Deisel

All valid points and skills that an instructor should have. But I think what this revolves around is 'exactly what does a student need from an instructor?' Night jumps dont meet that standard as well as several other things you mentioned. The IE is supposed to evaluate. If a candidate shows up and is on their game - they get a rating. If they are having a sub par day - try again next weekend. That is the system that USPA has established. So I dont think tht its the IEs that are the problem. Lets take another look at the system and good luck trying to change the one we currently have. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Thanks, Matt for that proper bit of motivation. I really do need to get a refill of optimism - it's been a long couple of weeks bro. D The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

I do not have the ability to ground anyone or pull a rating. Hell, I cant correct a coach that isn't willing to listen. Sure, people skills come into play and persuasion will work but it only goes so far. It starts (and ends) with the DZO. And once the DZO gives em' a good talkin' to, but needs a camrea flyer for the next load, now what? The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Yes the BOD provides some discipline but they are no where near responsive enough to matter. I have to wonder just how many complaints have to make it back to USPA for them to take action. And they certainly havent done much to deal with irresponsible canopy flight. Yes - they are making an effort but it comes down to the folks on the DZ. There has to be someone on the scene who's only concern is safety. But also has the ability to take action when someone isnt safe, regardless of their DZ status. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

One thing that Ive come to understand is that there is no accountability in our sport. Who enforces the rules? Who can pull a substandard instructors rating? Who can ground a jumper, enforcable nation wide? Who can fine, punish, discipline, etc? No one. It only truly happens when lawyers or the FAA get involved. In just about every system that I can think of there is some type of check and balance in place. In skydiving the people that are both the check and balance are the DZOs. They are free to do as they please or as they dont please. They have an obvious conflict of interest, which is the flaw of the system. Im not saying that they are bad people - hell, several are my friends. But as long as it remains we will continue to get what we already have. No one wants to be the bad guy and no one wants to be disliked. But in order to reprimand those that need it thats exactly what must happen. Its a very sad state of affairs. And unfortunately, thats exactly the way some of us want it. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Good point, but frustrating still. But I believe that this is certainly an area that should be looked into further. I understand that DZOs dont want additional supervision. But there is a conflict of interest that has to be resolved if we are ever going to close the gap between safety and making a profit. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

So who would enforce any of this? And what happens to someone that violates these or any other rule? The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

This thing of ours will only be as safe as we want it to be. If we arent willing to pay then we will continue to get what we have. If we arent willing to hold people accountable then nothing will change. Do we really want changes or is it just lip service? If membership dues went up $25 everyone would scream bloody murder. But wouldnt we all gladly sacrifice the cost of a single jump if it stopped another unnecessary accident? The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

USPA would have to write the checks. The problem with the DZOs being in charge of the S&TAs now is the conflict of interest. It simply must be removed from the equation altogether. Make the DZO accountable to the S&TA, not the other way around as it currently stands. I think the number would depend on the volume of the DZ. Seasonal Cesna DZs could probably get away with a regional dude (or dudette). But the big multi jump ship operations that go 7 days a week would need more than one. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

No argument here brother. I just think that a lot of TIs bet bashed a bit for having fun with a student. I think that its a case by case basis. Some people require the stregnth of the the holy ghost just to man up and drive to the DZ, let alone jump out of a perfectly good airplane. IMHO theres nothing with skipping the formalities and just getting them to smile and enjoy the ride. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

I agree complely that every tandem stu should be taught some basics. The soldier that landed with a deceased TM on his back was more than enough to convince me of that. I'm just saying that for most people it IS a circus ride. That's what they think they are buying. And there's nothing wrong with that. Giving the customer what they want is just plain good business. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

My point here is that the system does not work. We don't need more rules we just need to enforce the ones we have. I think that it's been identified by several people over the years that our biggest problem is that no one enforces the rules (over generalization - I know). So the question is how do we get people to comply with the rules already in place? The same way that people are forced to comply with other things that they don't want to do. You force them. USPA has to make a decision. It (we) can either continue to do what has been done in the past and expect different results or make bold changes that will directly address what we all know the problems to be. DZOs (not all) have a conflict of interest here. Safety vs profit. Should they be allowed to continue to make the final decisions about who should or shouldnt be grounded? No other industry that I know of allows this. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

In an effort to introduce accountability for pattern flying, why not make the S&TA a paid position? But NOT hired by the DZ. And not responsible to the Regional Director either. I'm thinking we could make a group of Jim Crouch Jr.s that work directly for him and don't have to put up with anyone's BS. At all member DZs USPA could assign the S&TA and have that individual be responsible for holding folks accountable for doing dumb shit in the air. Kind of like a full time FAA inspector maybe? I've brought this up before but no one wanted to hear it at the time, so in light of the recent incidents let's talk it up. This is just me thinking out loud and I have not tried to figure out every possible complication or conflict. Just an idea. Thoughts? The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Every person that walks through the door is not a potential future skydiver. The vast majority will never jump again and we all know that (Bucket list checked - what's next?). I'm not saying that you shouldn't train them but the facts are what they are. I have to wonder what the rate of return is. Maybe 5% ever come back for a second jump? Even fewer for AFF? D The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Probably not - Raeford Parachute Center. Is there another one? The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Good to hear Chuck! I'll be out of this shit hole in June my man. First beer back at RPC is on me brotha - boom! The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Boom! The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Wow. Outstanding work all around. Many lives were saved right there. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Somewhere around my 50 jump mark I bought a 190 loaded at about 1.1. I still jump the same canopy 3 years later and have just started to think about downsizing. It's a great canopy that will challenge you to fly it rather than being flown by it. But like others have already mentioned, you should probably wait a bit longer before deciding. D The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

It's FAR better to sit back and watch the carnage than to be the show! +1! The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Broham - I'm not the one trying to get info on this place. Help me help you. And it just so happens that I'm a NC jumper and would advise that you got to Triangle instead. Good, solid folks out there. And when you actually want to do some real jumping, head on over to Raeford. We'll leave a light on for you! D The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

'Nerfing' the sport? What I'm advocating here is having a plan - from start to finish. From the 20 min call to the debrief. Everything determined in advance. Sound familiar? And I get that everyone should have the ability to adjust in flight. I've landed out enough to understand that its a life saving skill. But at what point (number of jumps) is someone supposed to attain this skill? The ability to both fly a horizontal and vertical pattern, account for obstacles and other jumpers, figure out wind, as well as account for the FMD doing the intentional down winder? We certainly wouldn't expect a student to know how to do this and would be considered advanced piloting by any standard. D The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Might help to list where this place is supposed to be. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

I have never understood why having the first person down set the pattern makes any sense. I can determine exactly how and where I want to land before I ever get in the air. Why is this a mid-air decision? It's counter to what's taught in the ISP (plan you skydive from start to finish) and has led to confusion and near misses everywhere I've seen it done. Why not set the landing pattern before getting on the plane? The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Ya, mon! When you looking at going? If it's after 1 August, count me in! D The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.