Watcher

This last weekend I spent flying a demo Velocity 120 (12 jumps, more to follow this weekend). And while i was getting a great landing on straight in approaches and almost getting more distance than my Nitron 120 coming out of a 360 front riser carve (amazing wings, really a dream to be under) the front riser attempts always left me way high as the pressure built up. On my Nitron I started at 1000 ft for my carve which put me out perfect, the velocity at 500 on a 180 left me atleast a hundred feet high. I am also haveing slight trouble as the riser pressure increases the canopy pulls away. The obvious answer some would say would be start lower, but i was wondering if there is a way to make it dive harder while turning less in the dive without it pulling away from me. Joe Bennet said the pressure would lessen as I approach a greater wingloading, at 1.5:1 its still alittle light but Ian Bobo said better to start with a Velocity the same size as you are jumping now to really appreciate the characteristics before i make my way down to the 96-103 range. Thanks for the advice. Jonathan D-24687

Well first let me define Elliptical as not square, therefor semi elliptical, tapers, fully elliptical all fall into the same category. Now as for student mains, SDC has used Safires and sabre2s, Skydive Monroe uses Safires. Some DZ just have older mantas that are simply made square and have not bothered to move away from them. PDs student canopies are slightly tapered, My DZ uses Omega's as the rental gear which is elliptical. For the most part its harder to find anything new made square anymore. Agian by my deffinition of what elliptical is. As for my a student in AFF or something is not useing stiletto's, because students tend to flare too high alot, so the mantas just slow down, but a stiletto goes back up, so flare at 20 ft, now you have a 30ft drop, but after about 10 jumps a jumper normally figures it out and that extra lift is very very beneficial. As for a line twist issue, thats another possibilty, line twist on a stiletto tends to drop altitude faster than a manta, but its also dependent on line type also. Spectra is more prone to not fly straight in line twist because the friction between the lines keeps one side down, but if the canopy is lined hma, the lines will slip through each other and the canopy flies straight. But i do think that the opening characteristics is more of a reason why "ellipticals" are not being used as opposed to squares in AFF but at a time when you have demostrated you can pull stable, then an "elliptical" be it a Sabre2, safire, fusion, nitron, cobalt can be landed easier as it provides more lift on a flare possibly saving you from impacting the ground. Just an opinion though. The Aerodynamics and first hand expirence make sense, but common practice is common practice. Jonathan

I like it on my Nitron 120, 170 jumps on it so far since decemeber. Lines still look brand new execpt the edge of the tacking on the finger traps on a few different lines have come undone. But the finger trap is so small i dont really see it as an issue. I am quite happy with my lines.

That picture looks alot like the picture of the Nitron Canopy (i bet it is) you can see it on the website http://www.aerodynamics.com Jonathan

well i was not refering to a Stiletto at 1.4:1 as a first canopy, But i do think that a Safire, Sabre2, or even a Stiletto Cobalt, or nitron loaded at 1.0-1.3:1 could easily be taught as a first canopy instead of giving someone loading at .7, .8 or .9 where the canopy is flying you and on a windy day you are going backwards. Now there is one thing i disagree with in your statement and that is the elliptical part. Ellipticals are more efficient wings, and are known to have alot more flare in general, so in essence i would think an elliptical is going to be more forgiving than a square because there is more potential energy to save your ass if your screw up. After flying them i do not think that anyone cannot fly them if you are taught on an elliptical then you wont have a problem with a canopy of such performance when you are off student status. Jonathan

The really cool thing is that I know Jamie and Brian also. Jamie was my coach a year ago in the tunnel, Brian was takeing the other 3 divers with us, David was working with another group, thats where i was able to aquire my suit. In fact i should see Jamie this weekend at the GSL meet. Thats quite a team you have there, i assume they are planning on competeing in open this year? Jonathan D-24687 Jonathan@gtinviscid.com

Thats kinda interesting i noticed a small change from the Mantas to the Safire 209, but did not see a big difference in canopy performance till i hit 1.4:1 on a nitron 135 at about a 100 jumps. Now i see a big difference from sub 120 and those above 120. But going from a 288 to 239 to 209 to a 189 (1 jump on each) to a 170 i saw little to no difference and even less down to a 150. Like i said i noticed a difference with the 135, but bought the 120. But i guess its the general feelings of the dropzone you jump at, the views they take and if they are going to tell you to jump something alittle big and not teach you to fly or give you something smaller and teach you how to fly a canopy, i find myself fortuanate to be at a dropzone where they answered all of my questions and provided instructions on canopy control. As a disclaimer i am considered an agressive pilot, i take canopy flight very seriously not as something to get me from the end of my skydive to the ground but to get every bit of performance out of the canopy and fly its to its limit with a nice surf. I am looking forward to the Velocity. If you are going to take the beast seriously on every single jump and never ever let your concentration stray then downsize, fly something higher loaded, but if there is even one jump you are not going to pay strict attention then dont. Jonathan D-24876 Jonathan@gtinviscid.net

