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And yet I just gave an example of a GM DZ that had an issue with illegal MX in the past resulting in a crash and recent action against the DZO and now a fatality at that DZ in part due to MX and they are still a GM. These are all facts. GM DZ having a crash due to illegal MX - Still a GM Action taken against the DZO - Still a GM An additional crash, with fatalities, reported to be bad MX - Still a GM DZ. Now maybe the USPA has not acted yet.... But they didn’t take action from the last crash due to bad MX, so I have little faith they will take action now... The check cleared. Maybe the USPA will finally act.... So maybe a preventable fatality is the line that removes a DZ from the program? That would be nice to know.... ‘Dangerous activities are allowed until someone dies.’ At that point it isn’t more than just the check clearing and an empty promise. Anyone that thinks the DZ being a USPA GM means anything is fooling themselves. The GM program is there to force individual membership and to serve as an advertisement tool. Funny how Chuck has made that’s EXACT claim on this forum before. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And of course valuations used for investors that are false will put you in jail since that's flat our fraud. BUT I can assure all readers that there's no way Trump would've made it past through primaries without this being exposed, he's way too high of a profile anyway for investors to not know exactly how much his property is worth, thus why he had such trouble getting loans.

Good summary of the specific denial points from Science Alert. I've previously talked about the three basic kinds of denial - it's not warming, it's warming but it's natural, it's warming from our actions but all the changes will be good. Science Alert breaks it down further into the basic reasons deniers present: 1) Science denial It's not warming! NASA made a mistake once! It's natural! Climate models are unreliable and can't be trusted at all! CO2 is a tiny percentage of the atmosphere; it can't do anything! 2) Economic denial It's impossible to do anything! It's too expensive to do anything! Solar is subsidized and oil isn't! 3) Humanitarian denial Warming is only good for people! CO2 is a fertilizer that will feed the world! 4) Political denial No one wants to fix climate change! Other countries are doing less so we should not try! There is another problem, so we can't work on carbon reduction! 5) Crisis denial It's not a big deal! There are still polar bears! There's no rush! The crisis is a big fake media thing! https://www.sciencealert.com/the-five-corrupt-pillars-of-climate-change-denial

The well regulated militia part which seems to have been forgotten?

of course you think that because it FEELS right to you.

Correct, just like a hammer to the nuts is a cheap reliable way to perform a vasectomy.

The Scalia definition. Brent was simply being, literally, clever by half. Scalia's reasoning in Heller, where to make the thing come around right he took a Veg-o-Matic to the text, effectively gave us Second Amendments 2A and 2B. I just think it's plain silly to start using only half the text to make an argument.

But at least he’s funnier than some other posters. And he has moderated some views. You can’t agree on everything. Wendy P.

Seriously? That's the best you've got? That wasn't even an acceptable comeback at grade school. But it does show that discussing the issue with you is utterly pointless. Your belief is based in a faith that you WANT to believe because you have an agenda. Not in any actual, factual, reported discernible facts.

Pot. Meet kettle.

Hi Mark, I don't about you, but I'm really curious about what is/is not in his tax returns. Jerry Baumchen

Never ceases to AMAZE me to hear this type of insanity. The BOD, which has a fiduciary responsibility of protecting and prudent investment of funds that dues paying members provide, chooses to go against Ottley's wishes and provide funding to a non existing museum that has not accomplished anything in 48 yrs. No oversight. No accountability. The ISMHOF continues make promises that it has little to no chance of EVER accomplishing. And yet, in spite of all the protests from myself and all the others that had NO SAY in this decision, we are suppose to allow this to continue because THEY MADE A PROMISE? Are you kidding? In what world does that work? Besides the government. This is tragic. Anybody that can make a statement like that needs to find some intestinal fortitude. There is no reason that the members shude be on the hook for a commitment these few have done.

Did I say fired? Just had a look and nope, can't see it. But is reassigned the same as being punished? Yep, in this case it is, as evidence by the man himself, Trump. His tweets explicitly show the reassignment was in response to Vindman's testimony, while also calling him out as a leaker, as insubordinate, and as having 'horrendous' performance reports as well as problems with judgement. All of which, as far as I am aware, are lies. All in all I am quite comfortable repeating that his treatment of the Vindmans should be remembered anytime Trump claims to be pro military or pro veteran. Vindictive dickhead.

Don Jong Trump like. Maybe Zimbabwe should send observers to supervise your elections

How long is the snivel? Much altitude lost?

Not sure what that 1st paragraph means or is referring to. As far as the second, let me ask a question. IF this was your money that you worked to aquire and you discovered the folks you were giving it to were spending it with no oversight or responsibility for what happens to it. Wude you continue giving more money to them?

