RonD1120

Has The Church Become Irrelevant? by Chuck Baldwin August 25, 2009 America's Christian heritage is both rich and deep. What most historians and educators refuse to acknowledge, our forebears understood clearly: it was mostly Christians and churches that formed and shaped the new land that became known as the United States of America. For example, when discussing the brave exploits of the passengers on board the Mayflower, people seem to have forgotten that the voyage was mostly the endeavor of a single church congregation. And don't forget that it was Pastor Jonas Clark's male congregants who withstood British troops at Lexington and fired the very first of the shots heard 'round the world. The famous French historian, Alexis De Tocqueville, credited the pulpits and churches of Colonial America with inspiring America's successful War for Independence and subsequent prosperity much more than its institutions of learning, halls of Congress, or industries of invention. From the very beginning, America's Christians and pastors were intricately involved in the establishment and building of this republic. It is no hyperbole to say that without the influence, sacrifice, dedication, blood, sweat, and tears of America's early Christians, this country would not exist. But what do we see today? We see pastors and church congregations who are, for the most part, totally ignorant of their own heritage and history. They have little or no understanding of the principles of Natural Law--something America's founders knew almost by second nature (no pun intended). They seem to know next to nothing of the Biblical principles of liberty and government. All they seem to be able to do is regurgitate some mindless interpretation of Romans 13--an interpretation that could have been written by King George III or even Adolf Hitler. (Read my column regarding Romans 13 at http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20090715.html ) Ignoring the great examples and exhortations of both Testaments, today's Christians seem to have lazily latched onto a modern-day "divine right of kings" philosophy, through which they have become the pathetic slaves of arrogant and pompous political wolves dressed (barely) in the sheepskins of legitimacy. Where are America's watchmen on the wall? Where are the great stories of courage and commitment demonstrated by America's founders that once emanated from church pulpits? How is it that today's Christians know more about sports celebrities than they do America's heroes? How is it that these lying, conniving, con artists called politicians can sucker church members as easily as they do the un-churched? How is it that Christians do not seem to recognize the devilish doctrines of socialism, fascism, elitism, or globalism for what they are? How can they be so easily manipulated? How is it that these corrupt politicians--who vote to kill unborn babies, merge America into internationalist and global entities, strip Americans of their God-given natural right of self defense, promote homosexual marriage, or allow America to lose its identity, culture, and heritage through unbridled illegal immigration--remain in "good standing" with any number of supposed "Christian" churches? Even though there are more churches in America than anywhere else in the world, the pastors and Christians of this country have, for the most part, become completely irrelevant to preserving "the blessings of liberty"--or even fundamental Biblical principles, for that matter. Churches used to be respected as lighthouses in communities: places free from the jaundiced juxtaposition of political correctness and avarice. Today's churches are filled with both. Where once churches stood as guardians of truth, they have now become progenitors of error. Where once preachers stood in the similitude of Elijah and John the Baptist, they now grovel in the image of Joel Osteen and Rick Warren. Sunday Schools were once bastions of Bible teaching; today they are glorified coffee shops and playgrounds. The modern Christian home cannot even disciple its own children: how can it then be expected to "make disciples of all nations"? I repeat: the modern American church has, for the most part, become irrelevant. It is little wonder that more and more people are losing interest in the organized church. Instead of finding Christian love and kindness, they find the same kind of gossip, slander, petty bickering, favoritism, and selfishness that they might find at any office water cooler. Instead of hearing a prophet of God declare the Word of God, they hear a milquetoast minister meekly musing the latest self-help book. The complete irrelevance of today's organized church in America to the preservation of Christian liberty and constitutional government is especially disconcerting to those of us who still have freedom's fire burning in our souls. Where do we go for respite and instruction? I tell you the truth: there are hundreds of thousands of patriotic, freedom-minded Christians all over America who have had it "up to here" with these spineless social clubs called churches! They are tired of petrified pastors groveling before corrupt politicians and businessmen. They hunger for truth, and they are not finding it in most organized churches. As an example, go to my list of people who have written me to let me know that they are desperately seeking a Black Regiment-type church that they can attend. The list grows by the day. See the list at http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/blackregiment.php#Looking These people are not looking to be entertained or pampered. They do not care about social standing or making "business contacts." They don't care which church has the "most exciting" youth program, or how many softball teams it has. They want a church where the pastor isn't afraid to speak truth to power and take a stand for liberty. And, unfortunately, such churches are getting harder and harder to find. In fact, I submit that the true church is not "emerging"; it is "submerging." As in totalitarian regimes all over the world, where there are basically two types of churches: the organized State-approved church, where people who worship the State go to put on a religious show; and the underground church, where real Christians go to worship God with honest, likeminded believers. The "underground" church in America is not totally underground--yet. But the schism is taking place rapidly. Unlike the houses of State Worship, which enjoy large congregations and ornate buildings, underground churches are, for the most part, small and unassuming. Home churches are also mushrooming and must be considered part of the underground church movement. And, of course, Black Regiment churches are springing up all across the country. See the list of Black Regiment churches at http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/blackregiment.php I am convinced that it is through these independent, unaffiliated, unorganized, or underground churches that relevancy will return. It is in these churches where Christians can be taught the Biblical principles of Natural Law, where children who are disciplined and know how to behave are not considered oddities, where pastors aren't afraid to proclaim truth, where people are still committed to constitutional government--and understand the difference between a democracy and a republic--and where self-serving neocons are not regarded as heroes. So, if you are a Christian and you want to be relevant to the preservation of liberty in this country, you need to get out of these establishment, State-worshipping churches and find yourself an "underground," unaffiliated, or Black Regiment church. And you need to do it quickly! *If you appreciate this column and want to help me distribute these editorial opinions to an ever-growing audience, donations may now be made by credit card, check, or Money Order. Use this link: http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/donate.php © Chuck Baldwin This column is archived as http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20090825.html Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