I flew a Pro 170 for the first 100 jumps. It was a great canopy. Long long Sniveling openings, about 800 feet. If I roll the nose i would have been at 1100 foot snivel. Decent flare, much lower control range than a PD canopy, more similar to icarus, PA canopies. Nice turns, soft dependable opening, i kinda miss it. I was flying it at 1.1:1. Im flying at 1.6 to one now on my nitron. Great canopy to learn on. Pro pack or Psycho pack it. Jonathan Bartlett D-24876

Nitron 120 @ 1.5-1.7 I have been flucuateing by 15 lbs in the 165 range, last weekend i was at 155. I wear about 4 lbs of lead though. 270 Jumps. Been at this wingloading for 3 months now, which is 110 jumps worth. Jonathan D-24976 watcher1@cc.gatech.edu

Hehe, youll be fine, actually you would prob be fine on a 150. We have a nice flat landing area that is wide open. Ive seen the approach you do it will not be a problem. The Ellicptical does not turn that much faster, openings are not that much difference, besides you know how to pro pack now!! Its about time you got a new canopy :-) The difference in a 190 and 170 is very little now if you went from a 190 to a 135, then it might be cause of concern, but im biased i went from a 170 square to a 120 elliptical (and man did i catch shit for it, but they dont say anything now that i proved i actually can land the thing), and dropped the reserve from a 5 cell 210 to a pd 113R. Pull High, play around, then bring it in on a nice conservative 90 front riser carve, to a double front. Jonathan D-24876

And this is even though we know she could fly the 119 perfectly fine. 1.1:1 for the frst 100 jumps then if you are current (ie 30-40 jumps a month) and you a more of a natural flyer and interested in getting into the more high performance then push it up to 1.6:1 Ellipticals. They fly very nice, and the nitron has amazing ass saving bottom end Flare. Jonathan D-24876

High Modulus Aramid fiber This page has some pertinent (sp?) info: http://www.aerodynamics.com/Ground_Zero/PAGES/xaos21.htm Jonathan D-24876

Does this mean you can get a safire relined with HMA when its up for reline? I love them on my Nitron. Thanks Jonathan D-24876

Thats good to hear. The GT Sport Parachute club had a period where there was 1 active jumper, enough to barely hold our charter. But in the past 12 months, we are up to 10 active jumpers, recruiting every 3 months or so, the club is still young (in age of jumper, the clubs been there since the late 60's) but we have alot of support. 2 of us are working on our coach rateings to then go on to AFF to lower student cost for AFF from 1000 to 500. And weve formed a stong 4 way team thats planning on makeing 200-250 training jumps and about 10 hours of tunnel. My goal by next year is 40 active jumpers. Jonathan D-24876 http://www.gtinviscid.com

If you are doing RW, Mantis is alot more better position to be in, in that case you want to side slide with the l(assumeing a leftward side slide) you lead with the left arm like you were doing a counter clock wise turn, then at the same time with a left leg turn, result a quick side slide that keeps you very stable and there is no dipping of you body or any other thing that throws you out of balance. Jonathan D-24876

Well it depends on the Pilot chute cause i just got a new one, and i think my canopy (a Nitron 120 loaded at 1.6) prob opens in about 250-300 feet with a Psycho pack, but its not rough and it doesnt beat me, its just brisk and firm. For the most part its on heading within 45-90 degrees. Riser pressure is light but builds, keep it down and itll stay but let up out of the dive, itll have to level before you can take another front riser dive. In breaks its floaty, but drop those to full flight you are getting a huge speed increase and dropping alititude alot faster, i dont think it ground hungry like a seven cell, but a friend who was flying an 88 Nitron described it as ground hungry, but it has alot to do with wing loading, at 1.6 its gonna come down fast like just about any other canopy. Jonathan D-24876

