kkeenan

You may be surprised at how "un-Extreeeme" most of the people are who really do push the envelopes in their various disciplines. They tend to be methodical, careful, and very detailed about their work. They may not even drink Mountain Dew. It's been my experience that those who are the "Real Deal" are not usually running around screaming, "Hey y'all, Watch this..." _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

You're not really below them, you're right in between them. The lines (risers) are connected to you, but the canopies are out to each side. Both canopies are pointing nose-down at the ground, so it's possible to be going very fast toward the ground. I don't know if it's 100 mph, but I know you damn sure wouldn't want to arrive at the ground in that configuration. When CRWDogs do downplanes the canopies are attached to two different people who have to hold onto each other. This can be very hard because the lift from both canopies is directly away from the people, so the force to hold the people together can be hundreds of pounds. With one person on a two-out downplane, that force is held by the harness, so you don't feel it. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

Mr. Hackish, I don't think you have paid attention to the folks who have tried to explain this to you. Your original post showed that you had an incorrect concept of what a downplane is. Your idea that one canopy is above the other is not correct. In a downplane, both canopies are about level, they are about 180 degrees apart and are both flying straight down, with the noses pointed toward the ground. You are in the middle, with both canopies pulling very forcefully in opposite directions. As long as the main risers are not tangled with anything, cutting away will make the main risers and canopy shoot quickly away from you and your body simply swings under the reserve. The reserve remains fully inflated with tension on the lines throughout this entire sequence. When a two-out begins, the canopies are either front-and-back or side-by-side. Cutting away the main in either of these configurations is risky because of the closeness of the canopies. If any part of the main, riser, toggle, etc. catches on the reserve as it is departing, it can cause a very bad problem that you may not be able to fix. Steering into a downplane places the lift vectors of the two canopies as far apart from each other as possible, so that when released, the main (and its parts) go directly away from the reserve rather than sliding up past it. Steering "out" of a downplane is possible, but has a good possibility of completely tangling both canopies. I hope this helps, Kevin _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

And you are content to continue to use this piece of gear ? _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

Now that sounds like some fun (except for the jumping with Mark Kruse part.) There shouldn't be any snow then. That doesn't start till the end of August. Kevin3 _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

It would also be a surprise for them to watch the Fire Dept. get you down from hanging upside down in a tree - only not so nice. Take the advise of those who have voted to wait for more experience. All the stuff you don't know would work against you in this jump. When you have 200 jumps and look back, you'll be amazed that you were even thinking about doing this. Kevin _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

Is OJ in jail ? _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

The bottom line is , as with many gear choices, personal preference. However, the OP asked about student / newbie usage. I still contend that, for the reasons stated in several posts, the analog display is better for low-timers. Not to offend any newbies, but the concept that, "Less thinking is better", is usually a good policy when equipping low time jumpers. Kevin _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

Very true. A lot of research was done in Humen Factors Engineering when digital instrumentation first became available in aircraft. It was determined that for instruments where there was a need to quickly spot a reading within a certain "range" or to identify a trend, i.e., "higher or lower", an analog display was far better. If you need to fine-tune something, then digital readout is fine, but for something like an altimeter, you don't really have to know details like whether you're at 1499' or 1498'. What you need to know is where you are in the "low" range. Something that takes an extra brain cell to perceive and an extra millisecond to process is excessive, in my opinion. Obviously, for things like swooping, where precision altitude points are used, a digital is perfect. Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

The chances are about the same as for any other Amusement Park ride. Sure, people sometimes get hurt at the county fair, not not too often. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

? _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

What Mr. Bigun means is that with a vertical speed that high, you're probably not generating much horizontal speed. In a good track, your vertical speed will probably be not much higher than in a normal flat freefall. There are numerous past posts about how to achieve this. If you're interested in actually measuring the horizontal component of your track, check the wingsuit forum. There have been a lot of discussions about the use of GPS in freefall to plot ground track vs. time to calculate horizontal (ground) speed. The key to a good track is: Learn the right technique and practice, practice, practice. Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

Someone logging a tandem (passenger) jump is like a pilot logging time spent in the back of an airliner. It's ridiculous, in my opinion. Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

It's really tough to follow Tom and have anything meaningful to say that he has not covered, since his posts are always very well-written and comprehensive. That said, here's something that caught my attention. You say you looked up at the airplane to establish your tracking direction perpendicular to the jumprun. I think that a more accurate and effective method is to watch the ground track as you wait to exit, look out the door for landmarks that lie 90 degrees from the line of flight, and then head for those. It's possible to err by quite a bit, at least at your experience level, using the "look at the aircraft" method. Also, get used to using the ground as a reference for holding your heading in a track. That's the best way to get where you want to go and to keep from inadvertantly turning into airspace that you want to avoid. I second the commendation on your awareness of seeing the canopy below you. You'd be surprised how many folks would smoke right past an open canopy and never see it. Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

Dang, those guys are good !! They're just like little ballerinas. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

