deathtrap

Don't forget about the incredible collapsible canopy option attached to the front risers of the Xfire 1...

Untwist your panties, sheesh If the other poster hadn't stated thinly veiled marketing jibberish as "facts", I probably wouldn't have posted. People deserve the truth, and if anything I posted was wrong, feel free to correct or educate me. I actually like packing Racers- they're a break from the norm and I have packed enough of them that I don't struggle. But they DO require more tools, and changing the closing loop takes far more time than it does with any other rig I have experience with.

Not a correct statement about the Jump Shack Racer. Here are some facts. Teflon cutaway cables: maintenance-free (who really remembers to oil their yellow Lolon cables once a month?) I guess if you don't want to inspect the red cable for cracked coating, you could maybe consider them maintenance free. Doesn't sound like a good survival method in this sport to consider anything gear related to be maintenance free, IMO. Can you explain this statement? What does a compressable/non-compresable housing have to do with if the loop gets pulled into the housing or not? Line dump doesn't cause parachute failure, otherwise every square reserve ever deployed would have blown up. BAG STRIP may cause a parachute failure, but the bungee safety stow would have to break for that to happen, and I'm not aware of any bungee failures. Is anyone else? Bullshit. The shape of the handle will not reduce the force required to clear the pins from the closing loops. If any rig has an "ergonomically shaped ripcord handle", it's the Centaurus, but it won't reduce the force required to pull pins. Agreed More BS. In order for the Racer PC to do this, it would have to launch straight up (perpendicular to the way it's mounted in the rig), then somehow manage to create as much drag as a malfunctioned main parachute. As far as "the most drag", when was that test performed? I'm sure there's quite a number of newer PC's on the market since those tests were done. Let's see, one layer of 7000 lb. Ty-13, or 2 layers of 6000 lb. Ty-7 (most popular articulated harness construction), or one layer of 6000 Ty-7 and one layer of 4000lb. Ty-8, or even two layers of 4000 lb. Ty-8..... Seems the racer harness is the weakest of the bunch. Without going into too much detail about staged openings, and stuff, have you ever looked at a Racer center flap where the boxing stitches (where the side flaps are sewn to the center flap) use 1/4-1/3 of the width of the center flap on each side. That's the most boxing of any rig that I'm familiar with. Riggers in the field? Most of which don't care for having to change a reserve closing loop on a Racer, or having to hold the rig off the ground while compressing the pilot chute and pulling pull up cords/bodkins through the backpad and pinning the loops. It's awkward no matter how you slice it. Ease is a relative term. Surely you can do better than quoting a bunch of sales propaganda from a web page.......

Hey, Glad you were taken care of, always good when you are matched up with the right canopy for you. On the flip side, you not only went to a smaller canopy (completely different) but you also changed canopies. So really, you bought a canopy that wasn't right for you, or was a junk canopy from the start, and you got good customer service. nothing above and beyond there, every company should do that, I'm sure PD and Icarus would have done the same thing. Not to mention, do you honestly feel that someone with say 500, 600 or 700 jumps should be loading their x-braced canopy at 2.1-1, I personally don't know anyone with that few jumps who has any business under that canopy at that loading. Anyway glad you were taken care of but it sounds like you bought a lemon from the start and they didn't want that canopy out there....

Seriously, the CPC could be a fantastic thing, it's just a shame it's not about the people competing as much is it is the Jim Slaton show. It's BS to change the rules this late in the year. Evolution… that is laughable. You tell everyone this is the way it's going to be run and at the last min. you change it up... that's BS, I can't believe anyone would stick up for that.... Just look at what a joke the PST has become... Notice you don't see any of the big boys competing this year... Ok, a couple have showed up here and there, but for the most part they are in Europe or not competing, the PST is more or less the advanced CPC, it's really a joke... A couple years ago it was a different story, you had the PD Factory Team, Icarus Team, Team Xaos, you don't think those companies just dried up as far as swooping goes, they just probably see the PST as the joke it is and don't want to spend money in marketing at the events. Unfortunately the same thing is going to probably happen to the CPC if Jim is the only one running it. For Jim, the PST and CPC is just a vehicle to peddle his canopies, pretty smart really, think about it, if Jim wasn’t doing the CPC/PST stuff how many of his canopies do you think he would have sold? Not to mention I'm sure he pockets a good deal of cash. So really it's about the money, not about progressing the sport... Good luck at the Jim Championships!

