masterrigger1

I, for one, consider it to be a detrimental effort as I think the majority of the riggers like the current method and seal type. And like John Sherman stated, "if it ain't broke..... But you can do a poll if you like. No, the solution that I would like to see is that the rigging committee move to focus on more serious issues like containers not opening , AAD's not working, and etc..... But then again, I am part of the problem by not being involved with the rigging committee. Maybe we can change that soon. I am retiring March 16 and will have plenty of time on my hands. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

You must have missed the document that I was speaking of. It is attached. The FAA issued a ruling that it MUST be a lead seal that is used no paper seals are allowed. So if you are a FAA master rigger and your pack jobs are used in the USA, they must be made of lead, not paper. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

No need to write me, the word I got on Wednesday From the FAA is that the sealing is going to stand as it is. As you well know, they just issued a document in January 2012 that stated that: 1. Sealing is required 2. The seal needs to be made of lead ..But you guys can spin your wheels if you want to. The real question, like John asked and the rest of us would like to know, is why exactly do you not want seals on your parachutes The example of the two ripcords is flawed as you can run seal thread to both pins and still use just one seal. I have done this with Super Pros and other center pull, two pin containers. It also can be done with containers with multiple pins,. Jerry, Why does the PIA rigging committee always approach things from a liberal standpoint? The committee never seems to achieve it's goal anyway when they do approach from that standpoint. ...which in most cases like this, a good thing! See ya at Daytona, Mark Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Jerry, Last post on this... You are missing the obvious. I have stated and posted the FAR that requires a seal to be installed... Now the ball is your court to show me a FAR that allows it to be removed. While I don't claim to walk on water, I do claim that sometimes my opinion matters... MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

The document shows that the FAA is serious about seals and how they want them installed. Intent of regulations are held up in court everyday. For example speed limits are set with the intention of keeping traffic at or below a certain speed.... While I am not employed by the FAA, I along with the other DPREs are usually held to a higher standard in their eyes. For example, I am usually asked to give my interpretations on certain subject matter to the powers to be. I am sure other DPREs are asked to do the same. Also this exact subject matter (lead seals) was one of them before the document that I posted came out. Jerry, I will have to ask you point blank also since I know that you are a certificated FAA rigger. Do you or do you not understand that the seal is used to identify the rigger and prevent tampering of the pack job according to the FAA? This exact question is asked in the written exam at least twice in each test BTW. With that said, I would consider a FAA test question somewhat of a document, would you not? This is the puzzling part. If the FAA spent enough effort to include sealing in the regs, backed it up with the document that I posted, included it in the inspector's handbook as action items to be checked during surveillances; why anyone would actually think it was there for mere decorative purposes. That is basically what you are stating BTW if you think the rig is OK to jump with a broken seal or simply without one. With that, I ask you why you think the seal is actually required to be installed? Cheers, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

65.133 requires all riggers to seal their parachutes after packing it. The manufacturer's instructions back that up with instructions to do it also. It is all about intent. Two questions here? 1. Are you a FAA certified rigger 2. If you are a certified FAA Rigger, do you not understand the intent of 65.133? If you are a FAA rigger, I have a real problem with someone not knowing the simple intent of that rule. Also, do you see instructions from the manufacturer or the FAA stating to remove the seal minutes later? I am pretty sure if you ask the manufacturer or the FAA if ripping the seal off minutes later is their intent, the answer would be "No". The recent incident at Monterey Bay sheds some light on the fact that the FAA is looking for the seal after an event like this. It is noted in the FAA report BTW... Also attached is a little more info on sealing. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

How about this! § 65.133 Seal. Each certificated parachute rigger must have a seal with an identifying mark prescribed by the Administrator, and a seal press. After packing a parachute he shall seal the pack with his seal in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendation for that type of parachute. This has already been a hot topic with the FAA with regard to two high profile incidents. The manufacturer's instructions end with sealing the parachute after packing and offer no other recourse. Not one manufacturer out there has instructions for anything different and the regulations hold the sealing of the parachute to "after Packing". The end result is that the seal is "to prevent tampering" (FAA interpretation after packing BTW...) and removal of the seal violates that purpose.. Cheers, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

