Sluggo_Monster

Pardon me for posting something about NORJAK right smack in the middle of this fantasy “Lawyer-fest.” On March 22, 2006 Prairie Mary (screen name for Mary Strachan-Scriver), the wife of the late Bob Scriver, born in 1914 on the Blackfeet Reservation, and best known for his internationally acclaimed bronze sculptures of Indians, the rodeo and wildlife, made a post HERE that I found intriguing. Here is part of the post: My mother's cousin worked for a motel and often had amusing stories to tell. One of her favorites (often repeated) was that when she cleaned rooms occupied by couples she often found on top of the dresser or bedside table a neat little pile of toenail clippings… … She also claimed that D.B. Cooper stayed in that motel the night before he jumped out of the airplane with all that money. She was interviewed by the FBI. Mary is the author of several books and makes a lot of posts on art blogs, but I have been unable to locate an e-mail address or other contact information. I have the following (questionable) info from a Facebook page: Mary Strachan, Female, Kingsville Ontario, Canada If anyone knows (or can find) some contact info for Mary, I’d like to ask her if her Mother’s cousin is still alive and then make an attempt to talk with her. I’d love to know; What motel, what they asked, if anyone at the motel saw the person, etc.? Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Jo, I’m really tired and don’t want to make a long, convoluted, drawn-out post, so here are some excerpts from my notes on Camp Sibert. I have highlighted the issues that answer your questions or lead me to understand how Duane ended up there as his first training assignment after entering the Army. Duane’s military career: 06/18/1941 - 5/30/1942 (11.5 months) US Navy. Never above the rank of APS 2nd. Court Martial 2-18-1942 and placed on six month probation. "Bad Conduct Discharge" for probation violation. Attempted to re-enlist around November 1942, denied on November 18, 1942. 03/31/1943 - 07/14/1943 (3.5) US Army Inducted at Ft. Hayes, OH 03/31/1943 two weeks later already at Camp Sibert. Never above the rank of Private. In letter to mother on 04/15 1943 states; "I have one more week on probation, then I can go anywhere on base." (Less than two weeks at camp.) Given "Undesirable Discharge" 3 weeks later. Notes on "Bad Conduct Discharge" vs. "Undesirable Discharge": "Bad Conduct Discharge" - Court-martialed felons "Undesirable Discharge" - repeated petty offenders Notes on Camp Sibert: Camp Sibert was acquired in July 1942 by the U.S. Army as a replacement training center for the Chemical Warfare Service (CWS). The second Chemical Warfare School was also established there during World War II. At Camp Sibert the CWS conducted various training exercises such as smoke screen defense, chemical decontamination, chemical depot maintenance, and chemical impregnation of clothing. Chemical soldiers were also involved in smoke generation missions. Letter to Mom was signed with a reference to " Co. A (or D) 2st CWS (L written over and converted to C) Trng Regt Camp Sibert, AL. U". Unit actually was "2nd CWS Training Regiment Camp Sibert, AL" War Department directives provided that chemical warfare training should cover the fields of smoke, incendiary, and gas; yet the primary concern of the CWS prior to World War II was unquestionably with gas. Since the service had been created by Congress as an answer to the military threat of toxic chemicals, the status of the CWS as an independent technical service could scarcely have been justified if it were not prepared to cope with this major menace. Fear of gas was largely fear of the unknown, and its antidote was, in large measure, to acquaint troops with toxic agents and how to counteract them. To impart such understanding was the primary training responsibility of the Chemical Warfare Service and the point of departure for the whole CWS mission. The training of troops in protection against war gases to insure survival of an enemy attack and the training of CW units were both done at Camp Sibert. Camp Sibert, established in Alabama’s Etowah and St. Clair counties in 1942, was a replacement training center for the CWS. Training included such tasks as smoke screening, chemical decontamination, chemical depot maintenance, and chemical impregnation work. During exercises, fuming sulfuric acid (FS) (a solution of sulfur trioxide dissolved in chlorosulfonic acid) was dropped on troops from airplanes to simulate aerial mustard attacks. Camp Sibert was equipped with a Field Filling Area (spray tanks with FS), a Toxic Gas Handling Area, a Toxic Gas Yard, and decontamination operations areas that supported decontamination training in which chemical agents were used. Training at Camp Sibert ended and the camp was closed in April 1945. In July 1947, the Technical Escort Detachment conducted a survey of Camp Sibert. Toxic gas areas were located and subsequently decontaminated in accordance with the standards of the time. There was a public outcry to use poison gas against the Japanese. The US Military made preparation to do so, but only if the Japanese used gas themselves. As a result, each unit had at least one soldier who could use the 4.2-inch Gas Mortar and handle the chemical and gas shells for the mortar. If toxics were used, they would be expected to instruct the others in the unit. While at Camp Sibert, units and individuals trained in basic military training. This is "Basic Training." While at Camp Sibert, units and individuals also trained in the use of chemical weapons, decontamination procedures, and smoke operations. The 4.2” chemical mortar was the heavy weapon of choice at Camp Sibert. Although it was originally designed to deliver chemical agents and smoke, it was also adapted to fire HE rounds. Conclusions: Camp Sibert was a Recruit Training Command (RCT). The existing RTC moved from Edgewood Maryland to Camp Sibert in the summer of 1942. All recruits in the CWS went to Basic Training at Camp Sibert in the period of July 1942 through 1945. Beginning in the fall of 1942 a second command was added (Unit Type Code (UTC) unknown to me). Conclusions Specific to Duane: Duane spent 11 months in the Navy and was given a Bad Conduct Discharge for probation violation. He successfully enlisted in the Army and was assigned to the CWS upon enlisting. He was sent to Camp Sibert for basic training but only lasted there for 3.5 months. He was given an Undesirable Discharge. The fact that he attempted to re-enlist in the Navy and successfully enlisted in the Army, indicates that he was never a "Conscientious Objector" (CO). That's why I dropped Sibert as an "Area of Interest." Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

