GeorgiaDon

you need to stop talking about your 'actions' what you 'do' doesn't matter I can't even assess your story without three more pieces of info your race your political affiliation have you ever shot a lion only then may we judge you Are you trying to curtail my free speech rights? Are you racist? I'm a middle aged white guy and I got pulled over for not having a front license plate. My point was that I complied with the traffic stop and I did not get shot. People want to hold the officer accountable for his actions. I have no problem with that. But some people do not want to hold suspects accountable for theirs. I do have a problem with that. The suspect was not (presumably) being asked to get out of his car because he did not have a front plate, it was because he would not produce a license and had alcohol. The suspect did not get shot because he didn't have a front plate, it was because he was fleeing from the cops. The escalation was all on the suspect. No, I don't think the guy deserved to get shot, but if he had simply complied, he would not have been. Some people seem to think it's okay to just drive off from the cops? That's anarchy. My political affiliation is none of your business, and I have not shot any lions.You're new here, aren't you? When you've been around a bit you will come to recognize, and hopefully even appreciate rehmwa's sense of humor. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

From the article: "The white man accused of gunning down nine parishioners at a black church in Charleston wants to plead guilty to 33 federal charges, but his lawyer said in court Friday that he wouldn't do so until prosecutors say whether they'll seek the death penalty. During a brief arraignment in federal court, defense attorney David Bruck said that he couldn't advise his client, Dylann Roof, to enter a guilty plea without knowing the government's intentions." I think his lawyer is doing the only reasonable thing here. There is apparently no question about his guilt, just the penalty. If the prosecution insists on the death penalty he has nothing to lose by insisting on a trial, as the prosecution will have to convince the jury to vote for death. We just got done with a trial here where a local thug was convicted of murdering one guy just to send a message to the guy's friend, kidnapping another fellow, shooting one cop in the face (he survived), and shooting and killing another cop. Both cops were shot in their patrol cars, before they had any chance to draw their weapons or defend themselves. Despite all that the jury rejected the death penalty and sentenced him to life without parole. Similarly, several years ago Brian Nichols was on trial for rape when he beat up the deputy who was guarding him, stole her gun, killed the judge who was residing over his trial and a court reporter (in the court room, on camera and in front of many witnesses), killed a deputy while escaping the building, and later took refuge in a house that was being renovated and killed the owner, who happened to be a federal agent. Despite all that the jury rejected the death penalty and sentenced him to life without parole. Both these cases were in Georgia, a state not known as a hot-bed of liberal thought. The point is, you never know what a jury will decide when it comes to the penalty phase of the trial, and in a death penalty case it is always worth taking the chance. The prosecution could avoid the whole issue by agreeing to life without parole and taking the death penalty off the table. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

None of us have "all the answers", and no-one is arguing that shooting people in the head (or anywhere else) was an appropriate response to the situation. However, you seem to also have a problem with the fact that he was pulled over at all, and with him being asked to step out of the car. Let me ask you, do you think vehicles should have license plates at all? What do you think the police should do if they see an unlicensed vehicle being driven on a public road? [I know not all states require both front and rear plates, but in Ohio they do require both so the vehicle was not in compliance.] Do you think people should have to have a driver's license at all to drive on public roads? If people do have to have a license, and this fellow did not have one on him, what should a cop do? Just let him drive off? Assume he has one but just forgot it at home? Around here, if you are stopped and don't have your license on you, you get a ticket and have to call someone to come and pick you up, you are not allowed to continue driving. It's a nuisance, if you did just forget your license, but what is the alternative (in your opinion). BTW if you did just forget your license you have to go to the sheriff or police station and show it and they will cancel the ticket, another inconvenience but preferable to the alternatives IMO. While there can be innocent reasons for not having plates on your car (stolen and you didn't realize it, or bolts rusted and it fell off I suppose) in the great majority of cases it's because the car is unregistered, and usually that means the driver is uninsured at best, sometimes both uninsured and unlicensed. Personally I don't want such people sharing the road with me, and I don't have a problem with the police pulling over vehicles for missing license plates. Once again, that does not mean I want to see them shot in the head. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

No problem. Hope you have a fun & safe weekend. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

That's beneath you, Norm. I know your reading comprehension is better than that. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