It looks like a lot of folks are coming to the startling realization that a pilot chute in tow can kill you no matter what your EP of choice. When folks are trained, they are told one method or the other, and that is what they adopt as "their" EP. The truth is that once a jumper has 100, 200, or more jumps, they should be able to think their way through the operation of their gear, and if they don't like what they were taught, change it. I have seen people on this thread say something like, "Yeah, that might kill me, but that's how I was trained and I can't change it" (I paraphrase). That's crazy. You're not a trained monkey. If your procedures need updated, then do it. I'm not saying to think about it while in the middle of an emergency. That will definitely kill you. Think and talk about it and develop your procedure, practice it and commit it to your muscle memory, then use it if necessary. Personally, I would not cut away from a PCIT. It wastes time, and, as has been said, a two-out situation is better to deal with than a reserve with a cutaway main in the middle of it. Several years ago, a well-known videographer experienced a PCIT following a tandem video jump. He pulled the cutaway handle, then dumped the reserve. His reserve opened perfectly. Then, moments later, his main came out. As the main pulled away, one of the risers snagged the reserve slider and pulled it slowly up the lines to the reserve canopy, collapsing his reserve to about 4 ft. wide. This increased his descent rate back up to about 90 mph, and all he could do was look up at the snivelling reserve. As luck would have it, he crashed through some big trees, one of which caught the reserve canopy, stopping him in midair. Unfortunately, the branch then broke, dropping him to the ground and sending him to the hospital. But, considering the alternative, he lucked out. There may be just as many stories featuring badness occurring from not cutting away from a PCIT. So, do your research, be a grown-up jumper, and make your choice. (Or talk to your instructor if you're not qualified to choose.) Just make sure you decide before your next jump. Passing 2000' at terminal is not the time to debate the philosophical merits of each procedure. Kevin Keenan _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

Definitely well said, Bob. The video you posted is a good illustration of what can happen. In watching the video, it looks to me that the second cutaway could very well have been a fatality. The jumper cut away with the other canopy still caught on his container, and it comes away with the freebag of the reserve. The reserve gets extracted from the mess and opens just fine. However, if one line had been positioned a little differently, he could have spent the rest of his life waiting for that reserve to open. Cool music, though. Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

This strikes me as a pretty inane comment. At 50 jumps, you're pretty hip to that skydiver lingo. Do you post this about every BASE jump ? Are you still amazed at every skydive that doesn't end in death ? Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

Yeah. That's only safe with one round in the clip. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

I think that only someone who had no confidence or too much spare time would do that. Or someone who just felt that they needed the practice. As far as I'm concerned, if it's packed, I'm jumping it. I'll be damned if I'd repack something that's already in the container. But then I hate to pack... Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

I guess I'm not sure how "big on atmo" you can be with 50 jumps. In any case, no matter which way your body is pointed, the relative wind is what you use to control yourself and stay stable. Don't confuse your angle with respect to the ground with your angle with respect to the airflow. At terminal velocity, they are pretty close, but on exit, they are very different. I'm sure that there are plenty of folks at The Ranch who can give you some pointers. Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

It seems to me that there were quite a few used CYPRES units around until the first wave of units started hitting their "drop dead" age of 12 years. If you think about it, the world-wide supply of CYPRES units was getting larger every day until that point. Then, depending on the production rate, the supply of units out there started shrinking, or at least not growing as much. The newer brands have not been around long enough to have much of a "used" supply available. kevin _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

I guess it's hard to imagine that anything useful could come from anyone else other than the folks you mention, but here are some things that this humble jumper has learned. NOTE: I am not a big-way organizer. 1. Do your prep work well ahead of the jump. Find your position on the diagram, and make sure you know your position with regard to line of flight, etc. Make sure you're ready for the fall rate dictated by your position, the formation design, etc. Dress for Success. 2. In the dirt dive, make sure that you have your radial landmarks identified in the center of the formation. If you know who you are behind in the base (4-way, 8-way, etc.), then you will be able to identify your radial from the very moment the base leaves the plane. Also have landmarks outward from that person toward your position to serve as terminal area guidance. 3. Know where to look for the base when you exit. It may not always be exactly where you expect, but you should have a good idea of where to look. 4. Pick up your base landmark dude as soon as you spot the base. This gives you maximum time to evaluate where you are with respect to the base and your to radial. The building base should be your main focus from here on. Scan briefly for traffic, but don't lose focus from the base. 5. Move to intercept your radial as soon as possible after exit. You should try to intercept the radial as far out from the formation as possible. Get to the point that will give you the longest possible straight-in approach. Most collisions occur because of folks crossing radials close-in. Get on your radial a good ways out, and then watch out for converging traffic. 6. If you're properly lined up on your base person, you should see the formation building like the dirt dive. Pick up your next layers of landmarks as they dock. If your fellow flyers are heads-up, you should see the folks around you moving together toward your docking area. 7. Hopefully, the person that you're docking on should be somewhere in front of you most of this time. Try to follow them as close as you feel is prudent. Remember to maintain the "stadium" effect. You should stay about 2 ft. above the person ahead of you as you both approach. This allows you to see over them. Keep the formation as your main visual focus so that you can fine-tune your fall rate in the terminal area. Look at the base and at your clone on the opposite side of the formation. Once you're in your slot, take a moment to settle your fall rate before taking grips. Don't look anywhere but at the base. People around you will be taking grips as they are ready. Your job is to fly as part of the formation, and that can only be done by keying off the base. Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

Do some CRW. It will get you back to "scared shitless" in a hurry. Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?

You are exactly right. The folks who originated FF did so on rigs just like this. They learned the importance of tight Velcro. So, if you do like they did, and keep your Velcro current and tight, you should fear not. Kevin K. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ?