Dogwap

Way back in the early 90s, 20 or so Perris locals did a demo over the Chrystal Cathedral in Orange County. The jump went off without a hitch. We made a nice freefall cross. Everyone landed on the grounds at the church. We even got to shake hands with Dr. Schuler, the head of the church and big time televangelist. The photographer took a real cool shot from above the formation with the cathedral’s spire in the center of the cross. Anyone know where I can find a copy of the shot? It was on the wall at Perris manifest for a while. I pastor friend of mine was excited when I recalled the jump and wants to see the photo. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

Does this really increase the distance you can travel? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me. I've sometimes put on a little rear riser to flatten my glide. But even that approach doesn't have me convinced. How bout it? ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

Fear Most? F@#king up... first. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

I wonder about the improved safety. I know that statistics on injuries/deaths per thousand jumps are hard to come by. But are there any reliable studies out there that show a trend in safety over the last 20 or 30 years? Although gear is generally safer than it was 30 years ago, and there are lots more rules, skydivers by their very nature will always push the envelope to it’s tearing point. For example, in the early eighties, pulling at 1,500 was all in a day’s fun and an occasional grand opening was not a grounding offence. Today, you’d be ostracized by your pals and probably get kicked off the airport for such behavior. On the other hand, hook turn landings aren’t given a second glance. And how about those birdman suits? Still look like Black Death to me. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

I am in no sense of the word an instructor, and normally don’t give skydiving advice. But I’ve seen this question a lot lately and have read a lot of advice that is very counter to how I’ve been landing successfully for a long time. First, I like Frog’s advice to keep swiveling your head. Look around. Do not tunnel vision. Tunnel vision is probably the biggest reason people screw up landings. Here’s my advice: Fly your parachute until you land! Forget this flare and wait idea. I think of landing as a two-part maneuver. Part 1- Plane out. By applying a small amount of breaks, your canopy will fly horizontal for a short while. Practice this at altitude until you find the “sweet spot” on your toggles that allows you to stop your descent without significantly reducing your forward speed. See how long you can milk the plane with your breaks before you start to sink. Notice what happens if you add some more breaks or let off the toggles a little. Planing out requires a gentle touch. On my old Saber 135 I slowing apply breaks until the sweet spot (quarter breaks?) is reached. It takes me about a second to reach quarter breaks, so in no-winds I start this maneuver pretty high; 25 feet or more off the deck. Each canopy is deferent so adjust accordingly. Now here’s the important part. After you start to plane out, continue to fly your canopy! If you notice that you’re traveling flat, but still ten feet off the deck, get off the breaks a little. If you’re still going down too fast, apply a little more breaks. These adjustments are VERY SMALL. The point is that you need to keep flying. During the next couple of seconds, your forward speed will start to slow, so to keep your plane going, slowing apply a little more breaks. Part 2- Reduce Forward Speed. At this point, your downward speed should be minimal, but you’re still going too fast forward to run it out. The idea now is to stay off the ground as long as you can while your forward speed slowly bleeds off. Do this by playing the breaks. Finally as your feet are just above the ground and your lift is about to give out, put in another foot of breaks. This will stop your forward speed, at the cost of your remaining lift. Now simply step onto the grass and smile. In general, think about landing your parachute like it’s an airplane. Lift is your friend. Don’t waste it on a big ugly hard flair. Picture a Cessna landing on a runway, not an F-14 slamming into the deck of an aircraft carrier. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

It’s all about priorities. Here are some tips. Cut back on food, clothes, gas, heat in the winter, A/C in the summer, beer, and nights out, etc. Get another roommate or move to a cheaper place. Get another job, but not on the weekends. Plastic (as in credit cards) Apply for every possible scholarship/loan/grant Beg mom for more money (threaten to quit school if she won’t pony up) Keep one step ahead of the bill collectors Never, ever take classes that will require you to study on the weekend The above tips are all pretty obvious. But the following tip can net you thousands of dollars. Start a School Skydiving Club so that you can hold fundraisers. A pal and I hired a band and held a big dance in the student union the week before Easter break in order to fund our first skydiving vacation. Once you have a non-profit, school-affiliated profit center, the potential for financing your skydiving habit are limitless. A final tip… Do not save money now to skydive sometime in the future. Jump this weekend and every weekend, even if you can only afford one jump a week. This is especially true if you get a job at the airport. Don’t hang around if you aren’t gonna jump. These tips are time tested and well used standards. Look, you’re a college student. You have a license to act irresponsibly. So, if you can’t find a way to jump now, you never will. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

