Speer

I still think it is sad, regardless of WHAT family members you are referring to... being at times guilty of the same feelings, I have to honestly admit it was probably as much my fault. Nothing at all wrong with spending time at the DZ if your immediate family wants to mind you, but you would probably do your kids well if you and your extended family were to... aw never mind. Have a Merry Christmas Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

...Since all I have are a: '46 5T Speed Twin '69 Trident '72 Trident ...that I can't come along??? And me coming to the UK without my wife is a non-starter...in fact I wouldn't want to not have her come along. Of course she isn't keen on either bikes or skydiving, so the trip will have to be sufficiently long to enjoy all the facets, see the sights, and hunt down relatives... Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Sam, Would be a great experience... but some how I don't think it would fulfill the expectations of a visit to the UK that the better half has... ...besides that, the only question would be which one of my old Triumphs should I bring? Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Old Peculiar... Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Ed, I usually jump there mid week year round, but driving down from the LA area, I usually call the night before just to be sure. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

John, While I salute your desire to avoid impugning the reputation of Ted, I have to ask, at what cost? I'm fairly certain that Kevin's intent was not to "pile on", but was likely driven rather by a desire to reduce the carnage. I don't know Kevin, and didn't know Ted, but I'm no stranger to regret over inability to effect change in those I was responsible for. We humans are a queer species... especially those of us who seek out activities which place us in a position of increased risk. A certain amount of confidence is a requirement for success, however, like any strength, an excess can lead to tragedy. I see Kevin's post as an attempted wake up call to those who have tipped the scale of sensibility beyond their accumulated experience and ability to respond appropriately in a life threatening incident. For some, the price paid to learn humility is not severe, for others like Ted, the cost is ultimate. By the grace of God, I have survived my own idiotic decisions and missteps. While I would not wish to increase the suffering of Ted's loved ones, I'm afraid I come down on the side of Kevin in seeing that a blunt reminder that insolence can and will kill serves the greater good. I also believe it is a greater honor to honestly use Ted's mistake in pursuit of reduced injury and death, and I hope family and friends of Ted see this thread as such. There is a sadness which bites very deeply when a friend, loved one, or some one your are advising does something stupid which results in tragedy... and I suppose that changes those who experience it forever... others will never understand the mindset which develops in the aftermath of such preventable loss, where those who were involved are sincere enough to ask themselves where they went wrong, and what more could they have done to get through to the victim... I'm very sorry for those I was responsible for, yet failed to set an appropriate or effective example for... no doubt that's in part the source of my sig line... Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

They aren't cheap, but check out Adidas GSG-9 boots. They are a high top boot which is still fairly flexible, and light weight. They are lace up boots without the snag points many others have. I use them most of the time and find them to be excellent for the task. YMMV Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Jason, You should talk to your instructors, and then go into the gear store there and talk to Bonnie. She can help you set up some canopy demos appropriate your weight and skill. She can also help you choose a container that will give you the best flexibility in later downsizing. I know we used to have a Spectre 210 available for rental, and there are the Safires available in various sizes for you to try as your skill development allows. Are you currently jumping the Silhouette or Navigator? Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Once again, I'll be tied to the whippin' post and unable to attend... I know a great time will be had by all. Blue skys Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Patrick, I won't be able to make it that weekend, but there should be plenty of jumpers there. When you check in at manifest, let them know you're new to the DZ, and would appreciate being briefed on the DZ particulars. Check the aerial photos of the DZ, and ask about "outs". I think you'll find the DZ a very enjoyable place. The staff and regulars are friendly, views are exceptional, Super Twin Otter and Caravan, the LZ is fairly large, and the winds are almost always incredible (constant in both direction and strength). Have fun! Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Have you been to Skydive Santa Barbara at Lompoc? I stopped by there yesterday to check the place out (didn't make any jumps). I had heard good things about them, and from what I experienced yesterday, it appears to be true. You might want to check them out. I think they are even closer to you than Monterey. They have a Caravan, and a nice looking 206 with a roll up door. They were extremely friendly, and welcomed another up jumper to join the tandem they had going up. The upper landing area is a little tight for less experienced jumpers, but should be fine for most experienced jumpers. There is also an apparently huge LZ in the adjacent river bottom, but I didn't look at it. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

