skydived19006

Sweet! And it only seems like yesterday that I saw this thread for the first time! I want to jump it. Actually, would almost rather just ride up and down. He'll, I'll do both! Hopefully the market shows some love. Sure could fill a gap. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

SL and IAD students start down there, low and slow. It's all pretty normal to those students.

A slightly more eloquent way of saying the same thing: For those who skydive, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible. Or maybe: For those who skydive, no explanation is necessary. For those who have yet to skydive, no explanation is possible. I also often say "It's like trying to explain what a banana tastes like to someone who's never eaten one." Also, often once down with a first tandem student, I'll ask those who tagged along "who's next", or "why aren't you on next?" etc. Then in front of the obviously excited and on an adrenaline high tandem student to them "I've heard that it's kind of fun." or "It's kind of fun." Totally straight, with little emotion, like describing how fun bowling can be. I do like my humor dry. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

They're Eclipse rigs, but Vector II drogues. UPT changed their drogue design a few years ago such that they kill down a lot smaller. I talked with UPT about it, they instructed me to install a 6" kill line extension in. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

That's the type of guy who can tend to be a danger to himself and those around him. Sounds like the thought that it may have been a problem with something that he had done was unfathomable to him. He's obviously perfect, can do no wrong, and never subject to constructive criticism, or improvement. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I don't believe that the drogue is going anywhere other than with the wind stream as long as that's where you put it. "Throwing" it isn't going to put it any farther out. That said, I tend to agree with the agressieve placement at full arms reach, essentially the same thing. Less aggressive and it'll get pulled out of your hand, though I'd think that if the forces are enough to pull it out of your hand, that it's in good air anyway. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Back when I was still a fed, I worked with a company called Southwire of Carrollton, GA. They had a policy of not hiring any smoker. They also had a policy of requiring current employees who were smokers to enter a stop-smoking plan. http://www.southwire.com/ourcompany.htm Southwire did not provide medical insurance for their employees. They had an in-house medical plan. They had doctors & nurses in their employe for their employees. They also had contracts with local hospitals for in-patient service. ***Or in the case of employment contracts that expressly state the requirements of employment. It is becoming a 'buyers market' for the employer. IMO you will see more & more of these contracts in the future. Just my $0.02 on this, Jerry Baumchen Obesity drives more medical costs then tobacco/nicotine. The Fatties may be the next target! Are they a "Protected Class"? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I agree. There were a few comments/thoughts that had not previously occurred to me brought up here. Call it "learning" if you will. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

As I understand, anytime there's a suit going forward, they'll add all the names and individuals that they can find to include the instructors. It's free to add names. I"m using Eclipse rigs, so there is no manufacturer. I am an Eclipse and USPA Tandem IE and have always required handle checks in training. Eclipse did require handle checks as well. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

(Of course no DZO would accept this responsibility, and since the USPA is largely made up of DZOs we're back to the original question...) How do you enforce this BSR at an individual level? Who is going to be checking what the tandem instructors are doing, and how? - Is there a position in the USPA who is going to review every youtube video uploaded by passengers as they find them? Are DZs going to be required to submit all their tandem videos at the end of the year for some sort of audit? What's the process? How do you make it so that it's applied equally to all instructors - the ones who take a student without video, for example? Or the ones who don't upload video? I agree with the intention of the BSRs, but think it's an entirely pointless exercise unless along with the regulation updates, you codify how the process has to work, otherwise it's just a wishlist. In the end it's about the money. Whenever someone tells you that it's not about the money, then you can be assured that it's about the money. What we do carries a level of liability, and we're subject to being named in a law suit. If the plaintiff, their lawyers, and hired experts can exhibit video of the defendant/DZ regularly ignoring the industry standard (USPA SIM/BSR), they'll extrapolate to the jury that you're operation is routinely ignoring safety rules, and though handle checks or 180 degree turns may not have been a contributing factor in whatever happened, it can be argued to demonstrate a level of negligence. This can be costly in real dollars. If you don't want to hang your ass out anymore than necessary in order to do business, one might consider enforcing these rules and recommendations on a DZ level. I'm not a huge fan of the handle check BSR, but we'll be doing them on my DZ. The other BSR changes aren't an issue, they were normal procedures with us previously. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I've simplified the whole list of beer rules to only one. #1. Bring more than you drink. If everyone would abide by this simple rule, our only beer related problem would be where to store all the stuff! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Your absolutely right. Living in California, I've only seen AFF as the only option for skydiving and so I get a bit jaded. You need to get out a little bit! If you're traveling, you should intentionally drop in a few 182 DZs. Spend a little time hanging from a strut! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

No. I ask this question with all sincerity; after 20+ years away from the sport, what type (if any) of re-training would be required before making another jump? Check the SIM. Correct me if I'm mistaken. A thorough review of EPs, then a jump under supervision of an Instructor. Beyond that, you have to make it up as you go. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

No. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

It's totally moot since he's not jumping. The SIM now suggests a jump under supervision, and can be full altitude free fall. It could also be a H&P, so supervised from the airplane. I had also thought that were he determined, and I'm sure he has the knowledge, he could find a buddy with a pilot's certificate and airplane. Or rent an airplane, and go exit the thing. None of my business if he goes and hurts or kills himself somewhere else, no paperwork on my end. Though if it were done in Kansas and he did die, the local news media would be contacting me regardless. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I imagine that a very large portion of the skydivers actively work to maintain a certain weight, I know that I do. A few demographics of skydivers may not have to work at it, many are young, work/work out to burn calories, and another group are the skydiving anvels. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I do really doubt that the guy will end up reading this thread, but I believe that we should maintain a level of respect regardless. He's retired military, and likely served in combat during the conflict in SE Asia. He has 500 plus jumps through a huge period of change in the sport. Military and civilian jumps, instruction, demonstration jumps, etc. That said, he called this morning after receiving the checkbook and my note. He talked with Angie (my wife) and thanked her for our thoughtful concern for him and his safety. He gets it. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Exactly Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