He pulled the guy over for a license plate violation. Then the guy was unable to produce a drivers license, after which the guy reached down and grabbed a bottle of gin, which he handed to the cop. Who hands a bottle of liquor to a cop when they are asking for your driver's license? I think at that point the cop would have been well justified in having a suspicion that the guy in fact was driving without a license and while impaired. Certainly a road-side sobriety test would have been in order, which requires the driver to get out of the car. Instead, he pulled the door closed, put the car in gear, and started to drive off. Surely you are not saying that police should just let an unlicensed and possibly DUI driver just leave, and mail a summons later? Suppose a cop did that, and 5 minutes later the guy hits and kills someone; do you think people would just say "well there is nothing the cop should have done except let the guy drive away"? I am not saying anything that happened after that point was OK, because I do not believe it was. There is no evidence from the video that the cop was personally in danger, or was being dragged, and his response was totally unwarranted. But I disagree that cops should ignore unlicensed vehicles, unlicensed drivers, and DUIs. Where I live, we have had a number of instances in the last couple of years where drunk drivers who also were driving on suspended licenses hit pedestrians on the sidewalk or crossing in a crosswalk. In two cases young college students were left severely brain damaged, they will never again walk, talk, or even be able to feed themselves. In several others people are faced with months or years of painful rehab. I do not want unlicensed drunks driving anywhere. That doesn't mean they should be shot, but they also should not be permitted to just drive off either. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Did you turn down a Rhodes Scholarship to do so? Would you have? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Interesting graphic. However, if we look at the FBI data for 2012 we see very different numbers. The table you posted says 1,806 homicides for Chicago, but the FBI reports 679 murders and manslaughters for the greater metro Chicago area (not just the city itself, which was 500). So your source overstates the number of Chicago homicides by 3 times. That is not a rounding error, that is a bald-faced lie. I'm sure it's no coincidence that the table you posted understates the number of homicides in Houston significantly as well, 207 in your table vs 349 according to the FBI. I sometimes wonder why people find it necessary to make up "facts" to support their arguments. If the real numbers don't support your position, perhaps you should consider the possibility that your position is not connected to reality. Basing your arguments on easily refuted lies does not make them (or you) any more credible. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

It's a stretch (to say the least) to suggest Andy is standing shoulder to shoulder with Huckabee. I'm sure he's got something intelligent to say (unlike, say, Huckabee), and I'd like to hear it. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Sorry you were offended by an obvious joke. Anyway, I lived in BC during the Bill Vander Zalm "administration, and you don't get much more of a bad joke than that. I have no doubt that Rob Ford would have been an improvement in that case. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Would you mind saying why you think this is a bad deal on several levels? Also if you have a suggestion about a better deal, one that the Iranians might actually agree to, I'd like to hear it. I realize one might dislike this deal without necessarily having a concrete alternative. I'm fairly confident you aren't a proponent of the "glass parking lot" school of thought. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Yes, but I think their Canadian cousins offer-up stiff competition. (snip) Are Canadian voters really that lazy and stupid? Well, apparently... Yes. A response to an inflammatory statement from a Swiss poster with an equally critical redirection towards Canada is... enlightening.I think you missed the point. Why would someone like Ford draw such support, despite his obvious shortcomings? Perhaps because people are fed up with the usual brand of career politician? It's a sad day when so many voters feel a foul-mouthed alcoholic drug abuser is actually more likely to represent their interests than the slick party hacks are. How is Ford doing these days BTW? Has he recovered from his cancer? As a foul-mouthed alcoholic druggie cancer survivor he should be potential Prime Minister material. On the other hand, it's hard for me to see how anyone could find Trump to be someone they can relate to in any way. His whole history has been to take care of himself, there is nothing in his record to suggest he gives two shits about the "common people". He is entertaining, though, in much the same way as one might be "entertained" by watching a speeding train approach a car stuck on the tracks. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I've been around long enough to remember the US militarists and their redneck, Nixon-voting toadies saying the same thing about Southeast Asia. There's a lesson in that. Couple of 'em, actually, if you squint.Yes there is. However Southeast Asia did not have an Israel equivalent, which greatly complicates everything. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