I agree Chuck, sorry we haven't yet met. Since I live so close to Perris and Elsinore, I'm sure we'll eventually hook up... As to seeing things differently; I don't think I'm any less sad than you to see Andy go, it just bothered the hell out of me to see things said that were untrue in my opinion, with the only motive I could figure to be to punish Buzz. I'd rather address the issue itself instead of piling up fertilizer to make the situation look worse than I believe it was. I don't know, it's just an honor thing with me, so I told Buzz I was unhappy with the turn of events and we talked about it face to face. I still go back to my experiences with him, and they just do not match up with the accusations I've seen here. And the descriptions of how he ran the DZ in the past didn't match what I knew either. I just chalked it up to anger that would dissipate, but it seemed to be feeding on itself and growing... As for talking with Andy... I saw him on Christmas Eve, and just didn't have the heart to ask him about the details. I made the trip down there just to tell him how appreciative I was of all the good things he has done for everybody, me included, and let him know I'd help him any way I could. He was focused on the future, and that's a good thing. I am looking forward to his new endeavor. My call of bullshit was a plea for people to stop and think before posting... to not let anger cause baseless accusations. Many of the assertions made initially have now been shown to be false. Buzz didn't _sell_ the DZ to Andy, he didn't steal the DZ back, it was a 2 year lease with option to renew, with provision for either party to refuse to extend... those are the apparent facts. If I've got that wrong, I'll be the first to apologize. Now it may be possible that Andy believed that the extension was guaranteed, it is possible Buzz hoodwinked Andy, maybe some believe Buzz had this planned all along,,,but I don't think so... those are my opinions to be sure, and I can readily accept others taking an opposing view. But running Otay into the ground??? Having a total disregard for the fun jumpers??? That's what I call Bullshit. What was at Otay when Buzz moved there from Brown? What kind of aircraft was being used? What facilities were there in the way of restrooms? Buzz brought in the portable buildings, built the permanent packing /gear room, brought in flush toilets, provided turbine aircraft (Otter and then added a Caravan as needed) in addition to the 206, and paved the runway. Don't think there is anyone out there who can argue about the growth of Otay as just described, prior to Andy taking it over. None of this, of course, would excuse crooked business practices, but then I've seen no "Smoke", let alone "Fire" in that regard. More subjective are the claims that Buzz was abusive or ambivalent about fun jumpers and staff. I saw nothing (I realize that that doesn't mean it never happened) that supports that opinion. I remember him allowing the Otter to fly with as little as 6 fun jumpers... no tandems... doesn't seem to fit the picture painted does it? I was never bumped or made to wait for slots that I didn't deserve to wait for. If I was manifested, I got on the load, I was never asked to give up my slot, although I have on occasion volunteered my slot to make room for AFF students. I understand some staff chafed under rules that Buzz set in place... but can you name any organization that doesn't? It was his business, his vision, his risks to take... so he gets to call the shots. He certainly received lots of grief for his AAD requirement... but gee, didn't he also buy a bunch of AADs and allow FUN JUMPERS to buy them on payment plan so they could meet his requirement without losing the opportunity to jump? Obviously, those who found that requirement too onerous went elsewhere, but he was still savaged for his actions. His actions certainly struck me as someone who had high regard for fun jumpers...YMMV. As I said previously, I have had an excellent relationship with BOTH these men. I'm greatly saddened by the turn of events and the parting of their ways... but I know nothing that makes me feel justified in shunning one for the other, let alone publicly castigating one of them. Maybe I'm naive, but I plan on continuing to jump at Otay, not in spite of Buzz, but partially because of him... I also hope to soon be jumping at Andy's new DZ also. If my position pisses you off, I'm sorry, but I gave up long ago trying to do what pleases others if it comprimises my integrity. If anyone wants to take Buzz to task for the outcome of the lease with Andy, do it on the merits of that action... no need to bear false witness. (edited to clarify exhortation as not directed at any one individual...) Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

