Cola

Are you trying to taunt me back to the social aspects of the Vortex?

I agree JAG I think they got this right in the end. George Harris was listening from Seattle and taking notes. 8:05 - Cooper reports he's all good 8:11 Crew mentions fluctuation in the cabin and that Coops is playing with the air stairs. 8:22 Crew reports positioning of being 23 DMES of PDX. I trust in Sluggo's work, he noted, @ 8:22 - 23 NM S of Battleground/pdx VORTAC ( which isthe PDX VORTAC location in Orchards) I have not drilled into the flight details but is there is there any record of the Battleground/PDX VORTAC turn time, other then the tick marks and times noted on the on the flight path map?

Love the subtle recreated ticket stub clip, nice touch! I do hold out hope that the ticket is in Cooper's handwriting and not Lynse. The magazine parts and notes found on the plane which have yet to be released refer to printing thereon and possibly 4 witnesses having observed Coop's writing. Whether witnessing him write or just reading his writing could be debated. Is it possible Lynse observed Cooper write? Anyone have a photo of Bill Mitchell's ticket stub or other ticket stubs? Has Bill ever commented on who filled out his ticket? My guess is that the 302's will never offer up any writing samples from Lynse or the compiled ticket stubs of the other passengers to look at for uniformity of penmanship across the stubs. Possibly there is a way to obtain a writing sample of Lynse.

Yes, there were prints of value pulled form the magazine parts found in Seattle in the seat back. Without checking my reference - I believe this is where the partial palm prints come from. There was writing here also with felt pen that the Agency was going to pass by witnesses to see if this were in fact his penmanship and that this material was Cooper's. I have been waiting on these pieces to be scanned and released in the 302's. I do believe I once came across an evidence envelop listing - part of magazine on it but no scan of the contents or these items. I'll have to check on that though. I have some immediate work in front of me, but I'll gather and post what I have in 2 weeks time then OCD out on prints with anyone else that cares to toss a hat in.

I have no working knowledge of stubs and I would bet against this thought but I'd like to know. Tom mentioned Nickle contamination in the original stubs I'm guessing stubs embed the particles in some type semisolid gel. Is there a possibility of doing a stub transfer form the old stubs to new stubs leaving the contamination of nickle behind?

Georger, Your right. For me my intent of being here was to focus on the problem and sharpen my understanding by interacting with members of the Vortex. However, I have embraced the social aspect of the Vortex and I've rarely had a chance to get at the depth of the problems. I declined FB because I know it's easy social dopamine and I would be consumed by the chatter over there. I've always been good with resolutions so till the end of this year, I'm going to re-commit myself to focusing on the problem and refrain from social postings in the Vortex. Maybe this is the one change I need. Best, COLA

Dear Coops, If your out there. Just so you know, you can always social media with me buddy. Hey, a PM for the Holidays would be nice but don't fell obligated. WBS COLA

"That is both excellent and good enough"

touche, you sunk my supposition. I guess I do think on Mark's story a little too often "When I was working at the Public Defender's office in Oakland CA, I had a seasoned old cop tell me, over donuts no less, that I didnt know criminals at all. He said: "Kid... you just know the dumb ones because you only deal with the ones who get caught." - or maybe not.

The case has not expired and this is not a media competition. Ryan's work should not be seen exclusively as Coopertainment. Going through the 302’s and the case evidence is labor intensive. I would trade the labor of 8 weeks or more of scrolling through 45,000 pages and picking them apart, but not the experience and insight of that effort. Ryan’s done this hard work also, but he took that experience and added to it the additional step of producing content. He's done a great thing in the last year of synthesized a number of areas within the 302's. On the whole his productions have made the reported facts of the case and some base assertions of the 302's vastly more consumable and accessible to a general audience. No one in the history of the vortex has ever drilled in on the 302's like this and then taken the time to create the content to bring an awareness of these reported facts to the Vortex. He’s myth busting here also, helping us with historical discovery and context, and keeping us on the known facts. I think because he is putting himself out publicly that he is conservative in his assessments and applies a high standard to what he produces. After all he’s got to stick to the facts to avoid being criticized for creating myth. And I have not seen a single post dinging him for misrepresenting or misreporting the known facts or holding his thoughts or beliefs out as fact. Media has always been part of the investigative process here. Carr used the media to reinvigorate the public interest in the case and hopefully shake something loose. Maybe Ryan's media will shake something loose one day. "You never know"

Cooper's $20: Cooper likley paid for the drink with a $20 with the intent of bringing Flo back to him with the change. He wanted to create a reason for Flo to have another encounter with him. Bill Mitchell recalled Coops spilling his drink. If that is true, this may have occurred after the change was provided and as a further ploy to bring Flo over and tend to him so that he could then pass the note and initiate the job. What are we dealing with here? Is this someone with the capacity to on the fly obscure his actions and manipulate his environment to elicit a desired response? I think so.

