erdnarob

Hello danielshadwick. Your question and concern are very legitimate. Everybody looking at that white loop holding the little ring of the 3 ring release would wonder if his life depends on that single "Strand". I can tell you that you worry too much about that part of equipement because this is probably the strongest part of your rig. EXPLANATION: The 3 ring release well built (rings have metal on metal contact) have rings which play the role of a lever (inter pivot kind of lever) which reduces the force by a factor of 8 for small rings and 10 for big rings and this twice. That means the reduction of force is 8 x 8 = 64 or 10 x 10 = 100 (one time between the big and the middle rings and another time between the middle and the small ring). Now the white loop going thru the last (small) ring behaves like a pulley and divides again the force by a factor of 2 . Results are that the force on a riser is divided by 8 x 8 x 2 = 128 for small rings and by 10 x 10 x 2 = 200 for big rings. At the opening the snatch force (acceleration force at line stretch) can reach for a short duration 2000 lbs. That makes 1000 lbs per riser. The maximum force on the white small ring loop is then : 1000 lbs divided by 128 or 200 which makes 7.8 or 5 lbs maximum. That loop is made of type IIa sleeving and should have a breaking strength of several hundred lbs (maybe somebody on this forum can give the MBS of that kind of loop) which makes a safety factor of more than 12 and probably up to 20. No componants of your rig has such an important safety factor. I had one time the chance to have my 2 3 rings tested (service bulletin) at the aeronautical department of the National Research Council of Canada in Ottawa. Sine I just wanted to test the rings and not the equipment I put a type 13 webbing around the big ring and at the other end I put an old riser. The test was made up to 2500 lbs per riser. The old riser and weebing were taut like steel bars. THe white loop of the old riser never show any sign of fatigue, no stretch, no deformation, nothing wrong at all, and the cut away cable was not bent by the loop. It happened that my rings were OK both sides (no permanent deformation or deformation inferior to 2/1000 of a inch as specified. OTOH I had made a knot in the webbing holding the big ring and never suceeded to release than knot. It was completely jammed, no wonder after 2500 pounds tension on a single riser. However, when packing your rig while it is flat on the ground you should protect that white loop from abrasion due to the friction with hard floor. Use carpet or packing mat. Is that make you feel better with respect to the safety of that white loop ? Your risers or leg straps will give up before it. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

I had two high speed mal "recently" out of a total of 6. Those two were my firt totals and have a certain similarity. 1) past August, my jump suit zipper gave up in freefall and probably because of the subsequent inflation of the jumpsuit, it seems that it was pushing up on the rig. When I came to grab my hackey it wasn't at the familiar location. After 2 attempts I went for the silver. That happened at 3500 ft. 2) past January, in Florida, I went twice to grab my hackey and couldn't find it. I pulled my reserve. In this case, I think that the hackey has been put outside the poach mouth but against my butts while I was trying to locate it at the opposite side of the poach. I have now changed my method. I go with my hand below the poach and slip it toward the poach mouth. In both case I had a perfect reserve opening and ride. However I noticed one thing, when I came to grab my reserve handle with left hand (thumb inside) immediately my right hand came and grabbed my left wrist to assist the pull. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

The question is the same kind that asking if we need to know and use the crash position in a perfectly good airplane. Yes we need to teach PLF since in many occasions that method can save life: EG : landing with a reserve with medium or strong wind, landing with a biplane (no flare), landing with a partially deployed canopy, landing with a canopy with several broken lines, landing with a big tear going from nose to tail...is it enough??? Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

Agree 100% with you, the LOOK is the main key. If they look they will pull. If they don't look they will pull on anything, jumpsuit, harness, chest strap.... and hopefuly the reserve handle. When I trained student on a suspended harness, this point is my main concern and I really make an effort to check if the student actually looks on his handles. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

BTW I did it but you could have missed it. I didn't want to repeat it that 3 x 2 times since the emphasis here is on one or two hands being used. Thanks. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

Thanks ufk22, when I mentioned I have a preference it was as an instructor and thinking of the student (I have also a personal preference for myself). A lot of people mentioned their prefer two hands. Isn't also a way for the student to likely do a barrel roll to the right? I know it's difficult to witness an actual case but maybe you can have a little idea when using a suspended harness??? Does anybody have comments about how the sudent does when using both hands while on a suspended harness. Tendency to roll sideway or else. My research here is to get as much feedback as possible so my friend and I can take a sound decision. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

A friend of mine is writing a first jump course manual. I did the review and we still have to decide which method to use at our DZ concerning the cut away for the students in case they have to do one. We can suppose in all cases that the student Identify, Decide and Does the action...and when doing the action he/she looks, grab and pull. Student equipement has a RSL installed. The student also throws away the handles after pulling them. The left hand thumb is always inside the reserve handle (if a metal handle is used) when pulling it. What do you think would be the best for the student (the most efficient method in order to have a clean cut away). 1) grabbing first the cut away handle with two hands, pull, when feeling free from the main, grab the reserve handle with two hands and pull or; 2) grab both handles at the same time (cut away handle with right hand and reserve handle with left hand) then pull the cut away handle first and when feeling free from the main pull the reserve handle or; 3) grab the cut away handle with right hand then pull, when feeling free from the main, grab the reserve handle with left hand then pull. Lets be serious. After 6 cut aways I have personally a preference but I would like to hear from you: students, instructors, jump masters... and more generally any jumpers interested. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