With my schedule it is difficult to make the trip down there for weekend jumping, so I usually am there during midweek... To the claims that Buzz ran the DZ into the ground, I call Bullshit! When Buzz took over the operation at Otay there was virtually nothing there! He brought in the buildings and started to provide facilities to serve jumpers on a permanent basis. He had flush toilets on location till a disgruntled member of the ultralight group pulled some strings at City Hall to get the skydiving operation out. Intervention by Buzz (who holds the lease on the property) paved the way for Andy to bring the flush toilets back. As a part of the military contract (before Andy leased the DZ) Buzz was able to pave the dirt runway. Similarly, I never saw any resemblance to the "Tandem Mill" horror that has been spoken of by others here. Granted, most of my jumps have occurred during the week, but I never saw anyone bumped or denied slots to make way for walk up tandems. Like anyplace with integrity, if you were manifested first, you got on the load. If you're complaining because there are tandems on most of the loads... well you're right. For me, that has been a good thing as it helped to ensure I could usually get in some jumps during the week, so what's the beef? There is no argument from me that Andy provided the drive, vision, and execution to make the DZ the fantastic place it is now, but the claims made about Buzz destoying the place are dishonest and have cheapened the credibility of those who justifyably wish to support Andy. I consider Andy a FRIEND, and I am heartbroken to see him go! Andy has treated me extremely well, but that is no surprize as that is how he treats everyone! I think it legitimate for jumpers to worry about what is going to happen to the DZ now because the direction with Andy in charge was clear and reassuring, but I don't believe that Buzz is going to ruin the jumper experience there! He certainly improved it significantly prior to Andy taking over... Based on what I know, I can only conclude that the accusations being made here are designed to punish Buzz, based on things that I believe to be untrue. Did Buzz screw Andy? ...maybe, since I never read the contract, it_is_possible. If you want to take jumpers away from Otay, help Andy build a DZ that will pull them in... 'cause Andy certainly knows how to build a DZ! Still see no reason for what I believe to be untruths being spread here... Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

He IS the real deal... that part I agree with whole heartedly! Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Well, I've heard the exact opposite from people in the know at SSD. I was told that Andy did not receive any compensation for his investments. Maybe Andy or Buzz could jump on here and tell their side of the story to clear things up once and for all. I hope Andy was taken care of but from what people are telling me, it sounds as though Buzz did nothing of the sort. I'd have to ask who you mean by people in the know (rhetorical question, please don't answer)... there are a some people who are willing to let emotion direct their actions, and I believe in this case making accusations based on anger, not evidence. There are many people justifiably upset over the departure of Andy, and to make things clear, I am one of them. I don't know anyone who wants to see Andy leave, but being dissappointed about an undesirable business outcome doesn't justify character assassination. I'm thinking that caution is in order when we have someone who loudly proclaimed at the DZ "We're gonna get Buzz for this..." The two year lease Andy had on the DZ expired at the end of December, and negotiations to extend it failed... I wish Buzz would have been willing to take less return from Andy... I wish Andy could have given Buzz a little more... I wish things would stay the same as they were... but none of that is going to happen apparently... so we move forward. The fact that I don't hate Buzz, based on what I know, doesn't cheapen my support for Andy or my desire to help him with a new DZ. I agree with all the accolades accorded Andy (and then some), but I also believe Buzz to be an honorable man. If the actions Buzz took are unpalatable to you, take your business elsewhere. Don't cheapen yourself with attacks that are based on innuendo, bitterness, or rumor(this statement, not aimed at Untamed DOG). Again, with no intentions of putting words in his mouth, I don't think it likely that Andy would be supportive of the vitriolic accusations that have been made. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Like most who frequent SSD, I am saddened by the departure of Andy. He is a stellar guy that did accomplish great things at SSD. I have made it clear to him that I will gladly help him in any way I can when he starts his own DZ. He obviously has great vision, and sets high standards for DZ operation, so that should serve him well building a new DZ. I have dealt with both Andy, and Buzz over the last several years. I have found them both to be upright men who appeared to me to be following their conscience when making decisions. I haven't spent large amounts of time with either of them, but they both have earned my trust and confidence. I told Buzz that I felt like my parents had just announced they were getting a divorce... maybe not a fair analogy, but it describes my feelings over this. I don't see it the way many of those who have expressed their opinion here do (some who are apparently doing so without any knowledge of the circumstances beyond what has been posted to this site...), and I see no moral imperative to take sides. Rather, a significant amount of the comments here border on slander, based on assumptions and hearsay... Buzz has taken a lot of abuse over the years in the aftermath of the AAD requirement that so infuriated many... is this more of the same? I am not privy to the dialogue that transpired between these two during the original, or the recent negotiations to extend the lease... but I do understand that Buzz paid for half the cost on the DZ improvements as they were installed, and is to pay Andy for the other half as part of the lease agreement in the event it wasn't extended. I don't see how trying to hurt Buzz will honor Andy, no matter how much I'd like to see Andy stay, nor will I use Andys departure as an excuse to savage Buzz for something that was agreed upon by both parties... Knowing the class and integrity of Andy, I'm having a hard time believing he would relish the demise of the DZ he grew... YMMV Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

You could have the PRK procedure instead... no flap. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Not an uncommon sight to have helos hovering just off the deck on the hillsides surrounding Skydive San Diego... an interesting sight whether in freefall or under canopy. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