I see that you finally discovered it was a different document (than the sig card). Yes, Sluggo has a memory, it's just afflicted with CRS (Can't Remember Shit) I'm glad I specifically asked for your input... I knew you'd be helpful. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Jo said: You’re welcome. No I don’t know what georger was saying isn’t true. I don’t think it’s true, but I don’t know that. I just didn’t think it was right for one of the people who keeps slamming you because you never provide any evidence to go with your claims (a group that includes me), to make a statement (that is a challenge to your character) without showing some evidence that the conversation ever took place. I wasn’t taking sides, just asking georger to be fair about it. If I were you (or Duane’s friend) I’d drop the “lawyer-ing up” talk. This is the internet, not real life. That would be a major waste of time, money, and effort. And… don’t forget that you have made some pretty ugly assertions about georger on this forum. (He is a plant from the CIA or FBI and is just here to discredit you). What goes around, comes around. Now, back to what interest me today… those signatures. About the one you can’t ID, the date in the filename tells YOU (probably not others) what document (card) it is from. Got it now? I don’t know why I never noticed it before. I was looking at the Sibert letter and thinking about his backward–slanting (left handed) writing style. On the stack was the other document. I said; “Whoaaaa… this can’t be right.” I don’t think the signature differences have anything to do with NORJAK. But, I do find it odd and intriguing. As I have said before, your research of Duane’s life leads me to believe Duane had something major going on… but nothing in it indicates he was Cooper. [I’m beginning to think; “Federal witness protection program.] In a future post, I’ll finish yelling at you and tell you why my Camp Sibert research led me to believe it had nothing to do with Duane being “special” and definitely why it doesn’t link to Cooper. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Georger (so eloquently stated: No ass-kissing required. I just stated (it the same post that you blew-up at) that I valued your opinion. Everything you said about me in this post seems to apply to you. Think about it! Go back to DEFCON 4 (or 5) and take a look at those signatures. They have nothing to do with Cooper, but I (we) could learn a lot from them. Sluggo (Jo’s personal researcher)

377. Thanks and Ditto. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He says Jo asked him to back the story because she was launching a real estate business in Florida and needed the publicity. The man says he refused and told Jo 'never call me again'! But Jo went forth on her own with her story. He says it never was Duane's story during Duane's life but only Jo's story, after Duane died. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You made this statement... not Jo... not Sluggo! You want me to confirm it? You throw a rock into a pack of dogs and you always know which one you hit! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

This is assinine. Agreed, your response is. Boy! you blow-up easily! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

