mattjw916

Once I get a decent amount of jumps on my Nitron I'll chime in with my impressions on it too... I load it pretty light due to making a lot of jumps over 5280ft MSL but I've jumped everything from a Sabre 2 210 to a Stiletto 150 so hopefully I will be able to provide a decent comparison for people interested in it as a "first elliptical". Stay tuned. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

...and to throw even more fuel on the fire, this is also misleading or confusing to the uninformed. Since the Pilot is generally regarded as an intermediate level canopy, someone without a lot of backround on the subject could look at the Stiletto and think, "gee, it only has the last 2 cells "tapered" on either side too, it can't be that much more different than a Pilot." I agree with Dave *gasp* that the marketing of the canopies is hugely confusing to those that don't enjoy spending loads of time reading or demoing. Most students are just taught that "elliptical" = evil until they hit some magical jump number. Hell, most of us nowadays made our first jump under a highly loaded elliptical, i.e. a tandem. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

They are mellow canopies (when lightly loaded), the point was that even the most docile canopy can open hard, open off-heading, spin-up, or just snivel forever sometimes. There are no guarantees in this sport and no magic gear combination or canopy choice will completely mitigate the odds of malfunction or death. Reviewing your EPs, maintaining your gear, and staying current will do more to keep you alive than any AAD, RSL, Skyhook, or latest wiz-bang-audio-visual-altimeter-widget although they all have their place. My $0.02. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

That's very aircraft-specific. I'm no general aviation buff but for example, twin Otters are known for their short take off and landing abilities and their ability to take-off and land on unimproved surfaces. Cessna Caravans (the one I've been in) also had an extremely short take off, although that's not really a "big" plane. More like medium sized for the skydiving world. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

Try to borrow ones you are interested in from a friend for a jump or two, or at least try it on when on the ground. Make sure you can see your handles in it, etc, etc. You can always wear a balaclava (ski mask) under an openface helmet, I've done that a few times. I mostly just don't jump when it gets stupid-cold outside. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

You wanna bet your life on it? Leave too little slack between the connector links and the d-bag when packing then dump in a track... One of my friends had a violent spinning malfunction under a Spectre loaded very lightly. The ensuing cutaway (no RSL) left welts on his arms from chopping in a spin with the risers crossed in front of his face. Spectres are supposed to be mellow canopies, right? Also recently witnessed 2 other violent cutaways, one left gouges on the guy's face from riser slap during cutaway and the other knocked a couple teeth out. Both were light to moderately loaded Sabre2s or Spectres (I don't remember which was which). Malfunctions are called malfunctions for a reason, it means the canopy failed to work right, i.e. open reasonably soft and on-heading. When they do so, anything can happen. The hardest opening of my life was under a Navigator 260, loaded around 0.8 or something... sometimes stuff happens. edit: kant spel NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

A couple of points, this has been tried over and over again. No one seems inclined to alter their methods. Secondly, does it really matter??? Take two canopies, both "semi-elliptical" 9 cells, one is a 148 using one method and one is a 150 using another. Which one is "faster" or "higher-performance"? This is a largely subjective impression based on the degree of taper in the wing, the trim of the canopy in full flight, and the physical amount of fabric overhead. Even riser length can significantly affect recovery arc length, etc. Some people, especially on this forum, seem obsessed with hundredths of a point in wingloading as was alluded to earlier in the thread, i.e if you have 100 jumps and fly a canopy loaded at 1.09 you are "safe" and if you load at 1.12 you are "dangerous". I would hazard to guess that most people cannot feel such minute changes in loading hence differences in measuring methods are really not of critical importance. The only way to prove or disprove that would be some ludicrous double-blind experiment. That said, demoing and coaching should lead people to the correct size canopy for them, not high-precision mathematical equations or marketing hype. That's just my opinion (subject to revision at any time) and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night... so flame on... NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

oh god... anything but a Beech 18... Anyone ever tell you why a Beech 18 has 2 engines? Because it can't take off with 1!!! 40 minutes to altitude just ain't gunna cut it nowadays... NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

It's your property, you can do what you wish with it, and sell (not sell) it to anyone you want... If they don't agree to your terms, they are not obligated to purchase. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

A few examples: "Square": Sabre, PD Reserve, Triathalon (IIRC) "Tapered/Semi-Elliptical": Sabre2, Safire 1&2, Lotus, Pilot, Fusion, Spectre, Navigator, Silhouette, etc... "Elliptical/Fully-Elliptical/High-Performance": Samurai, Stiletto, Nitro(n), Katana, Crossfire 1 & 2, Jedei, Cobalt, Blade, etc... "Cross-braced": Extreme FX, VX, JVX, Xaos-21, 27, Velocity, etc... "Defies description": Diablo NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