Current temp at Perris... 95F Forcast... No change ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

Agreed. But I don't think it's a simple thing to switch forum formats. However, if DZ is considering changing, the following link takes you to an excellent forum that allows splinter topics. SailingAnarchy A cheaper option would be some occasional moderator intervention to keep people on-topic. Or better yet, a little mouth control from the posting public. Private Messaging is the place for conversing with pals on issues that don’t concern the thread’s topic. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

How about stowing your slider in a Velcro loop on your jumpsuit? I've been away for about 6 years and just started jumping again recently. In the past, a common way to avoid slider flap was to have a Velcro loop sewn onto your jump suit (just behind the collar). After opening and before releasing the breaks, you pull the slider down to the three rings and stow it behind your head. Is this technique considered dangerous now days? I didn't notice anyone doing it. It seems to work so much better than simply binding the slider together with a small piece of Velcro. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

Lie about number of jumps? Always have, and probably always will. Back in the day... Exaggerated to get on the good loads. Did the first 42 way over Perris with only 215 jumps (and a big ass jumpsuit). Now days, I go the other way so as not to embarrass myself. Last weekend a friend and I were looking to do a four way, but got talked into a 16-way blot. He joked, “You can handle that, can’t you?” A pretty girl overheard, and conceded that we’d blow her load chimed in, “You have a D License, don’t you?” “Yes” I told her, “But I got it back when you only needed 200 jumps to qualify.” High school junior at her first rave, to the tattoo-covered Vin Diesel look alike… 19! Divorced soccer mom to the cardigan-wearing gent stepping out of his new Jag… 38! It all works out in the end. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

Thanks for the info guys. From your descriptions, it sounds like the name Mantis pretty well describes the position of the upper body, head and arms. Sorta like eatin’ corn-on-the-cob while layin’ on your belly out in the lawn. But I'm still a little unclear on the lower legs. Is the idea to extend your legs as close to horizontal as possible without jetting forward unintentionally? Chow ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

Please post a link to a photo of someone flying in the Mantis position. Or please try to describe the prescribed hand, arm and leg positions. I’m imagining the following configuration. Thumbs down. Elbows forward, at about the nose/ears, as opposed to the shoulders with the box-man. Shoulders slightly cupped (dependent on desired fall-rate). Legs spread as normal. Knees slightly lowered to create an overall de-arch (again depended on fall-rate) Lower legs extended at maybe 45 degrees (fall-rate). The above is just a guess. Please tell me where I’m out of line. Thanks, ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

You make an interesting Point regarding the wind tunnel evolving into a whole new sport. There have no doubt already been tunnel competitions in Orlando. I wonder if in the future they’ll draw more competitors than skydiving meets, and if skydivers will still dominate. Someone commented earlier on a proposed rule change that would have made exits irrelevant by starting the clock a few seconds after teams leave the door. Seems to me that this change would be a step in the wrong direction. Maybe we should start thinking about ways to change the Formation Skydiving Rules to reward freefall training as opposed to tunnel training. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

I think we all agree that it will be fun to have a wind tunnel on the DZ, and that without exit practice you can’t expect to ever get very good. Furthermore, I’d be interested to read a detailed post regarding how best to allocate your time and money between the tunnel and the otter. But in this thread, I’m more interested in the tunnel’s impact on the sport as a whole. For most people, resources are limited. In the past, skydivers spent all their cash on jump tickets. But next year there may be a tunnel in your neighborhood. So if you spend money for tunnel time, there will be less money for jumps. Basic budgeting. How many fewer jumps you make is not important. The point is that all but the richest teams will make fewer jumps if they have a tunnel in their backyard. And my question is, what are the costs to the sport of introducing artificial skydiving as a major training aid? Here’s an analogy for ya. A lake in Northern California has a problem. The mud suckers are eating all the trout eggs. The local fishermen are pissed. So they introduce a few dozen pike to the pond. Initially, everything looks good. The pike eat the mud suckers and the trout begin to make a comeback. But before long, when the mud suckers are all gone the pike start to eat the trout. A year later the trout are history. So what’s the moral? Pikes rock and trout suck ass? Maybe. Or is it, don’t fuck with Mother Nature. Who knows? Think about it. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