You have not written one word that admits what we did to them. Agreed As your posts, and others, make perfectly clear we have "gotten over" exactly nothing. Interesting. So there was never any actual Iraqi insurgency, that was all Iranians. Got it. Which was in response to our earlier act of war against them. But I suppose they should have been grateful for being bent over and reamed, after all it was in a good cause (Western plundering of their oil). I know Iran is a bad actor in several ways, particularly in their support for Hamas. I just do not see how doubling down on the course of action that created modern Iran in the first place, that has failed to change their behavior, and that undermines a general pro-Western sentiment among the younger and educated population, is supposed to make anything better. IMO economic interaction is the best deterrent against war. Western Europe used to be a hot-bed of wars, but that is pretty much inconceivable these days because no-one could wage war without destroying their own economies. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Given the extent to which you seem to have swallowed the "products" of the right-wing misinformation campaign, it was not at all obvious to me that you were aware we were talking about allowing Iran to eventually (after it is verified that they are complying with the agreement) gain access to their own money. If we follow the plan of never lifting the sanctions, or creating an endless stream of demands so that when they meet one we'll just come up with three more, what incentive would the Iranians have to curtail their nuclear program? Can you name one country that has completely capitulated to American (or Israeli) demands, reduced themselves to groveling, in response to sanctions? Just one country? How did that work out in Cuba? In the event of never-ending sanctions, Iran will have no reason to put aside ambitions to obtain nuclear weapons. Indeed, since the only remaining measure the US (at Israel's behest) would have left to increase pressure is war. As North Korea has demonstrated, having the bomb is pretty good insurance against being invaded, so rather perversely it would seem that refusal to consider lifting the sanctions would likely encourage the Iranians to work to get a bomb as soon as possible. Good plan, if you plan is to ensure Armageddon ASAP. You might also consider that there are many other parties to the agreement, besides the US. The US might try to go it alone regarding sanctions, but that risks the US isolating itself from its allies and trading partners around the world. Would Congress bar the rest of the world from doing business in the US, or using US currency in international business, unless they capitulate to our demands as well? Currently the US dollar is the currency of international banking and trade, but that is to some extent a matter of convenience and it could change if the US becomes too belligerent towards our allies and trading partners. We could risk becoming an economic backwater, cut off from the rest of the trading world, if we try to blackmail the rest of the world and they tell us to piss off. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

So are you saying the ~150 Billion in Iranian money tied up in international banks due to sanctions will not be given back to the Iranians due to the signing of this deal that the US negotiated? It's not our money, we are not giving them anything. It is their money, which we and other signatories to the sanctions have blockaded. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Sometimes even when police do try to call out bad actors nothing happens. Here is a case where four officers and two other witnesses have all given depositions that an officer shot someone while that person had his empty hands (no weapon) up on top of a screen door, while the person was talking to a police negotiator. Two years later, the prosecutor is "still investigating". Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Nice way to minimize the facts: 1. We (via the CIA) engineered a coup to overthrow their democratically elected government and install a dictator of our choosing (the Shah). [Look up "operation Ajax" if you don't believe me.] 2. We (via the CIA) trained the Shah's secret police, the SAVAK, in techniques of torture as well as infiltration of virtually all political activity opposed to the Shah; these tools SAVAK used to great effect to suppress political dissent. Along the way thousands of Iranians were imprisoned and tortured for years, or often just "disappeared". We also spent billions to keep the Shah's military and SAVAK well armed. By smothering the country's developing democracy and installing a dictator who had no scruples about the lengths he would go to, to protect his own power, we (unintentionally I'm sure) forced the marriage of political dissent with fundamentalist Islamic beliefs, by elevating exiled religious leaders such as the Ayatollah to the position of spokesmen for anti-Shah politics. That is a lot to "let go" of. Even so, we can provide a great example. Just look at how we let go of that whole Bay of Pigs fiasco. Or maybe not. Considering the history, and the rhetoric coming from the mouths of politicians who are determined to oppose anything and everything coming from the Obama administration regardless of the long-term damage they do along the way, what incentive do the Iranian leaders have to trust us? Yet, they have agreed to measures that Americans would never agree to. A large segment of the Iranian population would like to see normalized relations with the rest of the world. Most (or all) of the anti-American rhetoric is coming from the generation that personally suffered under the Shah, suffering they correctly blame the US for, but these people are elderly now and in 15 years, when the nuclear agreement ends, they will be gone from the stage. Speaking of "letting go", it's long past time the US let go of the Iranian hostage crisis, ideally acknowledge that there was good reason for the leaders of the Iranian Revolution to direct their anger to Americans (though Americans rarely ever admit any fault, and American politicians never do), and start to try to allow Iran to become what it was in 1953 before we screwed them up royally: a normal country with a democratic government and a vested interest in peaceful interactions with the rest of the world. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

This might be a clue: "Posted by Buster Himen" I agree, though, that it's too over the top to be very funny. I also wonder how it is that Amazon knows about such sites. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Good luck to him, and (tangentially) to you. One of several benefits of my getting US citizenship was that I and my family will never have to deal with USCIS (or "USELESS" as we referred to them) again. Everything about the immigration process seemed designed to treat people as criminals or incipient terrorists, to keep you in the dark and worried that they had forgotten to process your paperwork (knowing that you would bear the consequences of any screw-ups on their part), and to suck large amounts of money out of your pocket. They completely screwed up my son's citizenship application, and made us pay a lot of money to appeal. We spent almost a year waiting for a hearing, not knowing if he would be deported. Then at the hearing the immigration official admitted that USCIS had made a mistake and we had actually done everything by the book. When I asked if I could get my money refunded I was told too bad, there is no process for that. I have no good memories of any interaction I ever had with those guys. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

No-one here can speak with any authority on your room-mates situation, other than the advice you have heard from a couple of folks: he needs to retain a good immigration attorney ASAP. The DUI has the potential to be a big factor. Even seemingly small issues can make a difference. For example on any working visa, and even with a green card, you are required to notify USCIS within 10 days of any change of address, and (although it is unusual) people with green cards have been held and deported for failing to report an address change. A DUI on top of overstaying the visa (you don't say for how long) is not a minor issue. Claiming asylum from a former employer is unlikely to work, especially when the home country is part of Europe and a NATO partner. It's not like he's claiming asylum from a third world dictatorship where he is regarded as an enemy of the state or something. The US is reluctant to grant asylum even to people who have put their lives on the line by helping US forces in Iraq or Afghanistan. I hope your room-mate isn't into you for too much money. It's telling that he is still being held after weeks in custody. My guess would be that there is more going on than you know and you won't be seeing him again, unless you want to go to Portugal. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

What exactly are we voting for? Biggest asshole? Most likely to win the nomination? Most likely to win the election? Most likely to keep late night talk show hosts swimming in material for jokes? Least connected to reality? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Organic farming is about reducing the use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers, not about reducing CO2 emissions. It's no surprise that "that the rise of certified organic production in the United States is not correlated with declines in greenhouse gas emissions ", as organic production has nothing to do with greenhouse gasses. One might as well lament that the rise of organic farming has not reduced the number of people needing glasses. Do you and rushmc get together and discuss lame strategies to attack anything you perceive to be "environmentalism", or do you just listen to the same talk radio? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

So says the guy who thinks mercury isn't really a toxin, really? I wil be looking forward to you proving that bsthat's all made up as part of a "liberal agenda" to shut down power plants. Do you still believe the Japanese were poisoning their kids in the 1950s as part of a sinister plot to create a false premise for liberals to use (50 years later) against coal burning power plants? Don And your mercury statement??? You are taking lesson from kallend when it comes to truth now I see In the thread on the EPA and mercury regulation (link) I asked you "Do you think unregulated dumping of mercury and arsenic into the air is "good"? You replied (post 21 of the linked thread): "Regulation and political agendas are two different things Want another example? Look at the waters of the US regulations set for Aug 1 Another abuse of power It is agenda Not science that drives them" Your statement was clear: mercury poisoning is not based on science, it is a political agenda. I gave you the opportunity to clarify your meaning when I asked you (post 31 of that thread): "Are you saying that all the information on the health effects of mercury are bogus, made up by "liberal doctors and scientists" over decades just to one day be able to harass poor innocent power plant companies? All the way back in the 1950s those liberal Japanese fabricated Minamata Diseaseso one day the EPA could use it to advance some political agenda? " At that point you simply stopped responding and started another thread about Hillary Clinton not knowing how to work a fax machine. So we are left with your statement: "It is agenda Not science..." According to your own words and responses you do not believe that mercury is an environmental problem, and you believe that mercury poisoning is a trumped-up cause to further the liberal anti-power-company agenda. Since concern about environmental mercury contamination dates back to the recognition of mercury as the cause of Minamata Disease in the 1950s, you must believe the Japanese as far back as the 1950s were participants in a fraudulent effort to paint mercury as a dangerous environmental contaminant to support a liberal agenda. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

So says the guy who thinks mercury isn't really a toxin, that's all made up as part of a "liberal agenda" to shut down power plants. Do you still believe the Japanese were poisoning their kids in the 1950s as part of a sinister plot to create a false premise for liberals to use (50 years later) against coal burning power plants? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)