booth's post, I put a link in one of my above posts. Driving faster because you have ABS or an airbag is silly. Jumping on a big way because you have an AAD is silly. They both negate the increased safety benefit of the device in question. Derek

This isn't about trusting technology too much, it is about using back up decives to offset increased risk, negating their increase in safety they should provide. Derek

Florida. Brush is closed right now. Derek

Right, so the jumper must decide if the risk is acceptable or not, without consideration given to an AAD. Of course not, unless that back up is counted on to reduce the risk level to an acceptable level. Like I linked to Bill's post above, unfortunately people will probably negate the safety benefit from it. Exactly, you shouldn't tailgate because you have ABS and you shouldn't do a big way because you have an AAD. Derek

Bill Booth was right Derek

But that is exactly what people are doing when they will do a big way (for example) because they have an AAD. They are driving faster because they have an airbag, it is the same thing. Airbags reduce the likelyhood of injuries or death if the driver is involved in an accident just like AAD's reduce the chances of bouncing if the jumper doesn't pull for whatever reason. It is commonly agreed that you shouldn't drive any differently because you have an airbag, but people will make a jump they wouldn't because they have an AAD. I don't see any difference. If the jump is too dangerous without an AAD, it is too dangerous with an AAD. Derek

Because a) multiple emergency procedures complicates what needs to be as simple as possible, b) if the Skyhook fails to operate and the reserve doesn't inflate in time, I'm dead, and c) my odds would be better firing a reserve into a mess than cutting away at 400 feet. I would have a lot of fabric over my head for sure, making a survivable landing a good possibility. I would either go in with not enough of a canopy over my head or land a fully inflated reserve, depending on if the Skyhook worked and if it didn't if the reserve inflated in time. What if you were at 100 feet and had the choice of cutting away (and either living or dieing completely dependant on if the Skyhook worked or not) or firing the reserve into the main (and hoping for the best)? Would you drive faster/carelessly if you had an airbag? Derek

If the risks are too high without an AAD, then they are too high with an AAD. Derek

500 ft Just fire the reserve. It would depend on several factors. I would either fire the reserve or not based on those factors. Too many skydiver negate the increased safety potential of safety devices by increasing their risk level when they have them. I strongly disagree with this practice. Derek

28: No 0: Yes Can anyone explain to me why someone would make a jump with an AAD they wouldn't make without an AAD? I see it as the same reasons listed above appling to AAD's. You wouldn't rely on the Skyhook to do it's job and cutaway any lower than you normally would, but some people would make a jump they normally wouldn't because they have an AAD. I don't see a difference. Derek

Why or why not? Derek

Because the FAA requires ripcords for the reserve. Derek

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I have more jumps on a VX-60 @ 3.1:1 than you have total. You may abstractly know the possibilities, but you don't know how likely those possibilities are. How well can you fly the Stiletto? How many jumps on it? Hint: 400 jumps on the same canopy and you are getting a good handle on it. I seriously doubt all your 400 jumps were o the same Stiletto. What size is it? What size Katana were you looking at? What model an size are you looking at from Icarus now? You don't know what you don't know. You are the sterotypical downsizing too fast and don't realize it skydiver. Derek

I dunno, didn't ask. Remember, manufacturers are not all knowing. Derek

When they demonstrate it, they start with 1 up and 2 down. All you would have to do is flip the 2 down up and it is solved. When you get to play, they give you 1 down and 2 up. Since you have to turn 2 at a time, you'll never get all 3 up. It's a trick. Derek

Nope, the pic is a 1.75 buckle. Mirage's don't have 1" buckles. Derek

The manufaturer of the hardware says it is reversable. Derek

What model and size canopy are you trying to demo? Doesn't the second sentence contradict the first sentence? Derek