ziboulateur

"But you are right in that it is the guy that is out there lost or trying to get back in that is going to take you out big time. That type of situation is something you have little control over - best you can do is flock with birds you know and trust." IslandGuy, we have touched the subject of trust before (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2709551;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#2712977) I agree, I'd be also more comfortable jumping with people I jumped with a lot before but I really think its best to count only on your eyes and instruments in the sky. >>That type of situation is something you have little control over Sorry, I disagree. You do have some control if you are at least looking where you are going. The incident that we talked about a couple of weeks ago clearly shows that a person "taking you out" doesn't even have to make an active effort to take you out. It could even be a tandem canopy, a high puller etc. The higher your airspeed - the higher your responsibility for scanning the airspace in general direction of your travel. If you are flying on your back and looking straight up at your buddy, the only person you can objectively trust for navigating and checking the airspace is him, your buddy. Blindly trusting anyone else for not being on your way just makes no sense to me. Also when shit happens, it happens fast - very hard to remember afterwards if the "actual direction of the source of the light" changed 30 degrees or not. I'm not with you, guys but I wish you beautiful and safe flocking. Can't wait to see pictures and videos.

Thanks for all the input guys. Good points, good thoughts. Lets be safe out there and not take safety for granted. Look, think, read this forum, have safe fun.

I tumbled to dodge the upper jumper that I couldn't see. Lessons to be learned: don't trust anyone. I don't think that should stop us from looking at this objectively and learning something. - Exactly. This is what my post was for. Questions are good. What would cause you to tumble to avoid another flyer that you did not see? - I was watching all 3 jumpers (2 way and video guy) until 2 of them got beyond my peripheral vision (above me). Once the lower jumper passed me I knew I had one more above me. So I rolled on my side, closing my left wing. That was an instinctive avoidance, a way to lose altitude. Also, I don't see how trust has anything to do with what I saw in the video, but, an explanation might clear that up. - This is more philosophical. You got no friends in the sky. Period. Any object or creature is a source of danger to you. Therefore if you move forward and encounter an object on your way by surprise - it means you have put too much trust in your environment without checking it. In this particular case the base has encountered me on their path by surprise. How did you come to pass so close to the base at such a high speed? Did you loose track of them (I believe there were 3 others in the flock) or did you misjudge the closing velocity as you were trying to rejoin the group? - If you watch the slow-mo, you'll see that I was not moving towards the base but the base caught up with me. We were flying in the same direction. The closing speed you are seeing is Base speed minus My speed. Impressive, isn't it? I kept track of the base the whole time. What I did wrong is that I was passively waiting for opportunity to join the base with no speed for maneuver. I should have positioned myself to be rejoining the base from the side and behind. That would put me in a situation I could control better. Also joining the base from the "inside" of the turn just isn't as safe as doing it from the outside, if you see what I mean. What I have misjudged is the speed of the base and in how little time they can reach me if they changed heading. You can see my knees were bent, so I had very little forward speed, the base in contrary punched it out. Glad you are all here with us to talk about this. - Yes, very glad indeed. I'm also glad we have impressive video and a description of the situation to avoid. Thank you!

Thats exactly what happened. I was the yellow-orange blur. I'm attaching an approximate drawing of our trajectories and a video with a slow-mo. I overtook the base and started flying slowly cutting the corner (yellow line), trying to match heading of the base, waiting for them to overtake me on a parallel course so that I could coast from the side. (dots are to show progress) Duh.. The base slightly changed heading and I found myself on their path...3 seconds...zoom...two of us were born again. We didn't touch. I tumbled to dodge the upper jumper that I couldn't see. Lessons to be learned: 1.Anticipate. Don't sit in the danger zone or drive 20 Mhr in a fast lane. It should have been very obvious that the base would turn towards me at some point. 2. Look where you are going and don't trust anyone. Your friends might be there trying to kill you. We were extremely lucky to walk away. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp3-7pbJ3WM http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4616167859921692248&pr=goog-sl

Here we go... buzzing wingsuits... who would have thought ? http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7867 ..or maybe it would be just like putting 100 vibrating cellphones on your skin...brrrr

Just picturing what a zoo it would be Ooof, docking on such a thing would be quite challenging and at breakoff everyone just flies through ...