My sentiments as well. As with Cronkite, maybe someone can make better use of his oxygen now. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

And here is yet another BHO birth certificate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkWd2INPhL4 Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I like that, ya sick twisted freak. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Thank you. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

D1120? What origin might that be? United States Parachute Association nee Parachute Club of America, 1965. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I think you make an excellent point. When I think of Obamacare, I think of HMO's and Social Security/Medicare treatment for the mentally ill and chemically dependent. I worked in that system from 1993-98. It was horribly abused on both sides, that is, by the professionals and the patients. I saw no evidence of what I would call good treatment. It was mostly band-aids that kept being reapplied until the benefits were used up. The system was overhauled by 1998 but grant funding is not much better. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

The USA Republic is supposed to be a representative government. The "intellectual elite" is a adjective term to describe those politicians and media personnel that believe they are more intellectually equipped and capable to know what is best for the majority, regardless of what the majority expresses. My view of socialism is a system where individual incentive to achieve more than your parents and your neighbors has been taken away by the government. Those who put forth less effort are entitled to the same share as those who put forth more effort. Consequently, no reason for the individual to put forth more. What do I base my belief on? Growing up in America and being taught by the "Greatest Generation." BTW, my family heritage is Scotch, Irish and English. My last name came from my grandmother's second marriage not the blood line. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Right now I see socialism more than communism, with the government takeover of business and banking and, his redistribution of wealth philosophy. BHO is not interested in the U.S. being a leader in the world. He wants us to be as miserable as the others. Try not to polarize that statement but think of it on a continuum sliding down and to the left. Conservative to me, is less government more free capitalism. This ideal used to be a definition of the Republican Party. I don't see it anymore. Politics as usual, in both parties, establishes an intellectual elite that is not representative of a republic. We are supposed to be a republic. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I love that. Like, when someone accuses me of lacking common sense, my first thought, what's your point? I'm a skydiver. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I think it would be difficult to organize atheists on a world wide basis. Madalyn Murray O'Haire probably came as close as anyone here in the U.S. with her campaign against school prayer. We also have the sporadic outbursts over the "under God" phrase in the Pledge of Allegiance. Those were specific points and not strong enough to pull a massive movement together. During my college years in the 60's we had the "God is Dead" movement but it did not go much farther than the philosophy department. It has been my experience that people aren't so much against the notion that God exists as they are against being held accountable to Him. It is very difficult for a person to face a problem, make a decision, act on the decision and, admit it was the wrong decision. As a substance abuse treatment counselor, one of my group lessons concerned teaching folks how to make a simple linear decision tree i.e., problem ->thought->decision->action->evaluation=yes it worked; no it did not work. People tend to hold on to the immature position of not being able to defer immediate gratification. I want what I want, when I want it and, I want it now. Formal education does not eliminate the desire, or the behavior completely. The best moderator of behavior is individual conscience. Conscience is only as good as the individual's initial training. The far end of this continuum is the sociopath. So, IMO, the root element of the organization is not that there is no God but rather God really doesn't care what I do because He is God. So start there and it will naturally evolve into there is no God. In this movement everyone is free and capable of doing whatever they feel like doing, whenever they feel like doing it. Your law is the opinion of your neighbors. I think this would be an existential utopia. The movement would have to start with a base group living in a communal environment. We have such group in the U.S. called "the Rainbow People," not to be confused with the Rainbow Coalition. This nomadic group has existed about 40 years as far as I know. Not being a member, I don't know there collective thoughts about God. However, their anti-middle class values, I think, would allow them to be open to such an idea. A primary rock in their foundation is their belief that they are not, should not and, cannot be held accountable. So, without God, each is allowed to satisfy all hedonistic desires. There is no divine moral code only a socially defined moral code. This is the formula we used in Taos, NM during the 70's. I participated in the experiment from 1976-81. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Is this bait? In my area of operation, when I was working, all the poor people had insurance through Medicaid. Rich people, of course, buy what they need, want and desire. Isn't it the middle class that is having the rougher time of it? Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

