georger

There is a surprising amount of metal on an NB6 or NB8. It is distinctive stuff (buckles, snaps, rip cord flex housing, pack opening band springs and hooks, riser connector links etc) and would likely get noticed if found in Cooper LZ territory. I think Cooper would avoid a fire. Too visible to searchers. Amazon, will a surplus rig burn with self sustaining flame? 377 It melts first... but if you get it hot enouff.. the webbing and pack material.. as well as the suspension lines.. and canopy will burn. building a BIG white mans fire under a canopy being used as a fire circle canopy... can get UGLY.. a shower of dripping, flaming nylon is scary shit. Flash ignition temp of nylon is ~750F. Average road flare burns at +1400F. Once the nylon is ignited its a self sustaining fire (highly flammabile) especially in the presence of other burning materials (wood etc). Easy way to dry and ignite wet wood etc... especially pine.

True... and soooo frustrating. Somewhere is a much larger piece of evidence: Coopers rig. Unless it is underwater it is likely to be found someday. He had no reason to hike it out if he landed alive. All he'd want to do is hide it from searchers while he walked out. 377 all he had to do was burn it and he the means... and the time.

I know what the word means. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe all it is is Jo has acquired a new larger monitor somebody installed for her, and with that change in her vista she now feels she and WE can control the State of Washington, and that could lead to controling the Universe. Jo never thinks small. Wake me when she divides fishes and loaves to feed the multitudes. Jo Weber/Duane Weber is a "symptom" in the Cooper case, not a primary ingredient.

Here/s a novel thought - Is 'Jo Weber' an example of the kind of effect Cooper hoped to have? Were his aims as much political as financial? - Is 'Jo Weber' a piece of evidence in this case? She is if Cooper intended this effect! - Beside his physical evidence there are only two pieces of other evidence in this case. The rear door placard torn off when Cooper opened the door. And money at Tina Bar. Two actual events caused two pieces of evidence to be left. If we take this at face value and assume everything Cooper did left actual evidence, then not only are misanthropes like Jo Weber evidence, but the lack of other hard evidence "is evidence" - a direct association! The facts of the case have produced exactly the evidence found. That means Cooper lost the money but probably got away. He probably lost the money somewhere near the upper Washougal tributary system but placed escape above locating his lost money pouch. The placard was found almost directly under the flight path and the money came from exactly where it landed then arrived at Tina's Bar via the flood of 1977. * Hydrologist Bradley speculated that had to be within ten feet of one major tributary in the Wasgougal drainage basin. The Jo Weber Effect is collateral evidence of Cooper's hijacking and escape fueling public misanthropic imaginations! The other hard evidence is thus complete with nothing else to find (in Washington) and consistent with the facts. The missing link in this case is "the facts and evidence are complete and consistent". There is no other evidence to find (in the State of Washington) but the fact this is not apparent has lead to the notion of missing evidence! The socalled missing facts and missing evidence have been a phantom, just like Jo Weber. This case is complete - we just didnt see it! Case complete.

Vague definitions are . . . vague. Define "near future". Is that anything like "the end is near"? The first part will be happening within the next 60 days and the repercussion for that action will determine the future of lots of individuals - unless the FBI steps in and stops things. According to one person who was involved in a similar Cooper related activity many yrs ago he and others were paid a visit by some very important people. I questioned if this did happen, but given the FBI reaction or lack of reaction to things I have put in front of them WITH NO investigation of specific information, I expect he was telling the truth. Second part of this will happen at the disgression of other parties and that will be their option to speak or forever keep the secrets of the past - but I think the way things are starting to fall into place - that we may be able to present a unified group who is fed up with how this has been handled. to this point. As it stands right now there are several writers putting a lot of their life and their money into books about Cooper, but without the efforts of those who really count. The people still living who participated in the hijacking as hostages and victims are some what alarmed about how the writers are going to handle their character and these individuals will not recieve any moneys nor have any control over what is said about them. The truth will be coming soon, but everyone has to be in agreement....it has been too many yrs and too many secrets. When dectectives, writers and jerks invade private lives with falseshood - people get upset. After almost 40 yrs - there are those who intend to take this situation into their own hands...and end it - it is time for it to end. The actions of some who have participated in regards to the crew and passengers have been overbearing and the lies are not going to fly. Maybe it is time for them to tell their own story - rather than others speculating and talking to their family members and friends in what is considered an unethical manner. This story has continued to line the pocket of everyone but the victims - that is going to change. Nonsense.