...just a cloud of hair, shredded nylon, the occasional chunk of carbonfuckingfiber... Hehe

Here's an old flat spin thread. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1149358;search_string=flat%20spins;#1149358 ScaryPerry, it would be great to hear your experiences! Thanks

All I can say this reinforced ready to fly wing looks very sexy. I hope S5 is even sexier Thanks for the info!

I've never seen an s4. Is that it on the pic or something "else"? BTW, some awesome pictures in these galleries. http://www.ruexp.ru/photo/displayimage.php?album=18&pos=35

this summer I had great fun climbing a dry tall pine tree to fish out a "diablo" chopped by a fellow wingsuit flier. (never got my earned pound of bananas ) reason for a chop: spinning line twists possibly due to a less than ideal body position during deployment and/or unmodified javelin container. W/L: ~1.5 ... just 2 cents

If I havent tried that S1 that day, I probably wouldnt bother buying a WS at all. I'm very glad I did! Even though it felt twitchy with just 2 classic jumps under my belt (I've been advised not to do that, but did anyway. new birds, please dont be jackasses like me), it gave me that instant high (when maxing out just before starting potato-chipping), that was worth all that money and stress! N-Crack, what can I say..?! new england will be on the look out too...

Sorry to hear that I'm sure your suit is going to be back soon though. This world is too small unless it was stolen by a martian. Hey, I have an S3 just like yours ! I have ordered it after trying out an S1 demo suit last year (I guess the one you are talking about) and picked exactly the same colors (totally loved them). I'm ready for a lot of questions when I put mine on at Perris after the 4-way is over ... though I hope you'll have yours back before that time. Good luck!!! Nik

Hmmm, I'd love to read it. I'm curious how they define "buzzing"... Thanks for the replies!!!

I've been involved in an animated email discussion about "Buzzing the tandems" and I'm trying to see where the WingSuit community stands on the topic these days. Below is the text of one of my emails. Sorry for stirring it up. Feel free to flame me. I need it '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' This is a great discussion as long as techical and ethical aspects are brought up carefully and weighted conclusions are drawn. It is very easy to turn this into a dead horse beating because the topic is so marginal. Yes, definitely it would be safer if tandem swooping was banned just as low pulls and CRW with tandems are. Would it make sense to define first what tandem swooping is or is it really "swooping" at all? Are we putting in one basket close flybys that in my opinion are 100% unethical and dangerous with distant flybys that can be done safely? Can they be done safely? Yes, one can argue about the fine edge between close and far. What far is, 100ft, 300ft, a mile? The same applies to the flyer's experience. Who can do it? How the experitise could be proven? If Jari came to our DZ and asked if he could "swoop" a tandem? What answer should we expect him to hear? But what about a properly executed distant flyby that makes a tandem passenger, a tandem master and and the bird exclaim "wow, it was so cool"! I believe wing suit fliers who want to "swoop" tandems have not that many arguments in favor of what they are doing except demonstrating that it is not a wreckless meat missil business, but can be a planned, courteous and safe sharing of the airspace at distances allowing visual contact. And I clearly hear people who see winsuit fliers as another drop in the ocean of danger that surrounds DZ business. And putting myself in their shoes I'd say - "dont get ANYWHERE close to the tandems!" Do we need a strict policy or there are people out there who believe coexistence is possible? Since I have flown my winguit a couple times at distances allowing the tandem pair to see me with previous consent of the tandem masters, I am greatly involved in this discussion and thats why I'm bringing my 2 cents even though my experience is very minimal at my 100~ winsuit jumps. Sincerely, Nikolai Mosesov ............................. I'm swooping the Moon tomorrow! See ya there!

I got myself into one again this past week-end trying to do a "RW-style" diving exit. I flailed and spun up on my back. This time it took me good 3k ft to get out of it. I'll keep practicing until I nail this exit and flat spin recovery.

Michelle, what about a rodeo flocking dive for your 100 with video and maybe stills?! Here my thinking : what I bird should be really looking for in ANY rider is ability to keep low adrenaline during a plane ride, exit, flight and breakoff (low jumps+lots of variables=high stress), full altitude awareness, ability to follow the plan without major brainlocks, being comfortable with having to roll off bird's back and recover from totally unstable breakoff, being able to have a firm, yet relaxed hold on bird's rig (no monkey reflexes, just let go if you need), being ready to adjust COG if necessary according to what had been agreed at dirtdive and to be able to pull at an appropriate altitude - higher if the bird has spotted you long. And the most important to be relaxed and have fun! It will help if you have done rear-float exits when you have to anticipate the count and put yourself low realtively to the center floater. The rodeo exit is easy when the rider leaves right on time and puts himself low on the bird's back. We found that it works the best when the rider holds the bird's rig with his hands somewhere in the middle and squeezes the lower part of it with his elbows to stay as close as possible.