Keep that jump in mind as being a good lesson. It is surprising how the mind can cheat on us sometimes. That's why on the way up you should always review all facets of your jump. This is the advantage of airplanes not climbing too fast; they gave you the time for a couple of mental rehearsal. I recommend you to have a beeper or better yet, 2 beepers. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

You are a very gifted person. I am impresssed but your case is quite exceptional and is far from being a common type of practice. Remember one thing: habit can kill you like the telltale story about the guy who used to pull when seeing clearly the oranges on the trees, he dies the day the oranges have been picked up. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

A parachutist dies like anybody else on the surface of the Earth does. Back to serious thing, he will for many reasons: 1) unluckiness 2) a series of minor bugs leading to a big problem 3) lack of preparation 4) bad attitude toward safety 5) not knowledgeable about equipment 6) not knowledgeable about techniques to be used 7) because of the carelessness of others 8) ignoring his/her limit 9) health problem 10) airplane or/and pilot problem 11) no respect for the weather 12) landing at the wrong place 13) freefall mid air collision 14) collision under canopy any other suggestion? Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

I agree with you up to the point where the student reaches the end of the AFF program. No wonder, he has paid the big money. I also understand that big DZs need to be very efficient. But from my point of view the social part of skydiving is still the most important for the health of our sport. I invite everybody to read again a chapter or two of a related post of mine written in 2006 : > published on "Skydiving History and Trivia" forum on this site. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

Your students will be better and you will keep them longer if you are able to spend more time with them. S/L program is better for that because it takes more time. When will people understand that skydiving is a social sport. Beginners have to feel being part of the family. And yes, you can drop S/L jumpers from a Twin Otter like I have seen it at ZHills a year ago. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

There are many reasons why S/L progression is dying: trend, DZ need for fast money, fast education, wrongly considered as old fashion...well your choice. AFF if faster for sure but I believe this is not for everybody. Some people would prefer a slower progression and have more time between jumps to get knowledgeable about skydiving or in a word, getting more mature skydivingly speaking. Some facts show more or less as you said that after 20-30 jumps, you don't see a big difference between former AFF and S/L students only for the money they have invested. AFF required more sudden money especially if you register for the whole program and at some DZ, you don't have the choice. The best would be that a DZ offers the choice between AAF, S/L and also IAD (Instructor Assisted Deployment). That would please everybody. The advantage with AFF is that you use the same rig all the time. Same with IAD where the pilot chute poach has just to allow the pilot chute to be on the left side for IAD and on the right side for free fall. Some DZ are still using S/L and believe strongly in that program. A good example is Skydive Toronto Inc. which was the home DZ of Jay Moledzki, the canopy piloting world champion. No too bad for a S/L DZ. You have here the point of view of a jumper. I guess a DZ owner's answer might be quite different. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

I don't want to start playing with words. Being on alert mode means for me you do everything possible in order to keep problems away. Take a cliff climber, he checks its ropes and spikes and tools before climbing isn'it? He stays current with methods to be used and stays in top physical shape because climbing is very demanding on his body. He should know his limit and keep self discipline. He finally has to "respect" the mountain if you see what I mean. Well a skydiver has to do the equivalent. Being on alert mode is respecting the sky for what it is, fantastic, full of nice discoveries, strong sensations, full of overwhelming challenge but don't mess up with it because the sky can make you understand the hard way. You have to be well prepared. You wouldn't believe how the IQ decreases when in freefall, try for instance to substract 2 numbers of 2 digits in freefall and you will see what I mean. A close call will happen soon or later but you have more chance to solve the problem if you are well prepared. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

Go for skydiving cause nothing tops that. It's challenging, exhilarating, very social, different than other sport...what else. AFF program is fine but it's not the only one. Maybe you would prefer something like IAD program (instructor assisted deployment) . It all depends on your preference. For the equipment, you should wait and see after about 10-15 jumps if you are going to continue and put your money in a rig. But right now it's too soon for you to think about that. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