I agree whole-heartedly with Cindy that negative comments are not beneficial, especially in the absence of any compelling reason to do so... I have had nothing in my dealings with either Buzz or Andy to cause me to have anything but respect for them. I have no evidence that there was any problem in their dealings with each other, and I choose to honor each of them till further info on the operational change at Otay is known. I have not yet had the opportunity to talk to either of them, so in the meantime, I'll discount the mudslinging that is occurring here as a predictable fear of change. Buzz took over Otay and made some significant improvements, Andy followed with the stunning upgrades we've seen in the last couple years. This DZ has overcome alot in the last three plus years... I hope it will continue to blossom, with Andy, Buzz, and all the great staff there continuing to prosper. My heart felt appreciation goes out to everyone there, staff and jumpers alike, who have made it the great place that I trust it will remain. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Good for you! A very mature and honest approach... You're behaviour is the only evidence I have of your parents, and it would seem to indicate that they have done a good job raising you. Love Thailand, it's a wonderful country, with a lot of wonderful and happy people. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

The close proximity to the ocean is also part of the trouble... high cost as you pointed out, and more chance for wind issues... I would like to visit both Monterey, as well as Lompoc, which is also pretty close to the ocean. We are reasonably close to the ocean at Skydive San Diego, at least we get a pretty good view on the ride up and at altitude... especially at sunset. The wind consistency at San Diego is fantastic. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Kirrz, Worrying about their children is what parents do. It's natural, and almost universal. Take heart in the fact that it's a demonstration that they love you. Two of my four children have jumped with me. I understand that there are risks associated with skydiving, and even I have some concerns about my children jumping. You can bet I took pains to carefully choose where they would jump. I also have different comfort levels regarding which of my children jump! Your parents likely know nothing about skydiving, so it's no surprise they would be frightened. 20 years after her passing, I can still hear my mom say "Parachutes, guns, and motorcycles!... I don't know what's wrong with you!" She'd apologize to my wife, assuring her that she never raised me to have a death wish, and couldn't understand how I could volunteer for hazardous situations... Unfortunately, I was never very diplomatic about it, and didn't take the opportunity to explain my motivations to my parents, or explain what I was doing to try to improve the odds for my successful survival. In retrospect, that was a mistake on more than one level. This just may be a great opportunity for you to bridge the gap between the Indian and "Western" cultures. If you make it your goal to educate them not only on how you mitigate the obvious risks, but on the value it adds to your life in practical terms... you just may find that the exercise brings you closer to your parents. Good luck. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Sorry to hear of your misfortune Stephen. You are absolutely right that there is a lot at risk. It makes sense to put a lot of thoughtful consideration into making a decision regarding vision surgery. And while contacts, or glasses aren't that bad, there are some occupations (or hobbies for that matter ) where they can be worse than just a nuisance. Sometimes, glasses or contacts are awful, hazardous even. I had good reason to pursue vision correction surgery to help me perform, and nudge the odds a little more in my favor. I had a good experience with PRK, so tend to paint it favorably, others do the same with LASIK, LASEK etc... but no one should take an ambivalent attitude towards surgery! I hope no one interprets my comments as a statement that vision correction surgery is "no big deal". It is best to get informed, and then manage risk... not alot different than making decisions about skydiving. Hopefully, those who read this thread will be sufficiently warned to do their homework. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Allen, Shouldn't feed the trolls... even if they do jump... Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

Yes it did help, thanks Matt. I was just interested in seeing (no pun intended) what the latest info was. I had some discomfort the first day (lost the protective soft contact as soon as I left the clinic apparently) and they forgot to give me the numbing drops to use... The second eye went much better. I was made to wait 3 months between eye procedures to establish healing results. My downtime was minimal, only a few days. I did wear glasses with one lens removed during the 3 months between procedures. The surface layer removed in PRK actually heals in just a few days according to the surgeon I saw. My perception was that recovery was much quicker with the PRK procedure, AFTER a couple days of mild discomfort that LASIK patients do not have to endure. I have had absolutely no side effects or negative experiences with the PRK, and will gladly face the mild discomfort again. I have had some recurrence of the astigmatism, and may have a touch up done in the future, thus my interest. After talking with you and others, I certainly would not be afraid of combining LASIK and skydiving, but it still appears that PRK may have an edge. Yes, free is good! I also had a "rich Uncle" pay for mine after a "trauma induced reduction in visual acuity"... in other words, don't lead with your face! Thanks again for the response. Good luck with the impending retirement, and blue skies. Russ Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?