No!!! It is only wrong when the action is initiated or perpetrated by Republicans, especially conservative, right-wing, evangelical Republicans. Or, one a lesser scale, when an attorney envisions an opportunity to profit from said action. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Is that an example of baiting? If he responds, regardless of the response, you are then afforded the opportunity to display your court room prowess. Are you picking up clues from my style? Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Thanks for your response.... But are you really serious with the comment above??? Yes and, I'm worried. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I agree my center would be to the right of others. I don't like the wussification movement that the nanny state mentality has produced. Furthermore, as socialism, supporting the system, expands I fear violence will be forthcoming. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Why does race have to enter into it at all? That's playing into the hands of the left. There are those of us who believe that government has no duty but to protect the rights of the individual, and there are those who want/need government involved in every aspect of their lives, or are at least OK with it because they believe it is more "compassionate." I suppose there is some room in the centre but not much. Skyrad is right in that the next civil war here will be fought for the same reason as the Revolutionary War. And Mike you're right. The silence is deafening. And it's MUCH more dangerous for these guys than some chick walking in and out of the front gate of the CIA every day. I don't know another label for the extreme far right. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Liberal = Member or supporter of the Liberal party which is a centre party. Left = Well supposedly we have a Labour party that is left but in fact its centre left. on the far left is the socialist party and then the communists. On the far right is the BNP. From the outside your Liberals don't seem particuarly far left, maybe because your Republican party seem so far right wing. So how would you describe the terms that you have used? I believe our Democrats and Republicans are left of center. The Democrats are further left. I consider myself a right of center conservative Independent but not a white supremacist. I hope that makes sense. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I was raised with the concept that charity was distributed from the churches and supported by tithes and offerings. In the 60's President Lyndon Johnson introduced the "Great Society" and charity became social services. I believe that is when dependence grew to its present dysfunctional level. It is said that we have created a population segment that has learned survival through welfare supported unwed mothers. The male children have no father and therefore see no need of taking on that responsibility for themselves. The female children learn that benefits come from having babies. Income is associated with the mailbox not work. On the other side we have social service entrepreneurs. These people start non-profit organizations which compete for government grant funding and private contributions. If they become established and moderately successful upper management can make a good living. Average non-profit CEO salary is $75 - 100K/year. The larger corporations, United Fund, et.al., have CEO salaries in the $500K range and up. In order for this system to function there must be a base population to serve. This base population elects the politicians that will generate funding through tax dollar allocations. This same population must exist for the non-profit organizations to survive. It is a symbiotic relationship. Bottom line answer to your question, IMO, yes, charity=social service creates more dependence on the system and enhances dysfunctional life styles. The next big thing, I believe, is social service=charity programs for illegal Latinos. California is leading the way. And, we all see how successful they are. What is the answer? I don't know but it seems that American generosity has become a snake eating its tail. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I believe it would be better expressed as hatred between American Liberals and American Conservatives. Most of the Conservatives that I have spoken with have resigned from the Republican Party, me included, and are registered Independent. Independents are yearning for government. They are fed up with politics. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Got it, done. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I will now. Would you like for me to use Virgin-Burner, or do you have another name? Did you notice at the beginning of the video the guy in the white T-shirt genuflected, that is made the sign of the cross. It looked like he said a prayer for you. Neat video. I never got a balloon jump, always wanted to. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Nah, this will not guarantee your place in hell. if not, what WILL!? You were born with your reservation already made. You have to repent and chose not to go. Man is sinful and is born into sin. God provided the escape through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. He paid the price for your, and everyone's, sin. It is a free gift but, you have to repent and accept the gift. It is a free will choice. You made a choice against all common sense to become a skydiver and I assume a base jumper. You did not know what it would be like, how you would feel or, even if you would survive. You evaluated your fantasy based on information from those who had gone before you and jumped. You became a member of a minority. Repenting and accepting Jesus is similar. Others have gone before you and said it is a good thing to accept God's gift of salvation. You are curious. You are unable to ignore the posts in this forum. You are rebellious. You keep coming back. The Holy Spirit is talking to you but, you can't recognize His voice. I know because I was the worst offender of all. Once recognized and selected by the Holy Spirit these conflict situations will always appear. Some refer to it as "having the hounds of heaven on your trail." My guess is, someone who loves you very much is praying for you daily. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I agree. Which spirit? Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Nah, this will not guarantee your place in hell. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.