JoeWeber

I guess I'm just a hopeless romantic, or a complete dipshit. The latter probably.

9-0 that Trump has no case, Ron. So now what? Will you ever accept reality?

Then let's get creative. How about Zero Federal Tax on all public college educators salaries. (yes, skydekker there are in's and outs there) Then add on a tax credit for all state and local income tax obligations. If needed add on a housing allowance. That sort of thing. I'm good with more of my taxes going to our public institutions to help compete with the big endowments.

Not student debt help. I'm all for help if it means renegotiation but a continuation of the obligation. Outright forgiveness is what I'm opposed to.

So that's why you are here? Just to argue yourself silly and get to say moving the goal posts again? Stating that I believe in the sanctity of contract law in no way implies that I believe there should be no amendments to contracts. That's just another of your made up statements to redirect the conversation. You think you're clever at it but you are not. And no, I did not pivot to stating I "don't believe in severe changes/amendments." Again, more fabrication on your part. See, the difference here is that I didn't make my career in the government or in a corporate job where the money I moved from column A to column B wasn't mine. In the real world, when it's your money, you understand that if you default you suffer. In the real world when you don't pay your collateral goes away and your credit rating drops. Reality. Furthermore, I've lived on the lenders side as well doing hard money loans. So yes, I believe in the sanctity of contract law as respects student loans and other personal loans and, obviously, secured loans. I am also versed in more complex agreements that have renegotiation features. So you just go on thinking what you like.

Dude, you would argue with a wall.

By "one" I meant a "someone" not Phelps Dodge or the mortgage work out department at Wells Fargo. In the real world when ones default they either turn over the collateral or suffer some contract change. In some odd situations a lender might suffer a cram down. But everyone just walking away for the greater good just does not happen. Sorry for the confusion.

The topic was a student loan to an individual and the forgiving of such loans. Those are generally unsecured personal loans. Hence, they are difficult to discharge. You all chose to chime in with information on government contracts and other corporate type contract situations that might cause a review. That's moving the goal posts and changing the discussion.

And how many billions of other peoples money do you forgive on an annual basis? Zero Billions? Thought so. Renegotiation, including bankruptcy, and forgiveness are different things.

It's a curiosity how that idea, which once I found abhorrent, now rings with a certain joie de vivre.

I gave an example of one, Ken. It's the point of it all that matters. If you want to pay my share of the cancelled debt just say so, please. Otherwise, changing the system moving forward is the best way in my view.

Oh, come on you guy's. The loan's have closed and if the borrower is getting something "as is" they should have studied harder. Last year in the Islands I met a lady that was carrying $320K USD student debt (her number) after fiddling around through a Caribbean Veterinary school until she got her Doctors. Then she met a dude and decided that sailing around on his boat for several years was a better idea than going to work and paying off the loans. She was seriously hoping she could just find a way to discharge it all. Screw that noise.

In happy land it might. Aircraft Maintenance is one of those things where you accept the end price is unknown and the only prices-usually known-upfront are the flat rate charges. They aren't money loans. Huge difference.

Government and institutional contracts often anticipate often changes. You wouldn't expect the same, nor would it be written into, your home mortgage, automobile, land sale, home equity, personal loan or, in my example, an aircraft contract.

No it's not. No one signs a contract in the real world counting on an amendment if things change. Although I suppose being on the receiving end of a cancelled contract might be framed as a mutual agreement. Bankruptcy is an outlier event, or should be, not an expectation of the parties. That's why you need to be careful about who you contract with and why if the risk is high the terms are harsh.

"Happily"? It's vastly more complex as you know. But at it's most basic level it's because I believe in the sanctity of contract law in a capitalist economy. A bargain struck should remain so. If I contract to buy an airplane, and the depreciation regime subsequently changes, the contract between the parties must remain unchanged no matter if the tax consequences of the respective contracting parties change. That's why. It's not about right or wrong or what I or you would do it's about not taking one more step towards becoming a Banana Republic.

It's your good fortune, I guess, that there is a skydiving forum that gives you a platform to bang on the US. Your post was just an attack as per usual. I simply dismissed it. Have you ever considered starting your own thread here so we can hammer on you? It's scary but I'm sure you are brave enough.

True. Also true is that there are many Stock Exchanges including one in Toronto. No question was dodged. Skydekker asked "why" and then railed.

Maybe try it with less of a high handed hectoring tone and you'll get a more thoughtful response. "You elected him President" Really? He was elected but I didn't vote for him. My opinion on school loan forgiveness is my own, not the nations. Just back it down a bit.

Not your business. Not your tax bill. Not your country. That's why.

Agreed. Outright forgiveness of student loans is simply unfair. Let's change the system, sure. But those who borrowed it should pay it back.

Donald Trump masks?

Correct. But I didn't make it you did.

Yes. I'm against all guns that were ever used for any purpose even in cartoons.

Next up, Monoclonal Anti-body treatment no one else can get.