The Consew 226 is simply a Consew 225 with reverse. Great sewing machine for heavier type work. It will sew up to and including "F" thread. It also has a horizontal hook. The 7360 is a single needle, drop feed machine that works great for light to medium sewing repair. It is a self oiler and when used with a servo motor, is a tame, easy to use sewing machine for the beginner. This is the same sewing machine that we use in Dave DeWolf's course. We have 10 of them there. Cheers, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Ken, There are actually four standard types that we use. 1. Drop feed (which you guys are calling bottom feed) 2.Needle feed (which you have already described) Needle and feed dog work together, Presser foot stays in place 3.Compound Feed This is again like you described with an inner foot and outer presser foot. The inner foot travels with the feed dog, but the needle bar stays in place. An example would be a Singer 7-33 or Consew 733 Harness machine. 4. Triple Feed Compound - This is a Compound Feed plus Needle Feed. An example is a Consew 206 RB. Cheers, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Text copied from other thread: John, It seems pretty vivid that you are stating that either: 1. You have not physically witnessed a line burn on a canopy or 2. Line burn never occurs on ram air canopies. or 3.You have not physically witnessed a line burn on a canopy because line burn never occurs on ram air canopies. Which one are you going with? John, If the left of center-tail is burned on the bottom skin, this indicates that more than likely a suspension line did it rather than a control line or an "A" line. If you don't believe that line burn occurs, I encourage you to spend more time inspecting some canopies in the field. Cheers, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Actually I think you did....twice in fact if you count this one too! http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4379286;#4379286 John, If you will look at the photo, you will see the tail end seam. You should also note the non-loaded rib stitching coming through the bottom skin of the #5 cell of a 7 cell canopy. Given the fact of where this is located, it would be hard pressed to think that person did not clear the tail when he/she packed it. I have plenty more photos if you need them. BS, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

I think it is a combo of both actually. The smaller lines seem to do more damage than larger ones of the same type. In order of abrasiveness, it probably is Vectran as the leader, Dacron, Technora, then lastly Spectra. Hope that helps, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

John, I hate to disappoint you but line burn occurs frequently on ram air canopies. I patch numerous canopies every year;probably install about 100-150 patches if not more. Most of these are line burn induced. The following just happens to be a picture that I have on my "traveling' laptop. See attached! It is very clear that this is line burn. Cheers, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