You may be right G. How do you get the power to Earth? Tether cable, microwave beam? I can see skydivers/base jumpers scheming about climbing tethers. I must be missing something in the Cooper Cold Fusion analogy. Norjack to me is simply a whodunnit. Cold fusion is a whatizzit. 377 Microwave it down and bring down charged fuel cells - thats the easy part. The political, economic, distribution, vested interest part is going to be a nightmare. We literally have to start living off nearby space, the Sun, and the Moon .... ASAP! ... and there is no human way around it. If we dont we face extinction rich and poor alike. There is the other option: sit and do nothing. Keep things just as they are and let Nature do it for us or let Nature take its course, which means a lot of strife and suffering with uncertain results, very likely more wars, and with enough time we might stumble on something brand new in physics which opens up new opportunities, and makes the exploitation of our resources easier and more definate. Past history may be the future ... I look in on the Cooper case from the outside just like any other puzzle. Its a pretty simple puzzle as far as puzzles go. What is making it so difficult. Who made this thing!? Microsoft?

Cooper isn't like cold fusion. Cooper is more like Jack the Ripper, but a far less vicious criminal. 377 Cooper is exactly like cold fusion to me! Thats a great metaphor. Do you realise, most people in LE right up to the Federal level, are not technically trained to any great extent in the areas of forensics, science, etc. Their training is elsewhere because the bulk of their time is spent doing other things and employing different thinking strategies .... as well as if a violinist is not trained to do cement construction! .... or a FBI guy knows about isotopes! ... or a cook knows molecular chemistry! .... of a bioengineer knows squat about painting a house! ... it is all an occupational training and life experience matter. Nothing strange about this. And yet a lot of people expect FBI agents to be God and know "everything"! They dont, no more than the avewrage citizen knows or can do everything in their venue of life. Or your local butcher could do brain surgery! For these reasons this is why I have always taken HUGE exception to everything Jo has ever said or expected with respect to the FBI ... and Snowmman likewise... we all have vested and learned experience.

Is that true? Has neutron emission from the Pons Fleischman type cells been positively verified? I havent followed cold fusion. I am more interested in chemtrails and voices from the grave, you know, that Coast to Coast AM stuff. The inventor of electrically scanned television, Philo Farnsworth thought he had invented a practical fusion power source called the FUSOR and even patented it. Turns out it DOES produce neutron emission and they are built today for research work, but they don't give a net power gain. Cooper isn't like cold fusion. Cooper is more like Jack the Ripper, but a far less vicious criminal. 377 yes neutrons have been detected however they are very low yield neutrons not at the energy levels normally associated with (hot) fusion. They may be a secondary effect, not a primary byproduct of an actual fusion reaction - that is the whole issue, ie., chemical reaction vs. nuclear reaction. So far there are no commercial advantages in this technology. The energy-economy equation has changed for our species. I see future energy production needs being generated in space and not on the Earth. That is our only real option -

3000 jumps. Zero trips to the doctor. Zero reserve rides. Nothing to talk about. I'd say that qualifies. I agree - but it may be the exception to the rule in today's radioactive climate. Cooper is like cold fusion. Nobody can deny there is an effect. The question is, what does it mean? People just dont vanish without a reason. Heat in a cold universe hovering at about 3 degree above absolute zero, just doesn't occur without a reaction of some kind (something reacting). All I can say is there are a lot of strange things going on by a lot of very strange people ... something explains the inexplicable! I dont buy Jerry's explanation for Cooper vanishing in the Washougal, any more than Snowmman did. He was swept out to sea via the Columbia? Thats all too convenient. Before I believe that I will believe the Cooper Hijacking was a training exercise because many facts support something like that, up to and including the very fact that of all the people involved in this event one person actually fits the physical profile of Cooper (in general terms) and that is Mr. Rataczak! Did Rat serve as the model for the sketch? Its quite coincidental to me. They thought he had bailed but dont back to look? Baloney. We know they went back - its in the transcript. The transcript itself looks to me like a concoction. 20 minutes of missing tape right when he bails? This case appears to defy plausibility and the ordinary constraints of symmetry. If you follow the normal curve of probability which applies to just about everything else in the world, one of two options follows: he either got away clean and nobody knew who he was or would talk, or there was no hijacking in the first place! There is a value in setting up the opposition I have established above. It either forces one to explain how Cooper got away (vanished) OR you have to admit this crime never happened at all.