There ya go. I should have sent him to SDAZ, they tend to average a couple of fatalities a year. This guy could kill himself there and simply be lost in the numbers. Skydiving deaths tend to be big news as with airplane crashes. Because it's not a common occurrence, it's interesting to people. Shit that happens every day like highway/auto related fatalities isn't news, it's too commonplace. There's an emotional toll left to all who remain as well. My wife has flat out informed me that if we have another serious injury or fatality that she'll be done. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I would hope that he's not 'in the building' as well. I did change the names in order to protect the innocent, but it wouldn't be very difficult to put it together. He's never contacted me through email, only phone, so guessing that he's not super internet savoy. But then, I generally try to live by the rule "Don't say anything about a person that you wouldn't say to that person." Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Reminds me of a story I heard years ago about a titty bar that had to remove their "Shower an Hour" shower because it wasn't handicap accessible. But ya know, there's likely a market for the paraplegic erotic dancer. Otherwise, if we're forced to take all comers regardless of weight, then I have to ask, will the NFL be required to let little girls play pro ball? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Age *may* be a factor. However, there are skydivers over 80 who jump regularly and are in better physical and cognitive shape than a lot of people under 40. Suitability should be determined on its merits, not an arbitrary chronological factor. I totally agree Kellend. Were he in descent physical condition, I'd have absolutely no problem putting him out. He appears to be pretty mentally sharp. He even, seemingly without much trouble at all, convinced someone at Strong Enterprises to sell him that MC-4 rig. Though I don't know, that may not be much of a hurdle to clear. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

my mistake... Best get someone to spellcheck the letter before you send it! My spelling tends to be pretty poor, through a child's difficulty learning to read I discovered that I'm a bit dyslexic. That said, I can see mistakes by others. I plan to let my wife choose which note I send. Odds are that she'll choose your version. She generally thinks that I'm overly blunt/harsh when dealing with things such as this. Go figure. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I'd definitely take out this passage. I think you'd be right to refuse him, but stick to what impacts you. Whether he's classified as obese or not crosses the line in what the message should be. I'd also keep the letter simple and not mention possibility for liability or negligence if he gets hurt jumping. 'Dear John, After considerable thought I unfortunately cannot let you skydive at our location given your age, weight and physical condition due to concerns I have about your safety at this time. In order to jump here we would require: 1) your weight not to exceed 220lbs 2) An signed medical stating your fitness to parachute 3) and a modern digital AAD. Please understand that these requirements are for your safety. I wish you the very best, and if you do decide to meet these targets look forward to beginning your training. Kind Regards' etc I'd try to keep it impersonal and professional - if the guy wants to talk around the points in the letter via phone or in person that's when you can bring up the stories about the efficacy of AADs and the unachievable goals... Excellent points. I appreciate the input. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

For consideration, comment, etc. I was contacted by and have talked with at the DZ a couple of times an old skydiver. The guy has some 500 or 1000 jumps as I recall starting in the 1970s with his last jump 20 some years back. He had military jumps, and I'm jealous of the aircraft types noted in his log books. Many demonstration jumps, etc. All around very experienced guy. Currently he's 78 years old, and in the neighborhood of 270 lbs. He had decided that he was going to start jumping again, so obviously (in his mind) the first step would be to buy gear. He called Strong Enterprises and ordered up a MC-4 system complete with 470 sf main and reserve parachutes, ripcord and spring loaded PC. So far, he'd been flatly refused at one Kansas DZ. He indicated that another Kansas DZ had informed him that a modern AAD would be required to jump, but no doubt he wouldn't be allowed to jump with one, that was just the end of the conversation at that point is my guess. I talked with him and advised that I would consider letting him jump with us were he able to get down to 230 lbs. He indicates that he has some sort of issue that would make achieving that weight next to impossible and that it will not happen. I've since given it more thought, and wrote the following letter which I plan to mail to him later today (I don't have an email address, and need to mail him the check book that he left behind anyway). John (not the real name), Since we talked Saturday, I’ve given your desire to jump again and your current state of physicality a bit more thought. I’m not sure of your height, but guessing somewhere in the 5’8” range, and I think that at one time you had mentioned a weight of 270. For a man of 5’8” the ideal weight range is 145 to 165 lbs. 170 to 190 is considered to be overweight, and anything over 200 lbs being obese. At 270, you’re in excess of 100 lbs overweight, and obviously well into any definition of obesity. I wouldn't let someone 100 lbs overweight at 30 years of age jump, and with you age you’re more apt to injury than someone younger. It’s not about whether the canopy is rated for the load, but basic physical fitness and susceptibility to injury. We've had serious injuries and death on our DZ, I think that I would be pushing negligence and would undoubtedly be accused of such were I to allow someone of your physical state to jump, let alone your advanced age and weight. I would without doubt be accused of such by media in the event of a serious injury, or fatality. I had indicated that I would let you jump if you were able to get down to 230 lbs (50 lbs overweight). All things considered 230 lbs is marginable, but at this point I’ll hold to that number. Though, you've indicated that you’re not ever going to achieve that number, so it’s likely a moot point. I would also require a modern (digital) automatic activation device be installed on any gear that you would jump. Just within my small world and time in sport, I know two people who are above ground and upright who would not be were it not for an AAD save, and two more people who had AAD saves and would very likely would have perished otherwise. Martin Myrtle Air Capital Drop Zone Edit: I'm not up on military gear, but looked around a bit. They're more likely 370 SF canopies as opposed to 470. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