My point isn’t that tunnels will replace airplanes. Exits and the general energy rush of freefall can’t be replicated in the tunnel. But teams with access will have a huge advantage as a result of the cost and time savings. I’m thinking more about the team that used to spend every weekend at the DZ to make 300 jumps a year. Next year they may only make 75 or 100 jumps and spend the rest of their money at the tunnel. That’s a lot less airport time and can’t be good for the DZ. On the other hand, training in the tunnel may help weekend teams compete with the fulltime guys, assuming they have more money than time. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

I’m interested in your opinions regarding the long-term effects of wind tunnels on formation skydiving competition and training. I’m specifically interested in the following questions: Will teams make fewer jumps, in favor of wind tunnel time? If so, is this a good or bad thing for the sport? Here’s my take… The Orlando tunnel costs about $600 an hour to rent. Split this by four jumpers and you get 60 jumps worth of freefall time for $150. That comes out to about $2.50 per sim-jump. I have no idea whether one hour of tunnel time is more or less valuable than 60 team jumps. But anyway you look at it, $2.50 for 60 seconds of training is pretty cheap. As a result, I think that most teams will allocate a significant portion of their training budget to the tunnel. Consequently, teams will get better by making fewer jumps. Is this a good thing? For teams with access to a tunnel, there’s no doubt about it. But is tunnel training good for the sport as a whole? If because of the tunnel, teams make fewer jumps per year, I’m not so sure it is. And should you abandon all hope of a gold medal if your DZ only has airplanes? That would suck. Another interesting aspect of tunnel training is that it is vastly more time efficient than skydiving. Again, the math tells the story: a fulltime team with an aggressive training schedule makes 50 jumps per week. This yields about 3,000 seconds of training time. A second team with fulltime jobs does an hour of tunnel work, five nights a week and then makes six jumps each Saturday. This yields 18,360 seconds of training time per week. The price is about the same either way. Which team progresses faster? I’d say the tunnel team would. Talk about accelerated freefall. It’s easy to imagine national champions with only a few years in the sport. But what about all those guys who’ve dedicated their lives to competition skydiving? Trounced by Team SkyVentures? Just doesn’t seem right to me. But hey, it’s all about progress. Someone has to pave the road to the future. Might as well be the dinosaurs. Right? Ok, so the sympathy angle won’t fly. But consider what happened to a similar sport, freestyle ski jumping. Back when freestyle skiing was in it’s heyday, the best jumpers were also the best skiers. This was because you practiced jumping while you were skiing. But today, many of the best freestyle ski jumpers are gymnasts with very little time on the slopes. Some of them barely know how to ski. As a result, the sport has experienced a huge decline in participation among skiers. I would hate to see formation skydiving fall into disrepute because tunnel junkies dominate the Nationals. Never happen? Maybe not. Still, the proliferation of wind tunnels brings up some interesting questions about the future of formation skydiving. So, what do you think? By the way, boycotting the tunnel to save our sport isn’t in my future. I‘m not exactly one of those, “It’s not winning or losing, but how you play the game.” types. 87 days and counting. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

Thanks for all the info. Looks like, I'll be comin’ outta retirement (again). But now I have a new and equally provocative question. But I'll start a new thread for that one. ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.

I’ve been away a while. My last jump was in competition at the ‘97 Nationals. But after watching Manos’ lame ass, but fun “Cutaway” the other night on USA network, I’ve been thinking about coming outta retirement. I gotta get me one of those “maximum speed meters”! So, I check out the web, and find that things have changed a little since I’ve been gone. Bird manning? And pond swooping as a Nationals event? What the fuck is that all about? I’m not saying hook turns aren’t fun, and I know that kicking up a rooster tail looks cool and drives the chicks wild. But I noticed that the swooping forum has three times as many hits as this one. Is formation skydiving mainly for the dinosaurs these days? I'm still telling my self that I'm too young for VH1. So my question is, if I come back to do RW, will I be stepping aboard a sinking ship? Just what's the status of RW competition these days? ------------------------------------------------------- To those who say it’s a small world, let me tell you, I’ve seen the world, and it’s only getting bigger.