Quote As a matter of fact, I recently saw a prototype canopy from another major parachute manufacture with sail material. This company did not design a new canopy but only added the sail material to one of their existing designs. Can you also believe this canopy did not have stabilizers, who would have thought? Quote who's that? Quote The JVX that is available for purchase from DAEDALUS CANOPIES USA is the same canopy used by our factory guys (AKA- Test Jumpers...). Other parachute companies sell a stock version of their high performance canopy and reserve the modified wing for their factory guys only. Quote Now you too can be a test jumper, for only about $3000!!!

None of which required a "I can fall out of my rig!!!" post. Hell, he even had the fix in his first post..... Big Red: seriously? If you don't have thick enough skin to cope with some anonymous internet trolling, you're going to be short lived in this sport. You can be partying with your pals one instant, then ten seconds (or less) later be in total shock and disbeleif that they're gone and those times are over. That's the reality we deal with, and the longer you're around, the more dead people you know. And there IS a difference between what I just said and posts that imply that you can't rely on your gear. Glad some people enjoy the humor

It's panic stricken reactionary posts like yours that get people's eyes rolling back in thier heads and bring the trolls out from under the bridges. That knife cuts both ways. Maybe try a search next time. That "one in a million" statement is a load of crap too. If you don't want it on your mind, DO something about it- don't let your legstraps get around your knees. Keep your gear maintained so you don't have to worry about a premie. Inform your local friends about the issue and let them know what you did to solve it. DON'T come on an internet forum where many new jumpers (and yet to be jumpers) come for information and start an "OHMYGAWDWER'REALLGONNADIE!!!!!!!!" thread. Many rigs in the '70's had butt straps, maybe you should take your own advice. You seem to have the "new is always better" attitude. How old is the plane you fly? Is there anything inherently unsafe about it because of it's age? My guess is no, not when used within it's design parameters. Guess what, same thing applies to skydiving gear! If you're worried about a premie, it IS a maintenance issue. If you feel confident that your rig is secure enough, pull your legstraps back up and/or have the strap added. Ever worry about a premie when you're head down? Gonna add a "cross your heart" strap too? Not until I'm done feeding.

You mean you might actually DIE while skydiving? I've got a real simple solution. Tie your shoelaces together before leaving the plane, it wont be possible to completely leave the rig. Saved my ass about a half-dozen times. There are so many ways to kill yourself while skydiving but its the most unrealistic ones that seem to get the most attention. Both recent incidents were regarding *tandem* passengers that, arguably, should have never been allowed to jump in the first place. If slipping legstraps are really a problem in your skydive, get them fixed! If you aren't qualified to recognize a maintenance issue perhaps you should reconsider your involvement in the sport. There are other "extreme" sports, like figure skating, you can take part in to impress the fella's.

http://www.geocities.com/deathtrap1320/

Not to mention that even if canopy found it's way out the sides of the bag, the only way it could inflate is if the locking stows came out, allowing the slider and bottom skin to spread. Until that happens, you have something similar to a diaper keeping the canopy closed.

How exactly is a speed bag going to help the canopy survive an opening from a less than ideal body position? The canopy is still going to be loaded wrong when it comes out of the bag. So you would be satisfied with a single drop test on each style of bag? There have been many drop tests done with standard safety stow/freestow pocket freebags at over 200 knots......... There's even video of them if you can sweet talk the right manufacturers. Seems Jump Shack can't come up with video of line dump or bag strip though because it happens "too fast"............

The problem is, is that there is only speculation that line dump or bag strip is a factor in these incidents.. I suspect that if you push hard enough for factual evidence, none will be found. John Sherman even said at PIA that line dump happens so fast that it can't be seen on video. That's a crock of BS, IMO. If video runs at 30 frames/sec, and it takes say, 5 frames for the bag to get to end of the lines, SOMEWHERE in that 5 frames you will see uncontrolled lines if there is line dump. In order for there to be bag strip, you would need one of two scenarios to happen: line dump, with the unstowed line having enough mass to pull one of the locking stows free, or the safety stow must break. Has anyone ever seen a broken safety stow? I'm not talking about broken rubber strands inside, I'm talking where the nylon sheath has broken completely. Think about this: Newton's first law of motion states that an object at rest tends to stay at rest. So a bridle starts to pull on the end of a freebag & the canopy inside the freebag wants to stay inside the container, correct? What's going to happen? the canopy will start to slide towards the closing flap, but the locking stow is keeping it shut. The locking stow will stretch while it's preventing the flap from opening all the way. When it stretches, it will get a TIGHTER grip on the lines that prevent it from getting pulled through the grommets. SO unless one of the bites gets pulled out, or the safety stow breaks, you're not going to strip the bag off the canopy.