...and when you are done, can you solve that whole mid-east peace thing, they need a bit of help over there too. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

While I'm not a big fan of std RSLs, I think your reasons for not using one are flawed and should be re-examined, especially at your experience level. "Back in the day" when I had 30-ish jumps I was still renting gear that sometimes did and sometimes didn't have an RSL. I chose to disconnect it always since in the thick of things I may have forgot whether the rig I was wearing did or did not have one. Also, a friend of mine (also an AFF-I) suggested it. A few hundred or so jumps later, I still don't use one for several reasons (very good ones that don't apply to you, are beyond the scope of this thread, and have been discussed to death elsewhere) and don't want to sometimes use one and sometimes not. For students and new jumpers that don't do CRW, fly camera, etc it is probably safer to have one than not. Besides, the best way to survive a low collision is not to have one in the first place. Target fixation kills more skydivers than RSLs I'd wager. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

You know, even with 3 trailing smiley faces, you failed to comprehend I was joking... NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

Come on, you really don't believe a 100% success rate can be achieved simply by a neat packjob and well-maintained gear, do you? The act of deploying a mass of fabric into a 120+mph stream of air has an incalculable number of variables that can affect the opening. Now throw in canopies that are moderately loaded, have high aspect ratios, and a lot of leading edge taper and you just created a recipe for increased odds of a malfunction, namely spinning up. I've seen some great video of a VX deployment where one side inflated a little faster than the other and the canopy proceeded to fly around itself into about 20 twists in 5 seconds. Sometimes sh1t just happens and we often believe it can't happen to us, until it does. I'm chop-free though so I must be doing something right. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

I never miss a chance to "go home"... - Definitely: alanab ballsack bbarnhouse benforde catfishhunter chutem CieloDiosa davedlg Deuce dgskydive Evelyn Gia GQ_jumper grue helldog JudyJ jumper03 LouDiamond mattjw916 mcneill79 monkycndo mustard NWFlyer outlawphx psipike02 Remster (and the soon to be stolen wife) Karen Skratch skreamer (but no spotting!) Skykittykat Skylord tdog The111 TheGreekOne vdschoor Viking wildcard451 Zenister - Likely: AggieDave CanuckinUSA efs4ever Karrigirl Kid Icarus livendive orchid Redassskychic fireflyr(if my spine heals.) - Maybe: ltdiver jasonRose johnny1488 psipike02 rasmack selbbub78 Vanillaskygirl (tiny chance...crossing fingers) NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

bwaaaa ha ha ha ha!!! You definately have never been to Nationals. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

..and then you end up having a canopy collision because you were dicking around with your rsl instead of paying attention under canopy. Don't reinvent the wheel, use it or don't. Perform your EPs properly and maintain your gear properly and you just reduced the chance of most cutaway problems to infinitesimal levels. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

Think about it like this instead... you don't want to pick your main/reserve for "best case" scenarios, you want something that works for bad spots, downwinders, "out" landings, high-elevations DZs, unfamiliar DZs, no wind days with high density altitudes, etc... You may be able to land it 99/100 times without any problems but oftentimes in skydiving it's one strike, and your out... permanently... Go to skydiveradio.com and listen to the Brian Germain interview and see what he thinks about downsizing too fast... I mean he literally wrote the book on HP canopy flight, has over 10k jumps, and designs parachutes. But if you think you know something he doesn't, by all means come back and let us know. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

Solo hop and pops would be a safer idea... no traffic to worry about. I intentionally downwind/x-wind my H&Ps quite often, it's good practice. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

Well if you are diligent and replace them regularly (like you are supposed to) you don't have to worry about Vectran snapping. IIRC as vectran wears you will be able to notice it down near the slider anyway. MEL from Icarus can explain it better than me so I won't try to and butcher it. Plenty of canopies safely use Vectran control lines, most Icarus, Big Air Lotus/Sam, etc... Dacron probably is a little better though even though the lines get all fuzzy. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

You can leave the plane "stable" if you present your chest to the relative wind properly on exit. Like was said before, the relative wind is coming from the front of the plane, not below. You can use that wind to fly in until you accelerate to terminal (it takes about 10-12 seconds). Just because you aren't belly-to-earth, doesn't mean you aren't stable during that time. Cheers. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

I vote for shinking too but it you might want to have them replaced with something more "dimensionally stable" like vectran or dacron for the lower control lines. If they are spectra, the slider whipping down over them every jump will cause them to heat up and shrink resulting in exactly what you described. Either that, or they were just made the wrong length. Of course at 600 jumps, it's probably about due for a reline anyway. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

um... swoop shorts don't work so good in the tunnel NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

I can see it now, I'm going to have to order a tunnel suit... no way I'm going to fly around in there in one of the loaner-one-size-fits-none suits... NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

...are we there yet??? NSCR-2376, SCR-15080