Very good thread for the upcoming season. We will never speak enough about complacency among skydivers. First those affected people think that since everything is OK so far for them then it will be the same way for ever. How wrong they can be. The worst enemy is yourself having the wrong attitude. At the safety awareness day most of the time people who attend are the ones who need the less a safety seminar since they get information continuously by participating to forums like this one. OTOH people who need the most to attend the safety day are not showing up. Why is that? Very simple, an ignorant ignores he is an ignorant while people with some knowledge understand that there is so much to learn and realized that there is a lot of stuff that they don't know. Now to be more practical;this winter as a rigger I gave a packing course (35 hours) to 6 students. I believe this is the basic for a beginner. Good packing habits is one factor to stay healthy. Riggers and instructors on a DZ have an important role to play by promoting good practices like for instance showing the newbies how to interpret a pilot report on winds aloft to determine a good spot. As an official at the DZ you should show a good exemple by following the basic safety rules when jumping. Anyway, safety should be a constant preoccupation on a DZ and time should be allowed to give some seminars about it during the season. How fragile can the safety be sometimes. Just something I have in mind right now is the main closing loop as an exemple. At the end of the winter the air is dry then a canopy is quite bulky to pack (static electricity) and you adjust your main closing loop accordingly for the beginning of the season. Then in July you could easily not pay attention anymore to that loop which can be too slack now because of the high humidity making the main volume less bulky.The consequence can be a main container opening and if this happens at the wrong time, safety is compromised. Doing an extreme sport mandates that we stay on an constant alert mode when skydiving and this about equipment, techniques, knowledge, attitude...etc Have a good skydiving season everybody! Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

Personally I don't like the idea to hang up a rig for a long time when it's equiped with metal anti twist chanel in the risers. Those chanels are made with the same material that classical rip cord housing and are telescopic telephone type tubing. When you hang up such a rig, you have for weeks or months a permanent weight of 20-25 LBS applied to both metal chanels. As somebody said, if your "hook" have a large radius (3") which makes 6" diameter, I guess that would be OK. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

A audible altimeter is a very nice device especially when you are doing formation skydiving. I set my first alarm at 5000 ft most of the time. After that I work with my wrist altimeter. By the way I have 2 audible altimeters, one is a Protrack as as computer recording the free fall data and the really audible one is a Time Out which I like very much cause it "wakes" me up when too I am much focused. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

I had a Sabre 2 with a wing loading of 1.5 and on an average of 10 jumps, the vertical distance lost at opening was 340 ft. I would say 400-500 ft is an ideal situation (fast enough and confortable). My Katana opens softly on 600 ft which is still OK and provides me with always the same openings (thanks to the magnet riser cover). I had tuck tab riser covers with my Sabre 2. Magnets riser cover seem to make a big difference. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

The so called flat pack method has a great advantage, at the folding of the spread canopy, since you hold the canopy on the ground from the top and apply tension to the lines, the lines are more prone to stay in the middle where they are supposed to be to avoid a line over. OTOH the pro pack is a symetrical method and it is supposed to avoid off headind opening but the lines are generally quite more spread. With the pro pack method I have seen lines so spread that they were going around the edge of the roll and getting dangerously near the nose of the canopy. You can easily feel them if you put your fingers there but most of the time, people concentrate on a nice roll without thinking about what is underneath (the lines). Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

I understand your problem. I was myself stuck there at 5 seconds for a while. Making the delay longer can solve the problem but also can generate more unstability (more speed, more force) especially if you start spinning. It is a hard time to spend but I am sure you will overcome that situation. Make sure when you reach for your main ripcord that you have the proper extension of the left arm to counter balance the right arm grabbing the ripcord. Repeat that on the ground extensively. Remember also to always have a good arch and a mental relaxation. After pull, resume your normal freefall position and look at the horizon. Very often when somebody turns his head in freefall he has the tendency to lower the opposite shoulder which will not help for stability. Tell us when being successful. As an instructor I am really concerned by this issue. Note: Maybe for a while stop taking coffee and/or smoking cigarette (if you are a smoker) before jumping. Have them after jumping instead. Doing so help me a lot when I was a student pilot. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

It is a tricky question. For sure mass and speed are important factors but there are many other factors like the type of parachute, fabric used, the way it was packed, the type of pilot chute...etc. One could design a parachute that even with a lot of suspended weight and speed at the opening could have a soft deployment force. Why? Because all depends on the deceleration. The deceleration depends on the "stopping" distance. If the deceleration is low which means a long vertical distance opening the force can be kept at the total weight + a force from say 5% to 200% of the weight (therefore between 1.05 and 3 G). The people who could really give you a scientific answer are Jean Potvin and Gary Peek who did research on low speed aerodynamics at the university of St Louis MO. Both are very experienced skydivers. John LeBlanc from PD is certainly another fellow able to give you the proper explanation. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

I agree that the Sabre is one of your best buy. Try to get a Sabre 2. I am sure there are a lot for sale now. The Sabre 2 will provide you with a probably the best flare. Have it evaluated by a rigger. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

Just one thing, I believe radial distance means the distance from the landing area to the nearest obstacle in 3 D, not on the ground only. Take a stadium for instance, it can be obstacles free (within the allowed distance) flat on the ground but the protruding canopy or partial roof of the stadium can represent an obstale and make the distance too short than the minimum allowed. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

If you don't jump for 9 months, open and air your reserve (and main). And store it in a cotton bag or a pillow case and put it in a place at about 72 degrees F. and 72% of relative humidity in the dark like a in a closet. Let it breath. Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.