So I will end with this. The USPA Board promised to supply some funding for this effort, along with many many other individuals and organizations. It is that simple, we are going to do it. We will keep our promise. Paul Gholson USPA Southern Regional Director And that rite there says it all. They will do whatever they want in spite of what the membership, logic and simple research says is a bad idea. We all make mistakes. What may have seemed like the rite thing to do when McCormick pitched this in the summer of 2018, is now obviously shown to be, at best, an impossibly flawed plan. Instead of shoving this down the members throats and saying "too bad", the responsible thing wude be to re-evaluate this decision and change it. Until the ISMHOF can produce a workable plan for what they are saying, the USPA shude stop all further funding. Period

The museum so far has raised a significant amount of money. They have not broken ground and may never break ground. What due diligence did USPA do before sending checks? What happens to the money if they never build the museum? A tunnel manufacturer (not iFly) is going to build 2 tunnels in Orlando where there already is 2 tunnels; Has this manufacturer released a press statement with their intention to build 2 tunnels? Have they built a horizontal tunnel before? What size tunnels are they planning on building? Which tunnel manufacturer has committed to these 2 new tunnels? Has USPA reached out to this tunnel manufacturer for any information on their schedule or experience in the industry? Derek V

i am not sure what i expected when i asked the questions you didn't respond to, but i am pretty sure it wasn't a bunch of idiotic questions. i say idiotic, not as an insult, but as descriptive because they all are answered if you read my original questions. now, one more time for real this time and please, if you don't have anything to add that is helpful, stay the hell out of this one. i was wondering a similar thought, how do they know what we want to do with our funds? is there an open process or do we have to come to a meeting? if that is the case, it seems a bit exclusionary. i don't recall ever having been given the option in 22 years of choosing anything the bod votes on. shouldn't there be some sort of ballot or letter of issues circulated so that we can make a choice, rather than reading about it? if there is one, why have i never received it? is there a place where we can go look at minutes of meetings and see a list of issues?

Again Thanks for simply doing what you SAID you wude do. I don't believe anyone was holding a gun to your head to make you say you wude refund any members dues that you and the other's committed to this. Let me know if I have that wrong. And yer rite, I am a little Giddy that it actually happened. I was unaware that the agenda is listed before the meetings. Thanks for letting me and the others know. I will be keeping an eye on that. As I have mentioned many times already, I did call and I did text. I followed just what yer suggesting and got just 3 responses. You consistently keep trying to say its the members responsibility to stop their lives and attend a meeting. I fail to see how I will get any better response by traveling somewhere when I can't even get a return phone call. All this is aside of the main point. And that is that the BOD chose to support an organization that hasn't done shit in half a century. You CHOSE to get elected. That was your call. Just as its my call to investigate this the way I have. I believe we both want the museum done. You choose to support an organization with a lousy track record and I point out the shortcomings and offer an alternative. You keep saying you have seen the plans for the museum. Well, be a good member of the Board and inform your constituents how their funds are being used and tell or show us what those are. This is the 2nd time I have asked AFTER you said you saw them.

Hi phantom, I was in Berlin 26 Jun 63 and was in the crowd listening to JFK's, 'I am a Berliner' speech. In my mind, I can still see the red banners hanging from the Brandenburg Gate. Somewhere, I have a photo taken of me standing next Checkpoint Charlie. I knew the wall would come down one day; I just never thought it would in my lifetime. What a great victory for freedom, Jerry Baumchen

As the impeachment process is finally over, everybody can decide for himself what a ***** job the American Senate has done. (***** insert any adjective according to your personal belief) Now let‘s try and find the bright side of the current situation. Technically, we can claim a big increase of democratic nations in the world. Every banana republic can meet the standards set by the (self proclaimed) greatest democratic nation in the world. And on the historical side, especially as german, one always has the question how could our grandparents let the events between ‘33 and ‘45 happen. Now we can witness first hand what one guy and a power grabbing party can do to a nation. Caution: The above text may include traces of sarcasm and truth and may be an alternative fact for good measure.

There's got to be a way to figure out how much server power was used to generate this thread. Greta would not be happy at all.

Is there somewhere we could look at this information? Where does it come from?

If they were they didn't know how to route chest straps! The 5 way shot has heads edited onto bodies. The album jacket list gear as being supplied by "The Altitude Shop". It is possible that there was a jumper in the band, but extremely unlike 5 of them.

reddit has a skydiving forum and i found two users from here over there. they post a lot more and it is also interesting but hasn't got the same "feel" as dz.com, but i have been here since '02 regardless of what the site says, so that is probably it, although the change in design is terrible compared to the old one in my opinion.