I made the poster, with a little help. The milk carton idea might have worked . I got to wondering if wanted posters work better and have more public exposure vrs missing posters -which are people likely to pay more attention to? As for Tom, Tom should speak for himself. Otherwise I think things are on hold - I actually called Tom by mistake the other day. He probably doesnt believe that but its 100% true. I needed to talk to Tom ______ and two numbers came up on my pad so I dialed the first and Tom Kaye answered! He identified himself and I hung up embarrassed as hell (shouldnt have done that). So I called the correct Tom, then called Tom Kaye back and we had a long conversation. I still feel like an idiot the way it happened so apologies Tom! if he's reading this. I really didnt mean to have it happen the way it did - - - hope he's ok. The other Tom I needed to talk to is the Treasurer for a group I belong to and we needed to talk about something important, so my mind was totally focused when Tom answered. So again, Tom K, I apologise. As for Jo its the same old story isnt it? You havent made a knat's worth of progress with her in two years. Jo is secretive because she has nothing. Exactly as Sluggo says: those who talk... etc.

the FBI: Maybe the FBI's approach was wrong ? attached - 'PLEASE HELP US BRING DANNY HOME!' [edit] and yes, the word 'threw' is intentionally misspelled.

- has been mentioned and covered many times here. I guess some of us dont get read here. It doesnt exist until 377, Snow, and you say it exists.

article date: Feb 2008. It is today Feb 23, 2010.

You know I don't like all the insults but they were pretty easy to ignore when they were just words on a screen. I side with Bruce. It's hard to be merciful when someone is jabbing a stick in your eye, I do understand that. ???????????????????????????????????????? Your active lobbying based on the flawed rationalisation above has fueled everything. Now that Snoemman has been kicked out this will give YOU and YOURS the opportunity to have your own group just as youve always wanted, for mutual entertainment, minus Snoemman of course. If you lobby long and hard enough maybe you will even get Quade to let Snoemman back. As Ckret said: "we're taking er all down'. But you 377 are raising it back up. You're a gambler. What da hell - That about covers it, I t'ink. .

I will comment once only - I will miss the rational Snowmman but not miss the irrational Snowman. The irrational part overwhelmed the rational part, and most of us along with it to the point it was hopeless to even do anything, but go along... You can add demeaning, insulting, entitled, intolerant, domaneering, and other adjectives to your list above.... to the point of a complete dominance on Snowmman's part. Its wasnt so much the quality of his work but his powerful insults and intimidation, and wild claims... He kept "HIS" investigation and MACHINATION going and stifled and demeaned everything else. Snowmman was good at finding people and things and that will be missed. It was from that you got your leads... Snowmman thought more of himself than anyone or anything else here - that includes you. Maybe he had a problem none of the rest of us know about and he had to do what he did -

I hope this is ok but I need to post charts for Galen Cook. attached below. Galen attached is the SURFACE chart issued 6:00pm, so would encompass your 4:00pm baloon data.. I believe. Correct me if I am wrong. You described winds coming in from SW off Pacific, but notice this cold front descending from the NW. It is the collision of these two fronts that sets up the convection cells rotating, I believe, This creates a multi vectored convective system with left hand rotation which I show a breakdown of on the last chart posted ... lookthis over --- see what you think. I think the basic seasonal pattern Oct-Dec is ascending warm air flowing to the NE (from SW off the Humbolt current) which by late Octiber begins to collide with heavier mass 'descending' cold fronts from the Arctic. Your man may have a better-simpler explanation .... Thanks, G

Great and thanks! Thanks for trying to answer my question - Come back any time you want to. Its safe here now. Regards - Georger

The C9 is used in jet ejection seats and also in bail out rigs for aircrew who do not have ejection seats. . It is a rugged VERY strong canopy. The suspension lines run from riser to the skirt then all the way up to the apex and down the other side back to the opposite riser connection point thus reinforcing the entire canopy structure. Many sport rounds just attached the lines to the skirt band. The C9 was designed for the survival of pilots, not for maneuverablilty or forward speed. Since bailouts and ejections often occur in bad weather I assume that stability in turbulence was a factor considered in the design and selection of the C9. I can't imagine any round chute being much better than a C9 in turbulence as far as staying inflated goes. I've never jumped in stormy turbulent weather so I really dont have direct experience with canopy performance in such an environment. In a downdraft the round canopy is moving in the airmass and will go down with it the same way it goes with horizontal wind. Just think of a downdraft as vertical wind. If a C9 were in a microburst with 50 mph vertical downdrafts it would go with the airmass and hit the ground with roughly the speed as the microburst winds. People get confused about relative winds. They assume that a parachute would descend far slower than the downdraft it is in, a conclusion which I say is incorrect. My semi educated guess is that Cooper's C9 stayed inflated if it was deployed and was inflated when he hit his first terrestrial object. Even if a round collapsed it would inflate again after falling some distance. Riggers and aero engineers know a lot more about canopies than I do. I just know that my C9 was not a soft landing canopy (high descent speed) but it was tough as hell and I never worried about collapse or structural failure. Lightly loaded ram air canopies can get very touchy in turbulence. I have flown paragliders (whichg are lightly loaded ram airs) and they are twitchy in turbulence near cliffs. I have seen videos of them collapsing. Never saw rounds do anything remotely close. What does AMAZON say bout this topic? She has pounded ground in rounds with the rest of us and I am sure she has her own C9 stories. 377 wow! Great response(s). Let me digest this and will reply later. I just arrived home. Followed some young man with Illinois plate and sticker in the back window that read: CALL 1-800-SKYDIVE. I just smiled. Had this forum on my mind. The gods must have sent him! I beeped him as I turned for my road - he beeped back politely! What a great start to the week - hope it ends this way... thanks Quade.

Never flown in wind shear so I can't comment on that. NB 6 and 8 just refer to the harness and container. The canopy I believe was a 28 ft dia. C9 round unmodified. Those kinds of canopies are drag devices not lifting airfoils and as such are far more tolerant of turbulence, gusts etc. than ram air rectangular canopies. I have over 100 C9 jumps. I have experienced partial collapses in turbulence with dual surface ram air canopies but never in a C9. A C9, once open, will almost always get you to the ground OK. If it's windy you will have a horizontal speed roughly equal to the wind speed. An unmodified C9 goes where the wind takes it. 377 I found the following: Care to comment? """ What is the difference between the Evacuchute system and a round parachute? Round parachutes have a radical opening and are less stable in the air, oscillating and deflating easily. Round parachutes require a higher minimum deployment altitude due to the canopy's pulse or "breathing" effect upon opening. These parachutes are traditionally used by the military for deployment of troops and dropping heavy cargo loads. The Evacuchute parachute canopy is designed to perform reliably in extreme turbulence and weather conditions. In these conditions, the main effects to a parachute are up or down drafts. Since the Evacuchute works on the principle of air resistance, it is designed to keep maximum pressure in the canopy. So, no matter how strong, turbulent or swirling the wind is, there is no excessive air spill and the canopy always remains inflated. Extreme weather will affect the descent rate and the ability to control landing location may be limited. However, there have never been any incidents of parachute deflation or fatalities in extreme weather with the Evacuchute parachute canopy. (Model JU-40 in the Bureau of Civil Aviation records.) " http://www.evacuchute.com/faq.html So why have I posted this? __ Cooper bailed into turbulence. No doubt about this. That turbulence has never been defined... __ Ckret said he/FBI spoke with mil jump people who catagorically said they would not send people out to jump 'in those conditions'. Nobody including Ckret ever spelled out what 'in those conditions' was. Several people are trying to articulate that now using the NWS charts for 6:00-9:00pm of that day. __ We have operated here under the assumption a round chute was more stable. More stable than what? In what conditions are they more stable? Cossey said the round chute was the best choice. In turbulence? Maybe not! __ Cooper only bailed from 10k feet or slightly lower. That means he was subject to ALL of the turbulence between 6500-3500 and 3500-ground very likely including cross winds associated with rotating cells. A closer inspection of the forces (given our charts) would give us a clearer picture of exactly what any jumper would have encountered that night ... which goes to a probability of injury/survivability. Nuff saide - [Solderlind was an expert on aviation windsheer and familiar with the winds patternsa long V23]