There are a couple of reason that I am against stretching the lines. As someone that has been in the Non-Destructive Testing field for 30 some odd years, It is my belief that doing this procedure is taking the material into the plastic stage for sure, Taking load bearing material, that is still to be used or placed back into service, into this state of deformation is not good. Line material can be subject to five states. 1. non-loaded state 2. Loaded state 3. Elastic 4. Plastic 5. Compromised, broken or breached state. To get Spectra, that has gone through a shrink cycle, back to a longer dimension than it currently has, there is only one state that will do it. That would be the Plastic phase or state. As you can see from the list above, you are right next door to the Compromised state. How close is the question at hand. If you have 550 Spectra, you can rest assured that it probably is closer than say if you had 725 Spectra. It would vary so much that I would not even know where to start. As I stated before, there are areas along the line length that have more shrinkage and damage than other areas of the same line. When stretching the line, the areas where the bundles are locked down will tend to go Plastic first, causing further loss of load capabilities. Think salt water taffy here.... The more plastic you go, the less tensile strength you will have. Remember that Spectra can start shrinking at about 190 degrees Fahrenheit. I have seen a canopy that was left sweltering in a hot car for a good length of time have this type of shrinkage. It was a canopy with less that 15 jumps on it BTW. PD does have alternate line types available and we also have them here. I think I have this covered just above a couple of paragraphs, but yes to some degree. The problem is that the A-B measurement is pretty critical to one another along with the brake set measurement. Get anyone of these two wrong and you could have serious issues. Just saying.... Happy New Year, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Brian, I hate to disagree with you, but I do on several points. It is not always slow. Spectra can start into a transformation state with a temperature as low as 190 degrees. As the the rate of heat rises, so does the shrink rate. If you have a traditionally slow opening canopy, the rate may be as low as an inch per 175 jumps. This would be an ideal rate of shrinkage. But then again, if you have a few fast openings where the heat was let's say ten fold the nominal number, then you would have increased and rapid shrinkage. This does happen BTW. I have seen canopies with just a few jumps have as much shrinkage as a canopy with hundreds of jumps. It just depends. This is one of the main reasons that we should all move away from Spectra as a main stream line material. It is a moving target of sorts. As I have probably written more on this subject (line materials) in these forums than anyone else (including yourself), I would have to say that I could not disagree more. First Spectra does stretch, but it will return to it's original length when unloaded or the weight removed. You can verify this over and over again on the line table.... The dimension changes that we see are due to the slider /line friction. The heat is the only culprit, plain and simple. I absolutely do not agree with stretching the lines. This is why: The lines vary in shrink rate along the length of the line. This is due to the friction increases and decreases during the opening. If you look at the carriers (twisted bundles) of the line weave, you will notice size and shape differences along the length of a used line. Also some carriers will be locked down with one another and others will be free. Stretching the line with these carriers locked down is a really bad idea. Plain and simple... just get a line set that does not have these issues to begin with!! For those of you that do not know me, I have for years been working on different line mediums to replace Spectra used on parachutes. We have had great success over the years. In that time, we brought out the first competition swoop lines, coated Technora, coated Vectran, and enhanced braiding of both materials. The result is that most manufacturers (including PD) have started to follow in both Icarus' and Skyworks footsteps with regard to these line materials. This is a good thing IMHO...better flying canopies for everyone! Lastly, modifying the trim is well.....a modification. ...and who can modify parachute things....legally? Cheers, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Are military riggers subject to the same rules as civilian riggers? *** That I do not know. But, the individual could hold both a military and civilian rating at the same time. And again, the question is what aircraft is he or she jumping from. BS, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

No one is slinging mud there Captain! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

It is not maybe why i think that. It is exactly why I know that! It depends on a lot of different things. One of which could be if the fabric was damaged or burned beforehand or during the same deployment. Line burn is the number one cause of "blowouts". JFYI. A distant second is weak fabric from age issues. The next tine that you remove some lines off of a canopy please note that the center "C" lines will probably be the hardest to remove from the line attachments. Your theory is skewed. I would rather have a hole in the fabric near the tail than near the nose !!! Thank you for your interest...I am going to do some research *** Be sure to let us know your findings! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Positive of it. Simple physics applies here. ....Probably because the high pressure zone is going to be the first area to blow out if the fabric is weak. You are confusing canopy pressurization with canopy load. ... Two very separate items! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Mark, One would expect the pressure to be somewhat equal front to rear after the opening and going forward in a straight line. A better name for the high pressure zone would probably be "the higher pressure first zone" in that higher pressurization of the cell starts there as the canopy inflates and/changes to flight are made. (.i.e, turns, dives, etc....) MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Usually considered the last one third (tail) of the Canopy. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Our standard for patching is that it has to be larger than a pencil eraser (the one on the back of the pencil....) AND in the high pressure zone. BS, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

If they are coated ( which I doubt) it would be so slight that it is not noticable even when looking at them very hard. You are right about the CSR coated line that PD, Icarus and a few others use....it lasts much longer than the other type. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Rob, Most of the Spectra has a synthetic coating and is not a latex coating. Cheers MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Probably a really tight one! I never liked the cutter location being on top of the PC AND being a really tight rig. Seen quite a few on those bent and/or cracked BTW on the Mirages. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com