Robert - Truth is not universal or absolute. This is why truth has been conveyed in moral law as "thou shall not bear false witness" and in the written law as Perjury. If truth were universal and absolute then there would be no need for the moral and written law to remind us to practice it. I have more to say on reality and facts, but no time to respond at the moment. Can you clarify your question - "What institution are you associated with?"

Robert - Our minds construct our own versions of reality. Reality is unique and tailored by the perceptions within each of us. This is a basic concept - take an Adult and a Child and place them in the same circumstance and their reality and perceptions will be worlds apart. Place a Republican and a Democrat in the same circumstance and their versions of reality and the perception used to construct their realities will differ. There is no universal reality. No universal perception. No reality or perception ever held by a person; is, was, or will be identical to any others. If you want to assign your own semantics to my post that support your perception of reality, I cannot stop you. All I can do to counter your Denial is to express my reality and share my perception, my truth and my Known -which is that my post - was every bit genuine. I do not know what more I can say to you to get you to Accept this, so I'll not argue the point with you further. I'm sorry you did not see my post for what it was. I'm sorry you did not feel the genuine warmth that I tried to show you. All the best to you. COLA Thinking, Believing, Knowing, Proving - Acceptance - Denial

Robert- Congratulations on hitting 15 years. I hope to retire within the next 5, but all of my proxies suggest otherwise. I could never read Tom Sawyer past a certain point, but I have received the gist of it over my life. All your post, your thoughts, and your interactions over those 15 years have entered the zeitgeist of the Vortex and I believe the gist of what you have put down in that time I will receive in the aggregate. You have helped the Vortex in ways I am aware and unaware of and I am both thankful for and appreciative of your contribution. Now, wouldn't it be a good a time to finally bury that ax Robert and not have your legacy in the Vortex be of us remembering you - for that ax. Best, COLA

Its just a but its humor for anyone on the board that has followed the prior reference.

I'm now applying the thought hierarchy to what Robert is telling me - Thinking, Believing, Knowing, Proving - Acceptance - Denial Georger - I'm thinking of ordering “Occlusal Paradox" shirts you want one?

Caucher - we are all good, you and I are kindred spirits in this misadventure. I do enjoy a little banter now and then and if you and Robbert want to peck at each other over these things that's your prerogative. I'll sit back and watch the show. I apologies for pushing "my belief" that these things should be buried. I try to be selective in what I spend time on which are the other areas you highlighted. The - Sage, DZ, Flight Path, and jump time are not dead yet, if you are willing to do the unpleasant job of getting out the paddles, shock these issues and cracking a rib cage, then there may be life here. (I'm not that guy) There is a potential of yielding results, but these areas need an investigative course, they need action, not discussion. A call to action to bring life back into these areas: If the presumption is true that he tossed out the case then that item would have fallen within V-23. Where within V-23? Between the oscillations, which may have been him tossing out the briefcase, and concluding with the pressure bump when he jumped. You, someone or a team that has the will and knowledge should estimate a refined briefcase LZ. Apply that LZ to a topo and put it out here for consideration. -then- Do an topo overlay of the property addresses that fall within that briefcase LZ. Next Consider doing a Gofundme maybe with possibly Nickky's help to finance a Flyer- mailer describing the briefcase and its anticipated state now. If you a team or someone else brings that together, I have no issues contributing the first $250 to a Gofundme that puts a line in the water. (that is a standing offer) Maybe there is not a briefcase to be found but maybe there is something else that we can make use of or need. These areas need action to give them life, not discussion. However, your discussion and your shared knowledge is not wasted as it may be this sharing which is the provocation for that person in the future to execute the needed action.

