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Cari & I had lunch yesterday and the subject of this abortion thread came up. She is very religious and goes to church a couple of times a week. We are both of the mindset that we are personally opposed to abortion, but who are we to judge what others have to, want to, or need to do. Your question is the perfect example and we discussed that exact scenario (except it was any woman who had been raped). To make some law that she could not have an abortion would make her have to face that incident in a very different way than most rape victims. A law like that would be criminal in itself. We are both opposed to rescinding or modifying RvW in any way.

Yep, which is true of everything else as you mentioned. For example, interracial marriage. It's not that the worst bigots of the 60's discovered that race wasn't all that important, and thus dropped their condemnation of interracial marriage. It's that most of them are dead. And their equivalent generation today grew up seeing interracial marriage in newspapers, on TV, in magazines and in movies. So even if they have the same basic level of intolerance, if someone bring up interracial marriage their first response is "but that's always been here; it's part of my cherished childhood memories. So that's fine. It's not like they are nonbinary freaks who don't know their own sex!" And in 30 years, those people will be dead, and we will have a new generation who grew up with genderfluid people and just don't care about it. I am sure they will have a new thing to refuse to tolerate - but at least they've been raised to be more tolerant to a few more things. And thus the cause of civil rights lurches and stumbles forward, driven more by human mortality than enlightenment.

Here, I will tie it together for you, with a quote from Shannon Watts: "So, in summary, if a child decides to take an AR-15 to an abortion clinic to protect women from protesters in a state that has open carry and Stand Your Ground laws, they are allowed to open fire on anyone who has a skateboard. Am I doing this right?"

Do they still need you? Do they still feed you?

A perfect example of what a Christian should mean. This is the Wipikida List of honors and awards received by Jimmy Carter only about 150 items long. AFAIK no other person has received 1/4 as many awards The Iranian revolution and the oil crisis were obviously not his fault. When the hostage rescue mission failed he never threw the armed forces under the bus. Imagine what trump would have done in a similar situation.

Hi Jim, Let me add one more location: The ball end on the ripcord cable when it is enclosed inside a soft reserve ripcord pud. Sorta difficult to inspect, no? Jerry Baumchen

Hi folks, IMO well deserved: Ahmaud Arbery’s killers get life in prison; no parole for father, son - oregonlive.com Jerry Baumchen

The free market doesn't exist for Reuters? Interesting how a Manhattan Institute publication is upset a company is exercising their free market rights and principles. More and more I am starting to believe that the only "right" right-wing Americans are interested in is the "right" not to have to face any consequences.

The idea that I'm floating idyllically on thousands and thousands of pissed away Christmas presents is making me a tad weepy.

“You mourn because you experienced the privilege of being loved.” ~Amy Dickinson

You were the one who posted the secular view, and you’re probably the person who has studied the pro-life view in the most detail. Kallend’s question is valid. It could be that your answer is along the lines of “to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs,” but whatever the answer is, it is a valid question. Wendy P.

So how about the 13 year old rape victim? What about her rights? Why is her body to be held hostage and her life deranged even further on account of the actions of a criminal and the views of people like Coreece??

How much time do you have?

Hi Ken, For those who do not remember or never knew: Ted Sorensen - Wikipedia Jerry Baumchen PS) Sorensen was President Kennedy's special counsel, adviser, and primary speechwriter, the role for which he is remembered best.

"I've been told that the pilot didn't use the thing. You know, the thing that helps with the engine. Very powerful, that thing. I would have used the thing. I'm just saying. If I had been there the mission would have succeeded. I know more than the generals about these kind of missions. But he didn't know, and, you see what happened. I heard he's a democrat."

Hi Wendy, Re: And what is your point about this? Quite often I do a cut-n-paste out of a recent post. Then I do a Slant & Bold to the quote. I'm sure there are some on here who think that this is stupid. IMO this lets people know exactly what I am talking about in any reply. As for this line from your post; I have not a clue as to what you are referring to. Jerry Baumchen PS) About 40 yrs ago, I took a class in Technical Writing. The one thing that stood out for me was: If you write something and the reader does not understand what you wrote, then you wasted your time.

How often does THAT happen? :) You do realize that most of the world influences social/political policy based on their religious beliefs. And, given that about 85% of the world has some form of faith; I can't help but wonder if they are concerned about people with a lack of faith influencing social/political policy.

Every time he posts a new topic I hope that this will be the one that gets no replies. I've been disappointed every single time. While he sits back and laughs at those thinking that they are clever in calling out the bullshit and plots the next stage of his self amusement.

That pic. of 8-point stitch on that Lateral to Main Lift junction you using for an example, is not going to break on any deep No slider deployments, it stronger than the forces your body can ever take . No matter what way you do it . Your Lateral webbing coming out to connect to Main Lift to leg-strap area . If doing a BASE container just try to keep that open bottom area of Tray and the Lateral webbing coming out to minimum . That inside corner area that I pointing to . Is covered by a Lateral Cover, Also the 'splayed' Lat. webbing in the one Pic. in previous Post , It also helps get rid of the Potential Bridal Snag of open area . The Lat. cover that is in PIc. is really simple, and just cut the bottom angle of it, to meet down there to the Container Tray corner area . - -

Thanks everyone for the history! My father is Ron Patterson, SCR 373 and watching him jump was one of my fondest childhood memories. I ran across some old pics that i thought someone may enjoy.

Gregg...You must be getting "oldtimers"...I was a member of the 1971 Valley Mills Z-Hills Turkey Meet winning team...Fritz

John, You keep spelling my name wrong and I'll spell yours MEECHNER! Gregg

John, Did you leave out Anita Howe (team Mom)? Correction on V-Mills Texans Z-Hills '71 Fritz Jackson Jesse Hall Gary Lewis Phil Mayfield David Arrington Ken Gillespie Ric Miller Curran Phillips Ron Cox Gregg Hackett Wild wild wild time there! Gregg Hackett SCR-589

