MonsterMo

Is this likely to be resolved for replacement containers in production? I added Skyhook as an option to the replacement for my 2014 container which I've been without since Jan. Now this...

Is one allowed to disagree with the opinion of the manufacturer I've opened a can of worms. The response to my email. "...all of the canopies* you've inquired about will work in SN xxxx except the Triathlon 175- even in ZPX material, the pack volume is too large for the main pack tray and can cause the main closing flaps to warp. The I-33 is designed to be an optimal fit for both the standard pack and ZPX Pilot 140/150. The ZPX material is smaller than Aerodyne's standard material but even the standard material used packs slightly larger than other canopies of the same type and size..." *Pilot 150, Pilot 140, Tri 150 ZP, Nano 160. As mentioned, rigger thinks the Tri 175 ZPX is loose. I agree. Manufacturer agree Triathlon 150 ZP is a good fit, but not a 175 ZPX. There is the 160 between the 150 and 175 Tri, but let's call that half a size. Isn't the consensus that ZPX packs between one to two (full) sized smaller? Then again, I'm in rainy England and the canopy was a good fit in my 135 Vortex and I don't consider myself a great packer! c'est la vie... Ash

That's fair enough - ask the question enough times and you'll get the answer you want :) This is more me querying the published figures. My rigger and I have both packed it and we both think the Triathlon 175 ZPX is on the looser end. Theoretically, a Pilot 150 ZPX should be looser still. Ash

I assume you're working on the assumption (hehe) that I haven't got in touch with Velocity. It's the weekend, I'm not expecting a response till Monday at the earliest. I was bored and I'm not shy, so thought I'd ask here to see if anyone's successfully used that combo. Ash

Yes, but the Triathlon 175 ZPX I have in there at the moment is a size up and my rigger seems to think it's a little loose. According to Aerodyne, the ZP Pilot 150 is 8 cu in smaller than a ZP 175 Tri - I'd expect it to scale similarly lower for ZPX meaning an even looser fit. Doesn't seem dangerously loose though. Bear in mind, the fact that we're using a Vortex 135 d-bag (because of window, see further...) may have some influence. The Infinity came with a non-standard Rigging Innovations d-bag, without a window in the bridle. I may try the RI d-bag in conjunction with the container to see if it's a better fit. Mixing and matching components isn't the best idea I suppose... I've attached a pic. Reserve is a Nano 160. Ash

Does anyone have real world experience in packing a Pilot 150 ZPX into an Infinity I33? According to the manufacturer (http://www.velocityrigs.com/media/site/canopy-compatibility-chart.pdf), Pilot 140 and 150 canopies in either ZP or ZPX are acceptable. I find this hard to believe, as Aerodyne quote a 17% reduction in bulk. A Triathlon 150 (ZP) is also listed as acceptable, but my Triathlon 175 ZPX seems a tiny bit on the loose side. Can't imagine a Pilot 150 ZPX working too well. Already have the Pilot - was intending to downsize to that in my "old" container. I'm currently borrowing a friend's 2004 I33 whilst waiting for my Vortex to be replaced. I'm also working on the presumption that the PDF I linked to will also be relevant to 'my' older Infinity, or has the sizing changed? Ash

'Off the record' then, are there any ETAs on replacement containers? I think in the region of 'up to 20 weeks' was being speculated by one of the dealers over here... Ash

Yes, watching with interest. Thing is, these rings have allegedly been in use for a while (at least since 2013) without incident. I can confirm the DSF hardware is also used for the hip and chest rings on my container. Wonder when they'll have an update, would be nice to know where we stand. I'm already looking at a contingency plan / alternate container. Yes it's cold, but the skies are calling... Ash

Is the below what you refer to? http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Product%20Service%20Bulletins/09207.pdf Ash

Have a bit of an odd one that I want to offload in the next month or so... Triathlon 175 (regular, not CRW / hybrid) - with ZPX fabric (yeah, I was surprised as well, but a few emails with the serial no. exchanged with AR confirmed it). Never come across another ZPX Triathlon to gauge values. Not the most popular canopy and isn't quite perfect - one small piece of ripstop (can of worms...) placed by my rigger over a tiny pinhole that came FOC from the previous owner and more recently, a patch where I had noticed some stitching had come unravelled. On the other hand, Dec '09, between 250 - 300 jumps and at least that many left on the lineset - Recently looked over by a rigger. Seems to be in very good fettle bar the aforementioned issues. Also, fits rather well in my container cut for a 135. What would such a canopy command on the used market? Ash

Yes, I believe Jack is based at Dunks these days. I'm not sure if some BCPA discount or similar was applied, but £1350 is what I paid / was invoiced; I recall them 'officially' advertising it at the time for upwards of £1500. I was at a BCPA event / piss up at Peterlee and was measured by Jack's business associate at the time. Got the container 6/7 weeks later. If you're interested, best to get in touch with Jack yourself and enquire. Tell them Ash sent you. Like I said, your mileage may vary - I'm not affiliated with XDream. Just be ware a service bulletin was released yesterday concerning the stainless steel hardware; affected rigs (mine included) are currently grounded... Ash