377 Said: Ouch! I’ve spent a lot of time working on Jo’s claims without compensation (more than she is aware of, (based on one of last night’s posts). I was in the process of making a post (reply to Jo) about how unbelievably ego-centric and non-analytical she is. While I was going through my “Sibert” research I noticed something that threw me for a loop. Hey! Seriously… I need some opinions especially a “handwriting expert’s.” I don’t know squat about handwriting, but I do know the “Which one is different from the others” game. I especially value snowmman’s and georger’s opinions on this. As far as I can tell most of them were written by a “strong left hander,” but one was not. You all know that Jo has been making this extraordinary claim about Duane doing service for someone else or visa versa (I don’t remember because I never thought it had any basis), look at the samples of Duane’s handwriting below. They range from 1942 – 1956, which may be part of the story. The only modification I did to these scans was to remove some ‘Personally Identifiable Information” (PII) from them. I will finish my rant to Jo when I get output from you guys. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yeah… Sluggo knows something… Now it’s georger’s time to provide proof. Where did you get this information? You can’t hold Jo to one standard and yourself to another! I’m “pissed as hell” at Jo right now, but I won’t fall into the “rumor pit.” Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Maybe this is “piling on,” but what the hell! Well Jo, you’ve done it again… Your post says nothing. Just a bunch of anger and hinting (teasing) that a solution is near. Skyjack71 said: Jo, that’s BULLSHIT… PURE BULLSHIT! I studied Sibert’s history, talked to folks at Anniston (Ft. McClellan, the current CBRW site), I talked to some people at Parsons (the decommissioning contractor) and put boots on the ground in Gadsden to see what the place looked like. I found out that the camp was (racially segregated) and discovered a story stating that the all-black unit of mostly illiterate and poor blacks, were forced to participate in experimentation over their lifetimes, and were never compensated for the consequent disabilities nor given adequate medical treatment. In fact, most were declared paranoid schizophrenic and were given mind-numbing electro-shock therapy to erase the memory, which is one of the known effects. Incidentally, electro-shock therapy was never an approved treatment for schizophrenia. Supposedly, 30 -45 bodies of black men were found in a nearby cave, possibly the result of a 1944 riot (or chemical experiments) at the camp. I found out that German and Italian POWs were held there. Now, I could have made hundreds of monotonous posts here, ranting about the secrets the government was keeping, until everyone was sick of it. But, instead, I quietly continued my research, read Duane’s letter, looked for any clues, and decided I had nothing to report. Two things for you to think about (yes, you’ve heard them before): 1. Everybody that shits on you is not your enemy and everyone who pulls you out of deep shit is not your friend. 2. Those that know aren’t talking… Those who are talking, don’t know. You still don’t know who your friends are AND you still don’t know when to keep your mouth shut! See Sibert maps below: BTW: I had my entire gun collection stolen December 14th, 2006 and the FBI won’t do anything about it. They won’t even talk to me about it. Case closed! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

377 said: I believe they did for the first few years (of the party). An FBI agent told me that, but I can’t tell you who it was. Actually, I just can't remember, it was either Carr or Himmelsbach, since those are to only two FBI agents I have ever talked to (about NORJAK, I talk to a lot of them every five years for my clearance, and almost continually for friends, wife, and associates.) I believe the first party was the year the statute of limitations expired (1976). I don’t think the revelers knew about the John Doe indictment. Maybe D.B. didn't either! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

BTW: Did you know that there are at least 2 Jo Webers who are Real Estate Agents? One in Mission (near KC), KS and one in Keizer (near Salem), OR. Just some usless facts discovered while doing "serious research."

We really don’t know for certain that he wasn’t missed. What if he lived in Australia, South Africa, Bolivia, or even in Canada? Remember… it was 1971, communication (especially among LE in different countries) wasn’t anything like it is today. I agree, if he lived in the US, LE would have heard about most all missing persons that could have been possible suspects. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

