Kennedy

See, this is why you shoulda left my hijack in the thread... But I think we can agree on the big picture. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

my clan can kick the shit out of your clan.... MacGregors kick ass! Anyway, I'm 49% (Yankee): barely into the Yankee category. Sounds about right, I like being a damned Yankee [according to hicks and rednecks of Alabama [but there are things about the South that kick ass. Too bad they don't know how to make a good pizza or bagel. Hell, they can't even say bagel right down here. It's BAY-glll. Dang, ya'll be some ignant mountain folks. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

um, that's called premeditated homicide with malice aforethought... you may want to be careful with that... . witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Really? Feinstein, with her taxpayer provided security force, secluded mansion, protected workplace, etc, is more likely to face a criminal confrontation? I doubt it. What do you think is "mastery" of gun safety? Or "reasonable" marksmanship? Who gets to decide that for the rest of us? Personally, I'd want people carrying firearms educated a hell of a lot better than 90% of drivers on the road today. That's why I support firearms education in schools. I haven't heard anything about Vermont or Alaskan residents shooting themselves in the foot, have you? In those two states, citizens are allowed, no let me rephrase that, the right of citizens to keep and bear is recognized without a permit. No license, no test, no government intervention in a state and federal right. Driving a car is a priviledge. Keeping and bearing arms is a right. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Well, suppose this should have been back in the original thread, but we're here so let's deal with it. That says it applies to business and reasons why they can or cannot deny services. Doesn't say anything about a state definition of a centuries old institution. FYI - I oppose how the mayor of SF went about this, not necessarily what he is doing. I question a great deal of that, too, but would not condemn it outright. Not in the slightest. The 14th basically means states cannot be more restrictive on people's rights than the federal government can. This is one of a set of laws passed immediately following the civil war, and was one more way of says states are subordinate to federal authority. At this time, people went from saying "the United States are..." to saying "the United States is...." If you want to talk about equal protection, let's talk about how two federal appeals courts have completely contradictory rulings on what the 2nd amendment says (that would be the 9th circus and the 5th circuit). People falling under one circuit have a recognized right to keep and bear arms, while people in the 9th have an unrecognized right, and so face prosecution and often persecution. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

ps - if you're going to jack my posts for minor hijacks, can you send them to the thread I started next time? Just a peasant's request, oh great and mighty greenie, sir. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Umm, dear, they can sue on the grounds that they are not allowed to marry under Prop 22. You don't have to have a show wedding and get it denied before you can sue. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You don't need a fiasco to bring a law suit. Any one of them could have sued without getting fake married. Come on. Besides, the state is refusing to recognize the "marriages" anyway. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

So you're against gambling laws, drinking laws, and prostitution laws, and drug laws, and...am I missing any? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Article 1 Section 1 of the constitution of California states Unfortuantely, CA is one of only a few states whit no clause specifically mentioning a right to keep or bear arms. I don't know the CA constitution as well as say the US or MD, but I couldn't find anything mentioning sexual orientation. What section "says that one cannot discriminate on the basis of race, gender, disability, color, religion, family status, and SEXUAL ORIENTATION?" Besides, if it so clearly contradicts the state constitution, wouldn't it be better to have the state courts throw out the law than to simply disregard it? California law is clear on banning X number of firearms and prohibiting their carry. But the constitution says people have the right to do things that firearms can accomplish. Would you agree to say, the mayor of San Diego issuing concealed carry permits because he thinks that 's what the state constitution says, while state lwaw forbids it? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

now you're giving away all my secrets. hrrumff. see if I give you a pink t-shirt witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

see "attention getter" [it hasn't gotten much attention] witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

since this is your position, I'm curious what you'd have to say about this: clicky [edit] see reulting thread here witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