Why would you get angry? I can see where he's coming from. I presume the other container (s)he's talking about is the SWS Fire - non TSOd, but seems to work quite well. This is the second SB issued since September in the Vortex. I too bought a new Vortex dom Apr / May 2014.Was the cheapest TSOd container I could buy (£1350 with all options, Skyhook wasn't offered until a few months later). Delivery times were really good at ~6 weeks. My rig wasn't affected by the previous SB (older RSL system attached to the left riser), but it did cause a bit of an over-reaction at my home DZ as I'm one of the few people that jumps a Vortex. Ironically, I was considering going out to the Algarve for new year's - kinda glad I didn't now. Wouldn't have been too happy with a grounded rig. What I will say is since June '14 I've put around 140 jumps on mine and all seems well. Does have the DSF hardware - it is currently with my rigger waiting to be picked up following a reserve repack. Guess I'll hold out till this is updated Look forward to hearing about any developments. Ash

I suppose it's technically a Vortex 3, with the latest logos on the side panels. All options bar Skyhook (wasn't made available as an option until a couple of months after I put my order in - made do with the old school RSL) and custom embroidery. XDream Sports. I know they advertise it higher today than what I paid last year, but it was a similar situation 18 months ago (although slightly less of a difference). And I got that price without any haggling! YMMV. Cypres was procured from a dealer in Germany - you could pick one up mid 2015 ago from UK dealers for around £850. Not sure if that's still the case. It pays to shop around / ask :) Ash

FWIW, I put together a rig, all brand new (apart from the Main - Dec '09 with 125 jumps at the time) and made to measure for under £4100 Vortex £1,350.00 Nano 160 £995.00 Triathlon 175 ZPX £850.00 (used!) Cypres 2 £885.00 Apart from the main, it's all April / May 2014 prices. Yes, the Vector's 'better' and more expensive and the Sabre 2 will be worth more, but that doesn't seem like terrific value at £4.5k for a four year old rig, albeit with low jumps numbers... Ash

UK based brand. Had an FS (RW as you folk call it) suit made circa March 2013. My experience: 1) Lead times are pretty good 2) Build quality leaves much to be desired. My suit started to fall apart after around 120 jumps. Now on ~160 jumps and literally has holes in it. Will be lucky if it lasts till the end of the 2016 season. And I'm not a particularly heavy user (no team training, not much bigway). 3) Friend ordered one, measured by the guy who runs the company ended up with a suit that didn't fit...did get refunded. Fit on mine is okay, but could be better. 4) Booties caused me (and still do, on occasion) a multitude of problems. Had to duct tape them for my FS1 dive! Had a tack put in by a seamstress on both booties which fixed the issue more or less... Still dodgy on occasion. Had a few issues in The Algarve in November with one of them popping off - thankfully I can now fly to compensate for only one functioning bootie. One of the riggers did a quick fix. No problems since. But I've always been paranoid and double / triple check them in the door. 5) Other friends have mentioned quality is an issue. Based on my experience, I wouldn't buy another one new. I would consider CHEAP second hand one in good condition to tide me over for a season... Ash

Young and small framed indeed. I was (still am) the lightest person my instructor has jumped with at 5'3" and 122 lbs without gear. I have noticed Mirage at least tend to have some sizes in "short" versions ie M2 and M2S, aimed at smaller jumpers. You wouldn't happen to know if there is indeed a significant difference in fit/comfort between such containers? I know Mirage say so, but wondered if anyone had some first hand experience. If I do go the Mirage route, it might be better to wait a while and get an M2S built to order as opposed to jump on a stock M2. Thanks Ash :)

This has turned into quite an interesting discussion with lots of good information and suggestions. Lee, with regards to why the G4 as opposed to the G3? Simply because Mirage has a stock G4 M2 that should fit my small frame (need to confirm with them) and I quite like the look of the container. However, I was considering ordering a custom M2S if the dealer would let me do so at the same price he was offering the stock container. If this is an option, do you suggest the G3 over the G4? I'm still considering the Infinity, even the SWS for that matter (although the waiting time is the highest of the three and this whole malarkey with the lack of TSO). Bearing in mind that I'm new to the sport and am not knowledgeable as most (any?) of you, apart from PDF, Basik (I think they have a TSO) and TSE, are there any other non-US rigs out there that are TSO'd? I agree with Jerry's earlier sentiments of a self-certifying system. If only it could be as simple as implementing a new international standard that equipment must be made to. The whole TSO system seems like a barrier to entry as far as our Ukrainian friends are concerned. Hope you've all had a good Christmas. Look forward to hearing back! Ash :)

Hi Jerry, I am indeed aware that they offer RAX, or DRD as they call it, and that you and Kelly of VSE were central to the development of the original system. With regards to that aspect of things however, I think I'd stick with a simple RSL. Whilst I'm not someone who'd order a system without an RSL, I'm also one who'd always pull the left handle regardless. My main concern about RAX (in this country anyway), is the unfamiliarity of the system (and the Fire container for that matter) to riggers over here. In this case, I'd probably err on the side of caution and stick to the KISS principle. By no means is that to be misinterpreted as I don't trust RAX. I think it's an excellent alternative to the Skyhook. Hi Sparky, I was looking at the Mirage G4 M2 in conjunction with an Optimum 160, which should be fine with a Storm 170 and any ZP 150 and 135 according to the Mirage sizing chart, although I was advised a 120 *may* work as well. Not that it'd be a dealbreaker if it didn't, but I know someone with a Crossfire 120 in an M2. Presuming the rules are different to those of the USPA down there? How about Australia? Thanks for all the help so far. Ash :)

I'll be buying a new container in the new year and had initially narrowed it down to either a Mirage G4 or an Infinity, leaning towards the former. However, one of my former instructors told me to maybe give the SWS Fire some consideration. This will be my first container and I'm looking for something to take a low bulk / 7 cell 170, with scope to eventually downsize to a 135 / 120 and a 160 reserve (before anyone says anything, I'm 5'3", weigh less than 150 lbs out the door and have consulted with my instructors and CCI). Whilst the price of the SWS Fire is appealing, it isn't TSO'd. Whilst I know this isn't an issue in the UK or if I visit the US, could anyone shed some light on Europe? I've been in touch with an old instructor of mine in Spain who just said he didn't recommend a non TSO'd rig, but nothing about the legislation per se. I plan on visiting Madrid, Seville and Algarve next year. Some things to consider: My landings whilst fairly accurate are still sometimes grassy (not been particularly current as of late) and that I plan on doing in the region of 80 - 100 jumps from 2014. The way I see it, the container should last me at least five years on the probable assumption I won't want to be on anything smaller than a 135 before then. I've even been told the containers I'm looking at might be OK with a 120. I'm still leaning towards the Mirage as I've been offered an excellent deal on a new stock container, but then again, the SWS Fire is a good £600 cheaper - more money for coaching and jump tickets. Any help appreciated and happy holidays! Ash

Hi Dries, For what it's worth, I'm in a similar situation to yourself. I'm tiny at 5'3" and 55 kilos. I used a Navigator 200 for the majority of my student status, 27 jumps or so and then "downsized" to a Sabre 190. The last jump I did on the Sabre last weekend was in relatively high winds, compounded by the fact that my CCI advised me to pull at 5k instead of 4k as it had been nearly a month since I'd jumped. My canopy ride was interesting to say the least - I was holding into wind the whole duration and flying backwards . Anyway, I landed off but safely. For my first rig, I've been advised to put something together with a 170 main and at least a 160 reserve, although I was told I wouldn't need many (~50 or so) jumps before being able to jump a 150. The only problem is finding used gear that will take those canopies and fit my very petite frame. Might have to go with a new container. Ash :)

I was advised that you'd be able to downsize two canopy sizes when I got in touch with a dealer about ordering a new Infinity. Also, going by this: http://www.chutingstar.com/media/forms/InfinityFAQandInformation.pdf , a 150 should work fine, although the closing pin tension may have to be checked. "10. How does sizing work for Infinity? Whatever main you list on the order form is what the container will be sized tight for and able to downsize two sizes from there. Please check your pin tension if you downsize two sizes. " Ash

Yeah, I thought as much I'll go an try and speak to a rigger at my DZ as well. Ash

Thanks for the replies so far! I did actually call one of the dealers (well, the biggest dealer) over here who suggested that resizing a container could end up coming to more than a new container, once the cost of the used container was taken into consideration...then again, I will be asking round for second opinions. And thanks Deci, I've read that a few times. It looks like I come into the 20% category. However, after finding this: http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf, it looks like a new container could last me at least 5 years, maybe a bit more. Ash

Hi, I'm Ash and I'm in the UK. I started my AFF in Spain and continued over here and passed my Level 7 last week. I've started my consolidation jumps and have to do eight more (including some canopy handling exercises, which I've already been practising) and my hop 'n pop to qualify for my A licence. Following my Level 7, I started talking to my instructor about getting my first rig. He suggested starting off with a 170 main and a similar sized reserve (I'm tiny, at 5'3" and weigh 125 lbs, excluding gear). I've been jumping a PD200 for most of my AFF. He did say that due to my stature, I may have to go with a new container made to measure that'd be capable of holding a 170 main. Looks like he was right, as the only used rigs / containers that seem to be going for people around my height, seem to be sold by ~5'5" girls, but designed for 135 mains and 120 reserves. Would there be a way round this? I'd rather get a used container if possible as I'm not sure if buying new, there'd be much demand for something that would suit a minimum of a 135 (presuming I get a new container designed for a 150 like my instructor said, so it'd hold a size +/- 1) for a small person when it was time to sell on. Or am I thinking about this the wrong way and assuming that I'll want to go smaller than a 135 sooner than I'd think (ie, I'd like a brand new container to last me at least 5 years, presuming at least 60 jumps a year, maybe more)? I plan on using a used main and reserve, with a new AAD. The container depends on the factors above. If I was able to find a used container that would hold a 170 main / 160 reserve and was a good fit, I'd jump on it (no pun intended), but it might be easier said than done. Blue skies! Ash