All, This morning I had to get up at 02:00 to take Sugar to the airport (she’s attending a wedding near Seattle). Since it was too late to go to bed when I got back, I added some historical 1:250,000 scale topographical maps to the “Other Evidence” page of my web site. These are the maps that would have been used in 1971. Also, I finally located (in electronic form) the 1:62,500 scale topo map that the FBI LZ map was plotted on. I posted the LZ area. I also posted the three 1:250,000 Quadrant maps that cover Flight 305’s path from SEA-TAC to Portland, they are: Seattle, Hoquiam, and Vancouver. 1954 La Center Quadrangle Area of Interest This is a JPEG of the map the FBI used to draw the landing zone map. This map is a scale of 1:62,500 produced by the Army Corps of Engineers. As best I can tell, the 1:24,000 scale (7½ minute) USGS maps did not exist in 1971. That is why there are no modern maps with the La Center name. This map, last updated in 1954 was the current 1:62,500 scale map in 1971. I cropped this area out of the map to match (closely) the area shown in the FBI map. The resolution is very poor. I obtained the map from the State of Alabama map archives and the maps are displayed under the “Mr. Sid add-in” which does not export maps very well. I will be working on this map to get better resolution to post in the future. I will also Photoshop the lines to agree with the FBI map. This file is 1,097 Kbytes. Seattle 1965 Topo This map, last updated in 1965 was the current map in 1971. NOTE: This is a very large file. This file is 7,978 Kbytes. Hoquiam 1968 Topo This map, last updated in 1968 was the current map in 1971 NOTE: This is a very large file. This file is 8,859 Kbytes. Vancouver 1967 Topo This map, last updated in 1967 was the current map in 1971. This is a very large file. This file is 8,330 Kbytes. I hope some of you find them useful. If anyone wants to help me coax a better resolution product (the resolution is fine in the MR. Sid viewer) out of the 1954 La Center map… let me know. I have some .tiff files that show pretty good (but not great) resolution. I was hoping that I could produce the FBI LZ map with good enough resolution that one could use it if they decided to go hunt for dead bodies and/or left-behind rigs. Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Jo, You have lost all credibility with the posters here. SafecrackingPLF and I, over a year ago, warned you that you were doing it, , but you seem to be impervious to the observations of the people whom you claim to trust. You are wasting time and bandwidth, and with each post, you lose more and more creditability. Someone (it might have been me) suggested you contact Coast To Coast AM where you might build a small following of people who would help you with your quest. You could answer questions through a phone interview, so people could hear your voice, and really see who you are. I suggested that you should contact the producers of Jesse Ventura: Conspiracy Theory for the same reason. These are people who would lend you support… but you avoid them and continue to post on a forum on which you have absolutely no traction. Contacting these media outlets would be a way to get the help that you have continually expected others to provide, and at no costs to you. Jo, since I know you personally, I can say something no one else (that I know of) here can say. You are a delightful person! You are intelligent, a good conversationalist, pleasant to be with, a good dinner partner, and you have a keen sense of humor, but none of that can be seen on an internet forum. (I have no idea why you play that “dumb blonde” card, because it certainly isn’t true!) I do not know much about autism (I don’t know anyone who is autistic), but it is my understanding that the autistic sometimes can’t read the emotional response of someone that they are interacting with. That’s the way you communicate with the posters on this forum. (And, no… I haven’t forgotten who started this forum and why!) You keep doing the same thing, they (we) keep asking you to stop, and you keep doing the same thing again. So, I guess you are the cyber equivalent of autistic. I’ll call it cyber-autistic. You tease, and tease, and tease. You are asked to show some evidence (any evidence) or something that you think is evidence. But you continue to refuse. Why? Based on what can be determined from only knowing you from this forum, the only logical conclusion is that you are just seeking attention. Not help, not advice, not a better understanding, just attention (any attention). I know I’m being harsh, and if you understand that what I am saying is the truth, then, it may hurt your feelings. But, remember what I told you years ago in my little parable about the bird trapped in the winter: “Everyone who shits on you is not your enemy, and everyone who pulls you out of shit, is not your friend.” The only person you can change your condition (lack of credibility), your cyber-autism, is you. You must start today! Contact C2C. Contact Jesse Ventura: Conspiracy Theory. Stop posting teases, or at least offer some evidence (if only a hypothetical example that parallels the elements of your story). You might be surprised how many people would begin to help you and treat you with respect. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Dr. Tyson’s contact info from his “Official Website” link from the Hayden Planetarium gives me this: Hayden Planetarium Questions About Science Due to a large backlog, this e-mail is temporarily suspended. Questions About the Night Sky Due to a large backlog, this e-mail is temporarily suspended. Request a Speaking Engagement Schools, organizations, and corporations only. Request an Interview Press and other Media only. Administrative Inquiries Museum activities and programs General Comments Due to a large backlog, this e-mail is temporarily suspended. Other Due to a large backlog, this e-mail is temporarily suspended. Website Feedback Problems or suggestions for this website. So... you think he may be busy? Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Sluggo Said: I should have put a "" emoticon after that. It was a joke. I sometimes forget that even though we communicate a lot, we really know very little about each other. Those who know me would have known it was a joke (without the emoticon). I am somewhat “left-leaning” or at least perceived by most as “left-leaning.” I claim no affiliation with any political party or special interest group (including the NRA). I describe myself as “somewhat middle of the bird, but sitting on the left side.” I listen to NPR often. When I was at Hanford, I listened at least 2.5 hours/day due to the long desert commute. I am a very frequent, major contributor to Northwest Public Radio (even though I don’t live there anymore). I am an avid gun owner/collector, which pleases my “right-wing whacko” friends and puzzles my “bleeding-heart liberal friends.” The important thing is that they are ALL my friends. I’ll try to remember the emoticons for the sake of cyber-comm. Return to "Parade Rest". Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

NPR is too far left to allow me onboard. Remember…. I’m a wacko gun freak. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

georger said: Explain????? Was this cynicism, humor, bitterness…..? Maybe, astrophysical humor (you know about those astro-types).

377, You said: You are right, I noticed that Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson astrophysicist and personal hero of mine was on the C2C guest list. So, maybe the appearances on C2C don’t hurt him (Galen) as much as I tend to think (feel). As far as Gossett’s money problems… attached is an MP3 of Gossett’s own voice explaining why he had money problems. See if anything else “strikes you” about this snippet. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

This morning I received a comment regarding "The New Suspect and Another Book" on my Northwest 305 Skyjacking blog (Link in my signature line below) from Galen Cook. He talked about Tosaw and his relationship with/to him. He also said (in part): Is this a “Jo-style tease” or is he really onto something? I honestly don’t know. But, I have come to believe Galen is not the “boogeyman” I once thought he was. I just still can’t understand why he chose George Noory’s C2C radio show, a known haven for kooks of every stripe, to initially release his info. I’m sure he had his reasons, I just have no idea what they were. I think he damaged his credibility by doing so. Or, maybe just with me… who knows? He also hinted at a rivalry between Tosaw and Himmelsbach. I’d love to know more about that! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Jerry Thomas said: Jerry, I count Geoff as a friend (even though we have never met “Face-to-face”). But, I have learned not to get my hopes up when it comes to NORJAK. Remember the disappointment with the Nat Geo thing. If Geoff’s book is “earth shattering” I will be elated. If not, I’m sure it will still be an excellent reference. I have followed Geoff’s work (for New York Magazine and other news services) every since I became aware of him, I think he is an EXCELLENT journalist (rare in this day and time) with old-fashioned “journalistic integrity.” Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

All, I had some communication with Geoff after I posted Version 1, it seems that the expected publication date is very optimistic and will probably be moved out as there is a lot more work to do. As far as the book being earth-shattering… I don’t expect it to be. But I do expect it to offer a clear path of where the investigation has gone until now. I think it will tell the story minus all the “folklore.” You do know that serious research/investigation is ongoing at this time, right? The researchers/investigators all have learned from the past to avoid publication of ANYTHING until it leads somewhere. They’ve also learned to avoid this thread and its posters (myself included). We have discredited ourselves by the exercise in social masturbation* we have been participating in for the last year. Hey…! At least I can still get good info from George Noory and Coast-to-Coast.

It looks like Geoff's book will hit the shelves on August 3, 2010. You can pre-order from Borders. Skyjack: The Hunt for D. B. Cooper Geoffrey Gray Hardcover, 352 pages Crown Publishing Group August 03, 2010 ISBN13: 9780307451293 ISBN: 0307451291 BINC: 3047696 Edition: Hardcover $25.00 Skyjack: The Hunt for D. B. Cooper Geoffrey Gray Audio Compact Disc Random House August 03, 2010 ISBN13: 9780307735799 ISBN: 0307735796 BINC: 3084322 Edition: Unabridged Audio Compact Disc $35.00 Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Georger, After you posted your musings about a Cooper-McCoy connection, I talked to a couple of people to see what they thought about it. One who knows a good bit about NORJAK and one who is a Mormon (LDS). The NORJAK savvy individual said; “Nah…. I don’t think it’s likely.” The LDS person had the opinion that in some LDS communities, especially in Utah, Oregon and Washington, a family member committing such a crime (one where murder wasn’t involved) would (possibly) be handled within the family and not reported to secular (their term gentile) authorities. This would be the case if he got by with it or if he turned up missing and the family recognized him from the sketches. This person gave me a lot of background on how it would be handled within the family, but I don’t want to have a discussion about religious dogma and beliefs, especially concerning a religion I know very little about. Sluggo BTW: I visited the Amana communities several times while I was living in IL. I really enjoyed it. MAN! What great food! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum