hukturn

The way I see it is that if you start at the same time it is up to her to keep the pace. It's a race afterall, right?!?

Wait a minute...I just noticed something. This post reads "please reply to this post with your name and license number (or USPA number) and we will add your name to the petition." You am not so sure that you can legally do that. To be a valid petition, I believe it requires entry by the person signing not by proxy since the petition itseld is a form of proxy. Many people on this site list their names and USPA numbers withe their personal information. Anyone could easily sign everyone up by simply looking through the members For instance, if I wanted to petition USPA no oppose the proposed BSR, I could very easily sign up "bill von novak" and list his USPA number "D 16479" and he may never know it. People are passionate about this topic and they may do ANYTHING. Hmmm...I think that you may want to consider another route. Where is your petition listed? I would like to review it.

My only point of contention in this is that the "teeth" are still going to be at the DZ level. You do not need USPA for that. You can establish a local policy and if anyone violates it, ground them. This is not a "hate the swoopers" issue. This is a safety issue. We can swoop safely, realatively speaking. No matter what, the S&TA or DZO will be the hated one...the enforcer. So, why even involvbe USPA? Still love your ideas, though. Is this the policy at your DZ?

Okay, does anyone watch this...particularly tonight. Wifey-poo called me in to watch a segment on the show. This dude was breaking pencils with his ass! No lie.

"The intention to swoop or not doesn't change safe exit order. If the pattern isn't clear, you dont swoop. How difficult is that? Want to 'get your swoop on' over everything else? Take a H&P. Want to do your FS stuff first? Accept the fact that you may not be able to swoop due to traffic. " The best recommendation I have heard from anyone thus far, by far. And, these are mangeable at the DZ level so you don't need BSR's to do it and they do not require segregated LZ's. Ultimately it is ging to rest on the shoulders of the S&TA or DZO to enforce anyway, no matter whether it is local policy or BSR. Great job translating all of this thread into a few sentences...you have my vote.

Here, here! Pre-manifest the night before. It all starts there.

Yup. But, I guess the flipside is if theyget down faster they have to endure the ride less...right?!?

I love my canopy. Always have. My wife is not the same. She never really liked flying a canopy. But, I think I made it worse when I packed her a spinner that she didn't get cutaway until about 800'.

Y'know, when I used to drink, I never ate any sweets. None. But, since I stopped...12 years, I do eat them. I will sit down and eat an entire pecan pie. Of course, since I quit smoking, I eat more too...dammit, I am doomed to polycotton! Guess I can sell my compsuit.

Ditto. I don't care how fast you are going. If you are in the left lane and someone comes up behiond you, move over.

Oh my...you are right. What was I thinking. I am delisional in my representation of the nineties. I could not possibly remember the jumps, the people, the parties. And my logbooks don't have it all recorded, either. Man, I must have been tripping the whole time. Really, I wasn't talking about the XXXXX Skygods like Piras, Bungee Wallace, Guy Manos, Mike Sandberg, Roger Ponce, et cetera. I was talking about you...believe it or not, you are a Skygod to someone. And, how you handle yourself will affect our sport. But, what the heck do I know. Maybe you are right. Maybe all of those 4-weay teams stuck in the video booths are really sharing their talent with others. Maybe everyone leaving the 100 jump wonders to fend for themselves is better. Sorry you don't know Carol. Helluva woman who has accomplished alot. I can't say that we are friends but I can say that she is not a jump snob. And, I can say the same about alot of other very accomplished skydivers. Maybe they just didn't invest in you because they did not see that you would pass the torch. I dunnno. But, I have enjoyed all of my experiences and I want to share. And I really believe this grows the brotherhood. Sorry, but I am letting this one go. I am doing the right thing and I know it. It is what I was taught as a very young skydiver and I plan to continue it.

One question I have failed to ask. In the spirit of your proposed BSR, how would you seperate landing areas on small DZ's? Would you advocate the crossing of two seperate landing patterns?

Thereby you put the decision in the hands of the USPA...not the DZ or the skydiver.

