EatSleepFly

No worries. 10 knots is the max tailwind component limitation for pretty much all turbojets, big and small (I've read that a couple Airbus models might be 15)- making landing with anything over that illegal. The ability to circle and land north depends on the airplane- it's much safer and more feasible in a big turboprop with slow approach speeds and a tighter turning radius. Different story in a swept wing jet with higher approach speeds and thus larger turning radius. While it is technically doable in some jets that can slow way down safely, it's just not really a great idea in my opinion. There are a very few locals/regulars that do it in jets, but to my knowledge, most do not. We as a company, do not, despite being fairly frequent visitors. It's simply not worth the risk- especially with Rifle- a much better airport in almost every respect (approaches, runway, parking, FBO services, prices)- only a 90 minute drive away. I've heard idiots holding for almost that long hoping to get in to Aspen. I think most of us approach Aspen trips almost planning on not getting in. If we happen to, great, but it's because everything was just right to do it safely. If there are any red flags, we say screw it and divert. I have my theories on what led up to this Challenger crash, but I'd prefer to keep them to myself. I doubt the investigation will take too long anyways. Sorry if I came across a little snarky in my first response.

Clearly you haven't been there in a "fast plane." It is sketchy on anything but a rare calm, cool and clear day and even then it demands utmost respect. Anyone who thinks that airport is no big deal doesn't know what they don't know. Anyway- F that airport. Been going there semi-regularly for years and we train for it in the sim every six months. I absolutely hate it (as does just about everyone else who has to go there). Nothing makes me happier than telling the passengers, "sorry, can't get into Aspen today, we'll arrange transportation for you from Rifle." Personal hatred of the airport aside, landing with anything more than a 10 knot tailwind component is illegal in just about every jet out there, and doing it at Aspen is just stupid. 20+ knots is absurd, abject stupidity, especially since it was their second attempt in the same winds. Circling to 33 is not a very desirable option in most jets and not an option at all for many types/operators. Bottom line- they should never have even made a first attempt- there is nothing and no one that important in Aspen. If there's even a sliver of doubt, it's better to bag it and go to Rifle- much safer and not that bad of a drive for the passengers. Oh, and spin it all you want, but your thread title is extremely lame.

Very nice! Thanks for sharing- I really enjoyed last year's too and was wondering if there would be a 2013 version...

Yep...

Cheers! I was surprised that I actually had it.

^^^ this was awesome to watch!!!!! Thanks for posting that, it was a great "prank"

Right off the top of my head (actually in my pocket right now) I have a beat up old Texas Instruments calculater that I use nearly every day. About 25 years old, works great. I've seen many 30 year old cars with original radios that work fine. All this is meaningless, as is your particular arguement. Not to mention your calculator and car radio didn't cost 1300 frickin' bucks. Then don't jump a fuckin Cypres- I wouldn't jump a Vigil if it were free. To each their own. What exactly is your point?

Pranks are a no-go in aviation? Huh? Not anywhere I've ever worked! I've seen and heard about some absolutely awesome ones- probably more than I've seen/heard of in skydiving. I guess the difference is I work with other professionals who know the limits of what is safe and what's not. To that end, if an AFF instructor (who is obviously trained to do it safely) dumped me out as a prank, I'd probably think it was pretty funny. Anyone else, not so much... although I don't think I'd have too much heartburn over it. Maybe just a discussion over a beer as to why it isn't such a good idea.

You probably already have... Plenty of Otters, Casas, Be-99's and even Caravans have flown in commercial airline service.

Correct. If I had to guess, this is probably targeted towards civilian defense contractors operating "civilian" airplanes- not sport skydiving. On most "normal" aircraft, what you'd be exiting out of is the baggage compartment (which is also accessible from the cabin). It'd make a hell of a specialty aircraft at a boogie though!

I fly corporate/private jets for a living, so naturally have flown a decent amount of "well known" people. A few months back, we had an older couple on board who were friends of friends of our owners or something. At one point I was in the back getting a drink and a snack and stretching and the gentlemen asked if he could come up and chat with us for awhile. Sure, I said. It was immediately obvious that he had some kind of aviation background but wasn't a pilot. After some prodding, we found out that he was an aeronautical engineer by education, a backseater in various fighters during the early parts of the Vietnam war before eventually getting tapped to work in the Apollo program, which he did for the remainder of it's duration. After dropping that on us, he casually says he's going to go back and teach his old lady to play strip poker for the remainder of the flight. Would have absolutely loved the chance to buy him some beers and hear some stories.

You can't possibly be surprised... Good luck with that. This guy is one of the biggest internet know-it-all's I've seen in 10+ years of lurking online forums. I'd bet one of my rigs that he doesn't even jump.

I really hate posting here, but here is my $.02 as a pilot and a jumper but not a jump pilot. Don't do it. If you want to jump, find a flying job to fund it until you can get a coach/instructional rating, fly camera, etc. so that you no longer have to pay for every jump. Then you get the best of both worlds. Granted, you won't be able to jump EVERY day, but if you fly for a dropzone, you'll probably be jumping even less. By the way, if you have 2700 hours, quit being obtuse. You know full well that there are other flying jobs besides "flying a bus full of pissed off passengers." Not that I blame you, I wouldn't and don't, but that is enough hours to open up a few other doors aside from the regionals and flight instructing. Your enthusiasm is great, but I think it could be channeled more constructively to reach your goal of jumping as much as possible while still working as a pilot. Either way, this advice is worth only what you paid for it, so good luck!

Congrats John! There were a lot of dark and stormy times when I was sure glad to be talking you guys. From a former "Amflight" pilot, thank you for your hard work and dedication, and enjoy retirement!

Grew up there and looks like I might be back next week, Mon-Fri. Are any of the DZ's there open on weekdays for fun jumpers? I don't care if it's just a hop & pop and I'm all about Cessna DZ's.

Very well said, Dave. I, too, feel very honored and privileged to have known/jumped with Cliff for the short couple of years that I did. I was on his last load, but got out lower. He was sitting by the door, so my last memory of him was his big grin as I left and watched them fly away. Cliff was a class act and will be greatly missed. What a sad and humbling weekend. BSBD

Pilot. Fly for the owners of an MLB team and a Fortune 200 company. I guess there are worse jobs. My dad's cousin is a professor at UC Davis (I think).

Funny/angry ones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QIk-d8XpRk&list=FLjiAL2zACRZYmcAeatCDJOg&index=60 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfmB-8onoMo&list=FLjiAL2zACRZYmcAeatCDJOg&index=30 The first one is extremely NSFW and vulgar (in fact, I'd actually recommend you not watch it) but knowing the real story behind it, it's milder than I would probably have been. My brother served with that guy in the Marines and was there when he recorded this video... he has some other pretty funny songs too (mostly military related). On a more serious note, as a country bumpkin I always loved this one (and Kenny Chesney's version too): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGulN5J8e64 I have lots more...

I'll probably get flamed, but what is the reason that they should be (for either) beyond cosmetic's sake? My main never has been, nor has my reserve. No problems on a recent cutaway... Asking because I don't know... please be gentle.

Not defending Delta/SkyWest, but having been based in SLC several years back (not for either of them, thankfully), it was my observation that they had by far the worst ATC that I've ever dealt with in the U.S. (excluding center- they are ok). No offense to anyone here who might be a controller there. I know it's a tough job and you're not exactly getting the cream of the crop these days, but SLC just stands out to me more than any other. Someone needs to send some NYC-area controllers out there to whip them into shape.

I won't pass judgement on whether that was a crazy or stupid decision but I wanted to echo what someone said earlier in the thread: DO NOT PAY UP FRONT for any flight training. That would be a seriously stupid decision. I'm guessing it's too late, however. In any case, best of luck in your new pursuit! Most of the time, being a pilot is an alright job.

Good grief. I'm not arguing about anything. I was simply trying to point out that it's only "not necessary" because in most (all?) cases, it's not possible to fly a load of jumpers and remain within Class G (uncontrolled) airspace the entire time.

Yes, there are- in mountainous terrain. Completely irrelevant. The point is, I can't think of any dropzone in the U.S. that conducts normal operations entirely within Class G airspace because Class G airspace is almost all low-altitude (speaking in AGL). Ergo, dropzones operate in controlled airspace (mostly Class E) and have an obligation to be in contact with ATC.

There are very, very few jumps that take place entirely in Class G airspace. Over the majority of the U.S., Class G only goes from the surface to 700 or 1200 AGL. Above that, if it's not any other class, it is Class E which is controlled.

Common misconception. Over most of the U.S., Class E starts at 1200 AGL which is also the floor of Victor airways. Over some airports, it starts at the surface, over others it starts at 700 AGL. The reason for this is to accommodate instrument approaches. IF it doesn't start at some other altitude then yes, it starts at 14,500 MSL. The only place you'll see it start at 14,500 MSL (or some other higher altitude) is in mountainous terrain. If you look at a sectional for Colorado for example, you'll find that where the floor of Class E airspace starts at 14,500 MSL, it is roughly 1200' above the highest terrain in the area. In the mountains, there is no need to have Class E down every valley, so it starts over the top. Confusing enough? -ESF ATP/CFI