OK, so my chicago geography isn't the best, but you're telling me you would walk from that huge convention center on the south end up to say, the museum, or soldier, or the planetarium? They may be building million dollar townhouses three blocks away, but it's not exactly a nice part of town. I was concerned at 2:00 in the afternoon. Concerned hell, I was close to soiling my shorts. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Just a quick quesiton Kallend, seeing as you live in and around Chicago: Do you know what city just took the title of Murder Capitol of the US from Washington DC for last year? I bet it's a city where you never "see a gun except at a range, at a gun store, or in the holster of a cop or the hands of a soldier." Things that make you go "hmmmmmmmmm......" witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Now this caught my attention. Read the letter here. OUR OWN INVESTIGATION On behalf of KeepAndBearArms.com, I asked Brian Puckett to contact Peter Walsh -- the officer who conducted the phone interview of David Codrea regarding his article. We published Codrea's letter, and we have a vested interest in this matter. After all, we publish the email addresses of various public servants from time to time, encouraging The People to share their thoughts. We'd like to know if doing so is now considered justification for investigations being launched against our members. Puckett called Walsh and left a message on the afternoon of Feb. 17. He left another message on the morning of Feb. 18. He finally received a callback on Wednesday afternoon from an SFPD employee in the public relations department. Puckett wasn't sure if it was an officer or not. The SFPD "public relations" person indicated that he couldn't answer any questions about the case since it was an "ongoing investigation." "I made certain we were talking about David Codrea," reports Puckett, "to which he responded in the affirmative. I was able to ask two general questions, but he wouldn't answer any questions that remotely touched on this investigation." Among the general questions Puckett asked that the SFPD official was willing to answer: "What is the Special Investigations Division?" of which Peter Walsh is a member. The response was that they "investigate protection [security?] matters, bomb threats, gang related matters, and hate crimes." The only other question SFPD's "public relations" person would answer is this: "If a person were investigated by the Special Investigations Division, how could that person find out what the final results were, or get any documents related to that investigation?" The response was that he would have to "contact the investigating officer". "Peter Walsh, in this case?" asked Puckett. And the SFPD PR guy said yes. According to Mr. Puckett, per SFPD's public relations department, the intent of the SFPD interview of Codrea -- and the subsequent visit by two black and whites at Codrea's home -- was, supposedly, "to determine if Codrea was threatening someone in San Francisco." Again, read the letter if you haven't done so, and decide for yourself if the letter genuinely merited such strong-arm tactics: http://KeepAndBearArms.com/information/Item.asp?ID=3632 QUESTIONS WE WOULD LIKE ANSWERED Following are the questions Brian Puckett wanted to ask, most of which were stonewalled: 1. Exactly what is the special investigations unit? (This question was more or less answered.) 2. Who ordered the investigation? 3. Who asked that the Redondo Beach black and white units be sent to Mr. Codrea's house? 4. Why were two units sent? 5. Why would Redondo Beach take time out for such a questionable mission on the word of a distant police dept.? 6. Did the SFPD actually view this as a credible threat to someone? 7. Is any further investigation of this writer contemplated? (This has been answered as it is claimed to be an "ongoing investigation".) 8. Is this investigation of the kind that SFPD might have a writer's or reporter's -- or specifically Mr. Codrea's -- phone or phones tapped? But civil authorities who send police cars to your house for writing a rhetorical letter don't have to answer questions, apparently -- even when their actions amount to harassment and intimidation. CALLING ALL CARS... On a personal note, since San Francisco police are in the mood to investigate armed political activist-writers around here -- with all the extra time they have while ignoring massive group violations of state laws -- I'd like to invite them to read the following and respond: Message to Police & Other Law Enforcement Personnel from KeepAndBearArms.com http://KeepAndBearArms.com/information/Item.asp?ID=1377 That was published in our "Messages to Police Officers" archive on 9/12/2000 and has not been edited since. So much time has passed I don't recall if I authored it or if it was a joint effort between myself and others. But I certainly take full responsibility for it. And I look forward to reading a thorough and thoughtful response from anyone associated with the San Francisco Police Department -- especially acting police chief Fong, Peter Walsh and San Francisco's new mayor. Finally, on behalf of myself, David Codrea and KeepAndBearArms.com, I want to make one thing very very clear. Codrea's letter to the San Francisco investigation-launchers was not a statement about whether or not California's law banning same-sex marriages is right or wrong. If that had been his intent, we would not have published it; the issue is too divisive to get into considering that it's not our issue. Sexuality issues are not our issues, nor will they ever be our issues. Our issue is the right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their loved ones, their community, the state and our nation. Our Inclusion Policy is very clear. The gun rights community is divided enough as it is without trying to get everyone to agree on not only gun rights but a host of other things. In conclusion, as you read our Inclusion Policy, just know this: David Codrea inspired it, and the text was taken from a very similarly-worded policy of inclusion he created for Guntruths.com. The KeepAndBearArms.com Inclusion Policy has been published at the following page for two or three years now, and it will stay there as long as we exist: http://KeepAndBearArms.com/about/inclusion.asp. Angel Shamaya Founder/Executive Director KeepAndBearArms.com Director@KeepAndBearArms.com (928) 522-8833 witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Awesome video, but with this link, if you "save target as" you can at least watch it without the webpage open. Still streaming video though. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