It is not my intention to complain, only ask if their are any other skydiving forums. I enjoy Dropzone but I find a lot of the newbie questions I research are not very current here. I have DZ bookmarked and visit every day and this will not change. I am just looking for a busier alternative. With respect...........

I think most of the activity has moved off to individual DZ Facebook groups and the like. Or maybe twitter, instagram, or who knows what. It’s unfortunate, because frankly this is a great resource. Or else it’s moved back to individual conversation at the DZ, which is bot good and bad. There’s an amazing amount of bs that can be shared here, but cross-pollination of actual knowledge is very valuable. Consider the exit order question Wendy P.

Fully agree with this 100%! You want to impress your instructor? Stay humble, ask questions and most of all, be safe. Remember THEIR names are in YOUR log book, and what ever YOU DO. Reflects on them.

Stay teachable. By that, I mean don't ever forget that you know very little and have a lot to learn. Don't become the '100 jump wonder' who knows everything. Continue to learn. I've heard it said that some skydivers have 500 jumps, others have done the same jump 500 times. Keep showing up. Even if the weather is 'iffy', show up anyway. There's a lot that can be learned on weather holds, just sitting around and talking. Listen more than you talk. At this point, there's very little you can do to impress them with your skills. But you can show a good attitude.

My impression is that USPA is part of the problem. When the NTSB issued their report in 2008; "The Safety Board's review of parachute operations accidents since 1980 identified the following recurring safety issues: Inadequate aircraft inspection and maintenance; Pilot performance deficiencies in basic airmanship tasks, such as preflight inspections, weight and balance calculations, and emergency and recovery procedures; and Inadequate FAA oversight and direct surveillance of parachute operations." the USPA responded with requiring DZO's to fill out a form each year with their GM renewal with information about their aircraft, pilots and maintenance. So the USPA is giving the appearance of checking on jumpship maintenance, when they actually are not. Chuck, you and I agree. Derek V

Congrats, you now agree the GM program is meaningless.... Took long enough! Then maybe the USPA (and you) should not act like a GMDZ is better than a non-GM DZ? A GM takes a pledge to follow the FAR's so it is not a gigantic assumption that a DZ that has been proven not to follow the FAR's should not be a GMDZ. It is my time to waste. I don't consider it a waste to help people open their eyes to the scam that is being played on them. Fact is the vast majority of jumpers know exactly nothing about FAR's or can tell if an aircraft is legal. They rely on the DZO to be honest and the lie that a GM follows the FAR's. Simply put, the USPA GM program does not give you any guaranty of a safe DZ. You want proof? A DZ that had a crash due to bad MX was still a GM. That same DZ had the DZO censured by the USPA but was still a GM. That DZ has now had a FATAL crash, again due to bad MX.... And as it stands currently is STILL a GM DZ. I feel for all those that lost... But to pretend the GM program is anything more than a scam to force individual membership and provide fake legitimacy to the DZ is simply shown to not be true. The USPA does not even remove the GM of a DZ that has been shown to not follow the FAR's. These are facts. You can try to play me all you want, but you can't refute them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Don't you get it, the plane ride is PART of the event. And the pledge says you will follow FAR's! If they are not following FAR's they should not be a GM. Here is the GM application. You will notice it starts off talking about the advertising and then later mentions the pledge (which we all know means nothing if a DZ that had a crash due to MX is still a GM). https://uspa.org/Portals/0/files/Form_GMInitialApp.pdf Point #1 of the pledge: "Comply with the USPA Basic Safety Requirements (BSRs), which include compliance with the Federal Aviation Regulations relevant to skydiving operations, including aircraft operations." COMPLIANCE WITH FAR's!!!!! Point #3: "Ensure that all aircraft utilized for the purpose of parachute operations comply with commercial maintenance requirements described in U.S. Federal Aviation Regulations Part 91.409(a) through (f) as applicable." COMPLY WITH FAR MX REQUIREMENTS!!!! So if they are not doing that, they are not abiding by the "pledge" yet somehow still are a GM???? But lets continue with the "pledge": But lest look at the GM program manual!!!! https://uspa.org/Portals/0/files/Man_GM.pdf Look at 1-3 "benefits" the first two are: "Use of the authorized phrase, as indicated on the USPA Group Membership Certificate" "Free advertising" So there is little doubt that it really is about marketing and not actual safety. Yet, here we have DZ's breaking at least TWO of the seven "pledges" and still are GM DZ's...... It is about money, not safety. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334