Pete, We all hope you will at least post information about your jump history - and keep it simple for us. All of your various experiences jumping in the the states, not the war storie, but about your life in general here in the states. Of course we are all curious about why the FBI considered you in the Cooper Caper. You are the last of the old timer jumpers and we would love to hear your stories. I think most here would even agree not to ask specific questions and if we do just ignore us. I have already posed questions. Beyond that I wont interfere or say anything unless he replies to me -

No known relation to the Collins who the Night Clerk registered. 377 I have a question for you - What would happen if a jumper in Cossey's NB8 was caught in a svere down draft (or side draft) below 3500 feet? Could this result in a sudden loss of support for the chute (luft?) or a quick trip to the ground? Maybe a related question is, how do chutes of this type handle wind sheer below 3500 feet?

Art Collins founded Collins Radio Company in Cedar Rapis Iowa. Very famous guy in the world of communication radio gear. At least some Collins radio equipment is aboard most airliners. Collins makes a lot of military avionics. They used to make high end ham radios too. No known relation to the Collins who the Night Clerk registered. 377 I didnt even think of that. Good grief! No relation whatever... Holy crap! Do you know for example one of the gun turrets off the USS Threasher in mothballs at SanDiego, became a alt-azimuth mount for a huge radio dish .... a project Art and his guys got involved in to help a university? There are a million anecdotes like this ... not just of Art but the whole generation of guys who worked with Art ... and most of the guys that worked with Art were just as brilliant as he was ... a very special generation.

Was Bob feeling a little guilty about living among the rich and famous? I guess and outhouse and an old car would make it kinds OK to live in Malibu. G, do you have a picture of Bob's Malibu car? I do think the FBI was just floored by Norjack. They had investigated air piracy cases, but no AIR was involved. This one was pure flight (aeronautics) and flight (escape). They were in way over their heads. That's cool that you knew Art Collins G. What was he like? 377 I dont know anything about Dylan's Malibu car? Art was a very quiet composed guy, brilliant, good listener, kind of a perfectionist (would spend hours on small problems), with a very good nose for crucial details. He liked reliability-dependability not just in machines but in systems and people also. Everything had to be reliable and logical, right down to the packaging. I heard him ask a grad student once if his 'idea could be packaged'. I thought it was a little off the wall until I realised this was a man who was a systems engineer. Art had a real knack for chasing down ideas and people who were working on the forefront of some experiment or project, not just in radio but in antenna designs, radio astronomy, physics ... his flare in attaching himself to important experimental work surfaced even as a kid and it never diminished. Here are a few urls that put everything in perspective. I hope you read them - http://digital.lib.uiowa.edu/uipress/bdi/DetailsPage.aspx?id=71 http://rockwellcollinsmuseum.org/aa_collins/aac_story.php http://www.linoesposito.it/collins.php http://www.rockwellcollins.com/about/history/index.html http://www.collinsmuseum.com/aacbio.html see attached -

sorry about that ...

Good stuff! Youve outdone me. Ill think something up after The Amazing Race and Olympics and be back - maybe they will have found Cooper in the meantime! Oh. Here's Bob Dylan's outhouse at Malibu. The one he got sued over ...