Chaucer, for posterity your take is valued, the Vortex needs members who have your level of commitment to become experts on the various puzzle pieces. This knowledge has contributed to our understanding and the expertise will come in use. Now, whether dead or alive 50 years on is the statement, Cooper landed somewhere within Clark County, All that we need to understand? Dose zooming in more than that help us. Are we ever going to zoom in close enough on the Sage,DZ, Flight Path or jump time data to see him hit the ground. (sure Orchards seems better but that was out 37 years on) If you agree Clark County is good enough and close enough, then let's let these other things go: Sage - Radar DZ Flight Path Jump Time

Settling the matter will not move the needle of the case in the tinniest bit. Widdle your wood in areas of the case that may come to Points which matter. Let's let these things go R.I.P Sage - Radar DZ Flight Path Jump Time

That's not the extent of the utter nonsense. let these things go

Recovered Canopy Serial Number Stencile- credit Tom Kaye Citizensleuths.com

Dudeman - Anyone with canopy experience - is there a standard for the number of lines on chutes from this era? If I were a rigger would expect that 80% or 90%+ of front chute canopy's would have a set standard of say 24 shroud lines? Is there much variance across canopy's for the number of shroud lines in that era. If they noticed 2 lines missing what are the chances they would have further verified each of the lines to see that it was indeed only 2 missing and not 3 or 4 or 5 lines missing. I have no answers for why this starts at 2 lines and ends at 5. If there were only 24 lines in a canopy, I dont think Coops had pulled all 5 lines of the 79ft . Would it be easier to notice the removal of 20% of the lines or 8%. (5 vs 2) After the evidence was collected, I think someone for some reason took a minimum of 2 lines form the evidence/chute. So maybe Cooper pulled 2 lines or 3 lines but not 5 lines. Is 2 lines enough to tie the money bag and do a drag bag? 3 lines I think woudl be enough, 2 lines maybe just the right amount. 79 ft of lines would that be overkill or double wrapping? Anyone ever see an experiment on the DZ of how far 30ft of line will go? DISCLAIMER- Clarification: I'm posing a lot of questions that can't be answered. I hope the questions come across as wanting to get at a truth. To me we get closer to a truth in making sound inferences, speculations, guesses, experiments... and building some confidence level in our theories and work.

na dude, he was never going to repack them.. Think of the intention in asking for 2 sets.Why? In ordering 2 sets that gave him the optionality of which one to use and one set to fully inspect and look for tampering. He was never going to take a stew with him - that's stupidity. I dont think it was a ruse when he asked for 2 sets I think it was more for optionality and inspection. I think he may have started that inspection with the Dummy chute because it was odd looking. Then he also got into the good front chute just to make sure or for line for Tina or who knows. What came first - his awareness that he was not receiving the knapsack or him cutting into the chute? Reported Fact: He had one front chute open prior to Tina completing on-boarding all of the chutes and stuff. She was in process. Question - his frustration over them not providing the Knapsack was this a reactive statement or an assumption. Question- did it start out as an assumption by Cooper and would he have clarity on this thru Tina? Prompting Tina to go out there and check for the knapsack. She returns and tells him for clarity - they forgot the Knapsack and then he reacts. Did he start opening the chute before he had awareness that no Knapsack had been provided? That sequence would suggest inspection to me.

Parachute Serial number evidence -/insight Great detail... Maybe Eric should promote CooperCon as the repository for future chutes that the public may find going forward in the DZ. I'm confident Tom would have some ideas on how to enhance the ink if a new chute was found that had been exposed to the elements. I we can enhance scrolls that are thousands of years old I'm optimistic on this thought. I think there is definitely a possibility that the chute came in, but so many years on I don't see the chute detail coming into full focus in the Vortex and it being settled. Maybe Fly had it or Ryan has it down, I missed the exchange last summer on the chutes.

I give it a maybe, I dont know what Larry's reference on this one was.He had access to work product that we don't have. Maybe the statement is true. As inferred by Tina's Interview's Cooper seems to have cut into the chute two separate times. The first time around where he tied the bank bag up like a hobo would a feed sack. That time, he may have exhausted all of the line in front of the stews whom noted this to an interviewing agent. So on takeoff he decided to go in a second time for the drag bag line instead of fastening the bag to his belt or harness or whatever. I still like the Dag Bag theory, if he opened both fronts then there is the unaccounted for cordage. Without the other front chute open, I don't have an answer for how to credit or discredit the records that say 2 lines in Vegas, then 3 lines in Seattle, then 5 lines missing when Tom's team inspected the chute. I guess it would come down to consideration and or what we know of the conditions of the initial evaluation of the chute at Nellis AFB by plural men. Who were those men? It's at an AFB so these were riggers themselves.This would be a big deal for those guys. With two guys there are dynamics there. Hey guys lets impress the FBI agents and do a through job? The memo is very detailed. How do they inspect it in a hanger, on a table in a repack room. Did anyone ever take shroud lines as a souvenir between 71 and when Tom looked at it?