I've seen threads about Spaceland, Texas and the big-way RW that went on and still goes on there. I have not seen the history behind it. I want to tell some of that history and hopefully some of my friends will add to it. Relative Work started maturing in a town called Valley Mills, Texas, just north of Waco. It was there that an Aggie jumping buddy of mine, Gary Lewis, brought his Twin Beech, giving the drop zone new life. Can you imagine a college boy buying a Twin Beech to operate at a college club? Anyway, Valley Mills was in the center of the state, so jumpers from Waco, Austin, San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston could get there on weekends. We developed such a family unity that it still lasts today. We started trying for 8 Man stars at A&M in Millican. One weekend on 7-05-70 Gary flew “The White Whale” to Coleman, Texas. The first 8 man star was made there by Ron Patterson, SCR 373, Phil Mayfield, Curran Phillips, Ric Schwandt, Dennis Clark, Chris Ranson, Jim Sutton, Jack Langford, and Jesse Hall in that SCR order. By one year later Texas had 44 SCR numbers in it, almost exclusively in Valley Mills. It wasn't long before a Twin Beech wasn't enough, so Gary bought a DC3. By that time people were coming from all over Texas, Kansas, Louisiana, and Tennessee to join in on the bigger stars and the good times we were having. It was at Valley Mills that the first Texas 8 man team started. They went to Z-Hills as the V-Mills team and won first place. The team was David Arrington, Ron Cox, Jack Peck, Phil Mayfield, “Dirty Fred” Grant, Charles Waters, Gary Lewis, and Greg Hackett. The team evolved through the years to become known as the Texas Team and later Kalidoscope. Valley Mills only lasted a couple of years, but large star skydiving made its entrance to Texas. We made it to at least 16 man stars. After a couple of fatalities, the pressure was on to shut it down. Looking back I would say it wasn't the most safety oriented dropzone. It got so commonplace for the Beech to have to unload early that on the way up one day, someone mentioned the words “get out” in an innocent conversation, and everybody unassed the plane. After a time Gary moved the DC3 to Cleveland where he introduced me to the airport manager. I ran the dropzone, and Gary operated the plane. I'd have to make the same safety comment about Cleveland. We were just lucky. We made a 22 man star there, along with a lot of 10 man speed stars, guns, parties, 16 mans, mushrooms, and other large attempts. In 1974 the 10 man speed star team that went to the Telequah Nationals was Jesse Hall, Phil Smith, Phil Mayfield, Greg Hackett, Ken Gillespie, David Arrington, Dave Boatman, Fritz Jackson, Vaughn Ruple, and myself. Dave Boatman had previously brought a Twin Otter to Dickinson and Cleveland for larger attempts. So, about this time, he buys a Twin Beech, and after Eric Wizowatty shot out the runway lights, we got asked to leave Cleveland. I always wondered about the timing, but I got to be a regular jumper again. That was good because I was sure that sooner or later someone would be getting themselves killed at Cleveland. We were on borrowed time. So a new name, Boatman Hall Ltd, moved the jumping to Spaceland Airport. That place is now a residential neighborhood. Sad. Now Spaceland DZ is in Rosharon and is a big business. Anyway, Dave would teach you something about life if you pulled too low. We did sneak off and have our “safety meetings”, though. In 1976 as 10 man speed star went “professional”, a new competition started, 8 man sequential. On this team were Ron Cox, Phil Smith, Phil Mayfield, Greg Hackett, Ken Gillespie, Wayne Mosley, John Shannon, Bobby Brown, and myself. We had 9 on it. John Shannon could take anyone’s slot if necessary. By that time Austin, Dallas, and Houston all had Twin Beeches. The team would split weekends in those places because we had team members from all of them. We would all camp out or pile into someone’s apartment on Saturday nights. I remember “Plug-In” and “Pigmy-Mau-Mau-California Style” as popular pastimes. We went to the state of Washington to the Sequential Sweepstakes and got second place in the nation. First place won by 1 point and went on to Australia to win the world. Over the years the team saw other people on it, Fritz Jackson, Dave Bottrell, Ed Wescott, Robert Armstrong, Dane Nielson, Johnny Shannon, Dwayne Bruette, Bobby Brown, Bill Minyard, and I’m sure I’ve missed some. Some other names worthy of notation, that made “As The Prop Turns” stories are Harvey Stewart, Dotty Stewart, Sandy Roberts Mincher, Cathy Bennett, Renny, Patsy Boatman, Jonathan Phillips, Lee Umpscheid, Sean Ferguson, Sarah, Robert Bottrell, Sandy Lewis, Kenny Patterson, Rita Patterson, Jim McIntyre, Bob “Spiderman” Vincent, Mike Vincent, Lee McMillan, Joe Stone, Tim Geohagen, Alvin Heathcock, Jack Moore, Cathy Minster, Lynn Mayfield, Mike Mullins, Gary Hall, Bobby Hilder, Howell Ponton, Ric Miller, Robert Bottrell, Elaine Lewis, Cathy Cox, Ron Lugenbill, Tom Bullion, Mike Babbineaux, Jim Baker, Jim Captain, Matt Farmer, Kent Farney, Paul Middleton, Cully Lyons, Eddie Flores, Mike Flores, Bruce Cunningham, Chris Ranson, Craig Ranson, Greg Nugent, Bob Pope, Steve Hazen, Clark Thurman, Mike Mullins, Marrilee Lafferty, Bobby Lafferty, Don Henderson, Bill Newell, Vernon Melancon, Rick Hankel, Rick Schwandt, Martin Bennett, Don Stewart, Carl Maroon, Mark Conrad, Rick Spigarilli, Greg Giles, Joe Svec, and I’m sure I’ve missed some more. John Mincher SCR 422