what he said witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You should start a new list Who's ALREADY HERE [and laughing at the rest of the lists] n2skdvn skyone Who'll be there soon Who we can all laugh at for not being there at all: everyone else witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You haven't spent much time studying or being around criminals, have you? In the USA, most burglars do not go around armed. They seek to avoid all confrontation, hence studying a home before the burglary. If they have any idea someone is there, they wait or move on to the next target. This type of felon follows similar patterns in the UK. "Home Invaders" are a completely different subset of criminals. They don't care if you're home. They just know they are bigger, stronger, and better armed than you are. They carry firearms if they can. They exist in high numbers in the UK, and are nearly unheardof in the USA. They do not fear confrontation, or you. They are the ones who want to "get the first shot off." Both types of felon wants to (A) survive and (B) successfully victimize you. They just go about it in completely different ways. Maybe it's not your logic that's totally absurd. I think it's your complete lack of understand of criminal methods and criminal motivations. PJ is just right on this one, whether you talk to American criminologists or British. -------- I really can't be bothered running a stats package right now, but given the geographical area of the US, population density etc. the results of John Rich's figures may be deemed insignificant. I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong, just that if I looked I'm sure I could find evidence to support my argument, such as changes in the ways that burglaries and violent crimes are reported, which is a political/PR thing as much as anything else. He offers facts and figures supporting his view, and your reply is "I can't be bothered." I must say I am not impressed. I can find statistics that would lead to the conclusion the Al Gore is president of the US right now, but the fact remains that statistics should be examined, not ignored out of hand just because they don't agree with your point of view. The fact is the different laws in the UK versus the USA create a new niche for criminals in the UK that by and large does not exist here. They open homeowners to a greater likelihood of confrontation with a felon, and hence a greater likelihood of injury at the nads of a criminal. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Just as a general rule, you tend to look virulently anti-gun when you argue every little nuance and doubt every fact, without actually stating that you agree somewhere. "Everything pro-gun you say is wrong, but I'm not anti-gun." See it doesn't come off as neighborly discussion. While drugs activity is up, the related crimes [violent crimes] are way down in the US. Our crime rate has been slowly but steadily declining for more than a decade. Britain's violent crime rates, however, took a sharp turn for the worse imidiately following the 96 gun bans. [I'm stating correlation here, not causation] Not quite the same gang activities world wide I guess. Unless you think that American gangs are kinder, gentler hoodlums. -------- I think any of the weapons you suggested would be more than adequate for repelling a typical UK house break-in This suggests you never seriously considered a firearm for home protection. to be continued... witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

oh screw you!!!! sorry, I was trying to hold it in, but it wasn't going to last a week either way. This totally sucks that I have to wait exactly one week from now before I get there. Well, and week and a few hours. You lucky bastards better have one hell of a time for the rest of us poor slobs. ...and be ready to party up when I get there!!! witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Erm, hundreds of thousands of guns, and 65 million population (ish). Sounds to me like the majority didn't want them. The majority of british subjects don't own any works of Shakespeare. Guess they don't want them, and they wouldn't be missed. They're old books and no one really reads them or needs them nowadays. [for those of us paying no attention whatsoever, the above is sarcasm and ironic imitation] How can you possibly justify this statement? "All the time" is a statement which has no place in what was an otherwise well-reasoned argument, however much I disagree with your opinion. How can you justify attacking one semantic portion of his statement while failing to refute or even address the substance of what he has to say, and then presume to dictate to him what does and does not belong in civilized debate? OK, so instead of ignoring him you will put up a strawman to knock down. You still haven't touched his statement. OK, so I'm coming at this post twice, but at first I just questioned the obvious tripe [still curious what you have to say, can't wait for that] but I really have to wonder where you're coming form on this one. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

to quote monkeyone: "no, you're never getting a name!" witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You're right, I do know of it happening. That should read instances of that are nearly nil here. [especially when you compare rates here and in the UK or Oz] [edit]and the Philly gov't makes it so easy for you to exercise your constitutional rights... and since this, and most, crime happens in cities, it makes tons of sense to want to ban firearms owned mostly in rural and suburban environments... witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*