No...I pull because I want to. Nobody from USPA has ever pulled for me. I don't pull low to be macho. I have nly done so in the interest of skydiving safely in bad circumstances. And if I was grounded you would still be wrong...I would just go to another DZ until my restrictions were lifted where I want to jump. But, I am not talking about pulling low like 800ft. I mean the brief moment where you watch the person above you delploy before you throw because they tracked over you. So, maybe I should just dump into someones face? But, rules are rules, despite what ever else may be going on. Riught?!? Well, that is what USPA thinks. No...losing more freedom is not worth the tradeoff. I know that this is my personal decision and I know very few people share it. But I believe there is balance in everything. No...the S&TA did not handle it appropriately if what you say is true. But, Danny was allowed to do this on every DZ. So, Now what you have is still a training issue since I have NEVER known Danny to be grounded. The S&TA has the authority on the DZ. If he was too weak to stand his ground he should have been fired. Particularly if he believed what was occurring was unsafe. But I doubt that he really ever addressed the issue. I do not know who the S&TA is and I don't want to know at this point. By your arguement, he could have saved my friends life and he failed miserably. This is a DZ issue, let the DZ's resolve it. If they feel they need seperate landing areas, let them. If they feel they can not control it, they can close. The bottom line is thet we need tough people to make tough decisions. We do notneed Big Brothers involvement.. Everyone - I apologize for hording this thread. I will try not to be so reactive and just listen. I just do not believe that USPA should set forth BSR's on this.

More importantly in Raeford, the people have always been very disciplined in following traffic patterns, et cetera. Do it right or get Gene Pauls turqoise ring on the backside of your melon. It is a realatively small DZ and seperate LZ's might be difficult. So, everyone has always looked out for one another. There are some other rules like not overtaking other canopies, et cetera.

Bullshit...you are the one suggesting diffreently. You are the one proposing BSR. BSR takes the decision making process from the skydiver and from the DZ.

Agreed on some points, disagree on others. But I appreciate your feedback. "You have to pull by 2000 feet at USPA DZ's..." No, I have to pull by 2000ft because I want to. When I am in the air, USPA is not with me and they are not making the decisions. THAT is the difference. I make sound choices becaus I want to...not because I have to. I have pulled low and y'know what, may have taken a grim note had I done otherwise. I have never been grounded because oif pulling low because it was warranted in each circumstance. There are always times when rules need to be flexible. Don't lie...BSR's never go away even when we change our habits. The only thing that goes away is freedom. Don't get me wrong, I feel that there is a need for something. I am open to recommendations. But, USPA should not be the decision maker in this. It is a DZ problem which should be addressed at the DZ level. This is not about swooping through a crowded landing area. Let's not get too side tracked.T his is about segregated landing areas...that is what you are proposing. Landing areas can be crowded in swoop lanes or on the non-swoop LZ. In either event, people can still be hurt on the ground. So, let's repoint this to the real issue...canopy collisions and traffic patterns. Those are the two areas which yo can impact. But, they can be impacted by rigid DZ policies or they can be dictated by USPA. USPA is not on the DZ and they are not aware of daily operations or the needs of the DZ. Therefore, the most knowledgeable person becomes the DZO or the S&TA. Thus, they should be able to make the decisions which impact their operations. Do not pull someones reserve. Let your DZO or S&TA handle it. Peoples actions are highly interpretable and pulling someones reserve is a major infringement. You just might have reacted to without knowing all of the facts.

How's you shoulder. Sorry we mised you on Sunday in Chester. Will be at Raeford this weekend, though!

So, how long have yo been feeling this way?

"Thanks", Flip. Your response is well received. It seems that you and I are somewhat in agreement. I do believe there needs to be something in place. But what so many people are stating is that we need more regulation from USPA. I just do not believe that this should be a USPA issue. I think that DZO's are responsible and should take ownership for what happens on their DZ. Seperated landing areas may not work everywhere. Thus, again, it should be addressed locally. We who have been around for a while have all seen what happens when USPA "suggests" something. It is not long until the DZO believes "I have to do this to remain a USPA DZ". And, before long, a rcommendation becomes a regulation.

Dude...I am so waiting for Chipotle to come to my area. I had them when I was in Ohio.

He probably does not have any video/pictures to show you. Because a simulation to get a video/still would place someone in a very dire, needless position. Entangelents are very bad. It is easy to simulate other malfunctions by strapping on a third (chest mounted) parachute. You intentionallypack the malfunction and still have two more parachutes. You can not do this with entangelemnts. I think that the USAPT did some simulated entanglement videos in Yuma, AZ. Maybe you could ask them. Try; www.goldenknights.com

Hmmm...now that is a thought. BTW - can someone e-mail me and tell me how to quote in response? When I try, there is a bunch of garble in my text box.

"Newbie?? The ones I am most afraid of are the ones with 1000`s of Jumps. They already know it all and couldn’t possibly make a mistake, right?" A newby swooper...not a newby skydiver. He will make his approach onto the swooper area and cause problems. "What happens now? Every where is a Swoop area with the current rules." But when you intropduce students to the swopop[ area, you introduce increased hazards. "Last I checked that was the reason people take chances on an investment in a business. To make a profit. And with more profit usually comes better planes, Better Student Gear, Better Packing Facilities, and maybe even a new Swoop Pond. More power to them." Absolutely. But, don't take the money without accepting the responsibility. DZ's shouldn't push your probems off to someone else. DZ's should make a decision on how to handle and stick to it. Even if it means running off all of the talent on their DZ. Because a safe DZ is, well...safe. And that's cool. Even if I have to visit another DZ to make hot skydives. Similarly, maybe I should dump at 2000ft despite someone tracking over me. After all, I wouldn't want to pull low, right?!? "As long as they have Swoopers using me as a target..." I agree there, too. Swoopers should not swoop into traffic. I think they should be on a seperate pass, pull high, something. What dictates a swoop? 90d, 180d, 270+? I do not 270 but many people are quite proficient with it. But seperate landing areas will not always be feasible. What is the smallest DZ you have ever visited? Not all of them are 700 acres? But, I think you missed my point. I do believe there needs to be something...just not dictated by USPA. It is a DZ issue. But, I did not get your response on the BSR Waiver issue? Care to provide feedback?

Guys, this is not generational. And, I don't think that it has anything to do with entitlement. I think it has to do with segregation. I mean, the top level skydivers are not (often) investing in newer jumpers. When was the last time you got on a load with XXXXXX Skygod? Great, now did you pay...or at least pay for his slot to organize? THAT is our problem. When I was young, I was jumping with guys at National and World levels. And, I didn't pay for their jump, their organizing, their coaching. Hell, I rarely paid for video. That is just how we were connected. Now, everyone is on a 4 way Team and no time for anyone else. Now, everyone is in it for what they can take away from it. Get your heads out of your asses. SKYDIVE and have fun. There are alot of young skydivers who really know what they are doing. There are alot of old guys who can keep up with turning points. But, more importantly, give back. When was the last time that you asked a 100 jump wonder if you could snivel ontop his load? ME...last weekend. And, I am better for it. Carol Clay used to say that there was nobody she wouldn't jump with. And, it is true...because I did a 20 way invitational with her and Sandy in VA in June of 1995. Who is Carol Clay? If you don't know you better brush up on your "who's who" in skydiving. If she can make time, so can you. Invest in jumpers now or regret having nobody to skydive with later. Make the DZ the place to be. If it is raining, take a group of young jumpers into the hangar and show videos. If it is too windy, strap a student into the hanging harness for some training. If it s too dark, invite someone you don't know to your party. Sooner or later, the small isolated partes will merge and we will start to have one big party at the DZ's again. That is the brotherhood I remember. BTW - "Thanks" to everyone I have jumped with over the years. I have learned from all of you, no matter your experience level. Now, let me on your load, dammit!