I had one past Saturday dropping off my rodeo passenger. The plan was: 6000 ft - I initiate a barrel roll – The passenger lets me go – I fly away and pull by 4500 ft. We had a good exit, nice flight. The passenger had a pretty strong grip all the way to break-off altitude. As I flipped on my back I could still feel him holding on for a brief moment. The instant he let go I tried to roll back on my belly and there IT was! First reaction was to force things back belly-to earth. Ha-ha-ha!!! It just got worse (3000 rpm at least J). Next thought – screw it – slow is fast – I’ve got altitude. I went limp, extended my arms in front of my chest. In 3 seconds or about 4 revolutions the spin stopped, I rolled back tracked away, pulled at 4500 and saw my friend at the same altitude. Fun stuff. I have to tell it was my first one …….. I know… Suit – SF3 A question to experienced birds: What’s the proper way to get rid of a passenger in flight?

Thats awesome Lurch! I spent an hour looking at the moon yesterday imagining IT while you were actually doing IT! Is that DZ planning night jumps again tonight or over the week-end? Come to fly over Orange, MA some time. The flock is growing quickly over here!

Hmmm...Jeff! Moonlight bladerunning! At least the air might be really calm. Do we need to buy a night vision device :)? How's your cold, man. Going climbing saturday? Stan? Nik

Allright, finally got the pic And ready to WIN. Hey, you silver birdies all look awesome! ... but no flying carrots seen here up until NOW! (that's obviously not me in the suit) Cheers :) ...aflock... Nik

Thank you guys for your responses and advice! Sam, enormous thanks to you for joining me on my first flights. Awesome 2-ways, great visuals, great fun!!! Yes, I’ve made my first S3 flights on Sunday and guess what … I had a blast! It felt very comfortable in flight, way easier than it was on my flight No 3 on Skyflyer1 after two classic flights. Probably a dozen GTI flights in between helped a bit too. Even after a bootie came off on a front flip it was easy to keep things in order. My Sabre150 and Dolphin container gave me sweet on-heading openings. And definitely I see tons of things for me to work on. I have no protrack, so no graphs, sorry. >>Is this question based on either your or your friends actual experience or is it >>"what if"ing? Because I don't see how this could happen. It was just a “what if" question based on my conversation with an experienced original “Skyflyer” pilot who seemed to be suspicious about the gripper on S3. >> Picture us! Unfortunately I forgot to ask a friend who had a digital camera to take a picture. Well maybe it’s good not to post it… otherwise everybody will start ordering my colors because they are way cool Blue skies …aflock… Nik

Hello! I have a question to the flock: Does a wingtip gripper on S3 present any hazard at pull time? There is a little soft "gap" between the gripper and the sleeve. I tried to loop the bridle around the gripper's ends, squeezing wing fabric. It looks to be quite unlikely that the bridle will get caught at deployment and if it does, the bridle will probably come off. A few months ago I had a chance to talk to a very experienced wingsuit flyer, who had told me about this issue. What do You think? BTW, my beautiful yellow and orange S3 finally arrived and we both cannot wait to get in the air! Thanks a lot, ..aflock, aflock.. Nik

I'm sure there are rigs more suited for freeflying, but here are a few facts and only my opinions: I've got ~700 jumps (about 400 of them freefly) on my dolphin 2000 (all velcro, long riser covers, bridle protective flap, grommet and stiffener mods). I had riser covers open once while backtracking, reserve flap open twice when sitflying. And nothing else I can remember. My rigger replaces all the velcro every time he repacks my reserve. I'll keep freeflying with it because I feel relatively safe doing it with THIS model as long the velcro is replaced regularly. And if you don't firmly press on velcro when closing flaps or covers, they will come loose! The best thing about my D2 is that I bought it with Sabre 190 and now it holds a 120. Works fine for me. Just the matter of adjusting the loop. Don't take is as advice though, don't downsize that much with the same container as other issues come to play as main-reserve size issues, contailer look and maybe something that I don't know about.