just wondering, I just hear that some canopies are "tested" more then others, I was just wondering what "tested" was....

So what about the bigger sizes, do you know of any teams out there jumping the Crossfire2 189 or a Stiletto 190. How many jumps do you suppose they put on the canopies that no team will jump?

How many jumps do you think major canopy manufacturers(PD, Icarus, Precision, etc) put on a new design before release to the skydiving public?

Last years(05) vendor fees were a major point of contention for many of the manufacturers in attendance.May I suggest that LOWER prices for vendors be discussed at this meeting as well.Otherwise I predict you will have less than terrific representation from the manufacturers at this years boogie. Hey Lou! Already done! And the manufacturers apparently LOVE the discount, as they are reserving their spaces now. _______________________________________________ Attached are the vendor prices from the WFFC's vendor packet from 2004,2005, and 2006 No price change! Except for the tent prices went up! Snowwhite maybe the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing here. With the size that the WFFC used to be I could see that happening quite often, but now with the lower attendance I dont understand this. And in the WFFC's 15 year history I know that you would never mislead the public with false information. cough jet cough With such a small community that we are, word gets around pretty quick. I hope this is just a misunderstanding on all of this, but can we get some real answers?

Last years(05) vendor fees were a major point of contention for many of the manufacturers in attendance.May I suggest that LOWER prices for vendors be discussed at this meeting as well.Otherwise I predict you will have less than terrific representation from the manufacturers at this years boogie. Hey Lou! Already done! And the manufacturers apparently LOVE the discount, as they are reserving their spaces now. I hear a lot of the big manufacturers are thinking of not going, due to the high prices and low turnout (Sun Path, PD, Icarus, Precision, RWS...) Rick

The brain damage is showing with the writing style, maybe a helmet would be a good idea next time......or maybe not.........

Shlomo, what is your take on this: So, by removing the RSL LANYARD you're affecting the operation of the auxialiary parachute? If you think so, then releasing the snap shackle has the same effect, so that would be an alteration also. I'm curious, since you say that if the jumper doesn't want to use the RSL, they should just disconnect it. This would seem to contradict the whole reason for this thread in the first place, other than the poll. I think your advice about being an "Aviation Rigger" is good, but there are many things that are not black and white, and I think this is one of them.

So, by removing the RSL LANYARD you're affecting the operation of the auxialiary parachute? If you think so, then releasing the snap shackle has the same effect, so that would be an alteration also. Again, removing RSL LANYARD = OK, removing provisions for mounting RSL LANYARD (velcro, rings, etc.) = BAD Where did Shlomo go anyway? Starts up a shitstorm and then goes quiet when it starts getting good I'll bet he's brewing up something else

If you like to be respected please respect the others. Do not go personal because other have a different opinion then yours. We all have a ticket to learn. Safe Rigging !!! Maybe I should substitute "detail oriented"? In all honesty, I view this more as a "splitting hairs" issue than a saftey or legal issue. You can say that an RSL might save a jumper on the very next jump, but it's pure speculation to do so, as is saying that the RSL could kill them on the very next jump. Gear should be kept as simple as the jumper using it wishes, and if they choose to remove a part that is not permenantly attached, understanding the advantages and disadvantages of the choice, they should be allowed. You don't have to pack their rig in that configuration, but telling them that they are breaking the law is a bit extreme since the H/C is tested in BOTH configurations. Removing the lanyard is far different than removing the provisions that allow it to be installed.....

So the jist of this is that to remain "legal" in Shlomo's mind, you must jump your Javelin with the RSL installed, but not connected. Since cutting away with the RSL connected would remove the RSL from the H/C system, thereby breaking the law.

Edited for accuracy.