If you know what size yoke (the collar size) and how long the Main Lift Webbing should be, you can really get exactly what you want. Example. 6'0'' Medium build guy ussually needs something around a 17 in to 18 in MLW, with a C (useing Sunpaths std) Yoke size. While a small 5'2 female is prob going to need something closer to a 14-15 in MLW with a A or B (typically A) yoke size. As long as the harness is appropiatly sized buying a used container can save you sooo much. My first rig was a Mirage G3 m05 with a 210 reserve, all that for 900 on Ebay, amazing deal. My Second rig (current) is a Javelin NJ with a PD 113R that i found on rec dot for 1250, Fits perfectly and agian saved me a tidy sum best used for jumping every single weekend. Plus if i get it alittle dirty im not AS pissed off. Add my New Nitron 120 for 900, and a Brand new Expert Cypres for 850 my rig cost me 3000, when new would have cost me 5000+, its worth it, thats like 100 jumps you now get. Plus the 900 i got for reselling my Mirage 6 months later. Jonathan Bartlett D-24876

Oh and i do not know who told you it has high riser pressure, they must of been confused. My canopy has very light riser pressure, i could concievably take a front riser at 9000ft and spiral it all the way to the ground if i wanted to (i like my life so i wont hehe) Jonathan -- Jonathan Bartlett watcher1@cc.gatech.edu D-24876

That was because it was a Nitro and not a Nitron, had Kevlar lines instead of the HMA lines. The 120 and 150 we had there that weekend flew amazingly well and did not have those problems you found on that 135 (i put about 10 jumps on that 135 and yes that one kinda sucked) but the 120 i have now flys amazing and does not ever spin up on me, granted ive never flown a Cobalt 120 so i cant compare it, but ive talked to people that flew Nitro's (the original) before they went to cross braced and said it could swoop the shit out of anything and id have to agree after putting 60 jumps on mine. And it swoops and swoops and swoops and even in slow flight swoops some more to give you no run/skid landings, not capable on a highly loaded safire :-( So thats a Vote for the Nitron, I have a Nitron 120 you can fly if you want Clay, ill fly the Safire 119 i have, let me know cause im gonna switch out the canopies soon. Jonathan -- Jonathan Bartlett watcher1@cc.gatech.edu D-24876

Im at 1.7:1 on my PD113R, I fly a 120 Nitron, and would not have a problem putting that reserve down in a 20 x 10 space with barking dogs and a kiddie pool, now if i was unconcious then maybe id have wished i had a larger reserve, but im acknowledgeing take that risk and placeing it as acceptable my choice though. The reserve itself has spanwise and chordwise reinforcement and have faith that its not going to blow up. Jonathan -- Jonathan Bartlett watcher1@cc.gatech.edu D-24876

We have formed a GaTech 4 way Team and were wondering where we can get creepers. Ive used some grey ones down at the DZ, and saw Skykats Casper Creepers, i was just wondering if there were more, who to order from, how much are they, etx. Thanks for your help. Jonathan Jonathan Bartlett watcher1@c.gatech.edu D-24876

Well as most of the Nitrons Post are mine, and not much has changed, ill go ahead and bring up what i love about this canopy. I have 60 jumps on my 120 loaded at 1.65:1. I love this canopy, it dives great and has a good recovery arc. It has snappy crisp turns but does not oversteer like some of the other canopies, its sensitive to harness input but not quite as radically as the stilletto. Surfs like a badass. With the HMA lines, even though they do not have cascades is still about 1/2 to 1/4 of what spectra and Vectran Lines are with cascades, they are also (granted no canopy has this many jumps yet) not projected to need a reline until about 800 jumps. And the amazing part is that its slow flight is amazing, its still generateing lift and not collapsing like some other canopies (i was on a safire 119 this last weekend and it did not like slow flight). This canopy i will say is quite amazing and its been in the market now for the past 8 years so you know theyve worked through any kinks in design and it wont be another CrossFire. Blue Skies Jonathan Jonathan Bartlett watcher1@cc.gatech.edu D-24876

I had to ride my Pd113R (1.75:1 loading) on a terminal opening when i misrouted my pullout bridle and the first jump with a pull out and it was one of the softest openings i ever had, course seeing the entire canopy right in front of you without haveing to swivel your head to see the whole thing is kinda an expirence. Oh right my point was, that pd133R was a very very soft opening, Jonathan

I need to get up there, Its the one Ga DZ i have not been to yet, its pretty bad when youve been to more Florida DZs than your home state. Lyle said it was really cool to.