Excess Brake Line

[Auryn 0]

I have seen the Sunpath bulletin on excess brake line stowage on velcroless toggles (route the excess through the lower stow point on the riser and push the toggle through it to hold it there) and I am wondering if this is the best way to do it ? I don't see any problems with it, but if the container has sufficient riser coverage there should be no issues with leaving it loose... I was wondering if I am wrong in thinking that.

Blue Ones !

Bryan
D-27808
Blue Ones !

Bryan

[Hooknswoop 19]

RWS also has a suggested brake line stowage page on their web page.

Not stowing the excess, means it is free to snag on anything it comes across. Also, if the riser cover does come open, it is less likely to cause a problem if your excess brake line is stowed. Stowing keeps it under control until released.

Derek

[riggerrob 643]

Try asking Carl Nelson if loose brake line can create problems.

[FrancoR 0]

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Not stowing the excess, means it is free to snag on anything it comes across.

Like the Camera you probably have on your head Auryn.

If it does not cost anything you are the product.

[craddock 0]

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but if the container has sufficient riser coverage there should be no issues with leaving it loose

I think this depends on the size of the canopy as that will effect how much line is below the brake setting. Large canopies could leave enough line to catch on something? If this bothers you than try to avoid it. There are a few things to keep in mind if you decide to go this route.
Smaller canopies pose less of a problem. I have not stowed my excess line in several years. You do need to be aware when you unstow your brakes that you do not reach through the excess line. ( hard to do on smaller canopies)
Josh

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[jerry81 10]

I started paying more attention to excess brake line after reading about this incident. On the Wings I used to jump, I stowed it like Sunpath recommends. My new Voodoo has a keeper for it on the other side of the riser that shouldn't be too hard to sew on.
As for canopy size- I'd say I jump a medium canopy (135) and I've caught myself once with two fingers already through the excess loop after jumping another guy's packjob. (One more reason why I always pack my own)

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[alan 1]

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Try asking Carl Nelson if loose brake line can create problems.

He didn't have a clue and suggested asking someone at the garage or Midas, etc..

alan

[Auryn 0]

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Not stowing the excess, means it is free to snag on anything it comes across.

Like the Camera you probably have on your head Auryn.

Im asking this question about the rigs I pack for other people. My rig has velcro toggle keepers, and all the brake line is stowed underneath the toggle.

Blue Ones !

[FrogNog 1]

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Not stowing the excess, means it is free to snag on anything it comes across.

Like the Camera you probably have on your head Auryn.

Im asking this question about the rigs I pack for other people. My rig has velcro toggle keepers, and all the brake line is stowed underneath the toggle.

Blue Ones !

Hypothetically speaking, of course, if I were to pack rigs for other people, and I wasn't presented with a straightforward method of stowing the extra brake line, I would ask them what they like. Then I would remember what each person / rig likes. But of course I don't pack other peoples' mains because I'm not a rigger.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[sundevil777 102]

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My rig has velcro toggle keepers, and all the brake line is stowed underneath the toggle.

If you mean that you gather the excess together and place it down against the velcro with the toggle to keep it there, I hope you don't have microline-bad wear will result.

Maybe that isn't what you meant.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[hookitt 1]

It's what she meant but not how it sounded.

The Flexon had a split piece of velcro to place the lines under and inside of. Close it up, then Place the toggle on top of it.

Look at the attached picture. It's not very good but you'll get the idea.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[billbooth 10]

Unstowed, or improperly stowed steering lines (mostly brought about by the "velcro-less" toggle craze) have been implicated in 3 fatalities in the last six months. As a major cause of death, they rank only behind low hook turns. This sort of thing happens every time we change technology. I'm not sure this change was worth it. What have we gained?

[quade 4]

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This sort of thing happens every time we change technology.

Agreed.

Everytime a new piece is added to a system, it may affect the system in ways not imagined by the inventor.

What is especially dangerous in my mind, is when a follow-on inventor then tries to improve on the piece (or more likely is just trying to get around the patent) but doesn't take into consideration why the original inventor decided his way was best to begin with. For instance, small 3 rings as opposed to large 3 rings.

I'm always wary of "new" things when it comes to life critical devices.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[cssriggers 0]

Hey bro -

Our advice to packers:

If you're packing for people with velcroless toggles who have no way to stow excess (i.e. no keepers on the back of the rear riser):
Try to stow excess in the bottom toggle keeper.

If this isn't possible, stow the brakes so that the brake line leading to the canopy is inboard, and the excess brakeline is outboard. This will result in the excess being at the bottom of the riser troughs (where you can more securely place it) when you stow them prior to closing the rig.

AMF

Alpha Mike Foxtrot,
JHL

[alan 1]

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Unstowed, or improperly stowed steering lines (mostly brought about by the "velcro-less" toggle craze) have been implicated in 3 fatalities in the last six months.

Thanks for the information, I'll pass it along to Carl Nelson, he thought a loose brake line had something
to do with a car. I'm still puzzled as to why riggerrob would suggest I ask my neighbor about this.

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As a major cause of death, they rank only behind low hook turns.

Just during the last 6 months, or since someone started keeping statistics? That doesn't seem right to me.

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This sort of thing happens every time we change technology.

To be sure, the examples are endless. One that jumps to mind is the throwout pc. Used to be mounted on a bellyband and was implicated in quite a few fatalities over a number of years. We learned and improved the system. Now we seem to be deluged with bent pins on new tandem rigs. That too will lead to something better.

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I'm not sure this change was worth it. What have we gained?

I'm not sure either. I know people didn't always stow the excess steering line even before the velcro-less craze. I think it has more to do with the jumpers, their attitudes, knowledge, and training. What have we gained? Time will tell. Technology will continue to change, sometimes the change is for the better, sometimes for the worse. Sometimes the mistakes lead to something that is much better. Are the parachute sytems we use today better or worse than the ones we had 10 years ago? What have we gained? Has the change been worth it? I believe what we have now is more reliable. I'm not sure that means it is safer. We do seem to have fewer fatalities per jump now than we did 10 and 20 years ago. Is that in spite of or because of technology? What about the human factor?

Carl and I will have a beer and discuss these questions at length.

alan

[Auryn 0]

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My rig has velcro toggle keepers, and all the brake line is stowed underneath the toggle.

If you mean that you gather the excess together and place it down against the velcro with the toggle to keep it there, I hope you don't have microline-bad wear will result.

Maybe that isn't what you meant.

My toggles are set up so that the loop side of the velcro is sewn to the side of the riser, 1/2 on each side. you loop the excess line directly against the riser and then cover it with the loop side, the put the toggle down to seal it shut.. line doesnt come into contact with the velcro at all.

Blue Ones !

Bryan

[Auryn 0]

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Not stowing the excess, means it is free to snag on anything it comes across.

Like the Camera you probably have on your head Auryn.

Im asking this question about the rigs I pack for other people. My rig has velcro toggle keepers, and all the brake line is stowed underneath the toggle.

Blue Ones !

Hypothetically speaking, of course, if I were to pack rigs for other people, and I wasn't presented with a straightforward method of stowing the extra brake line, I would ask them what they like. Then I would remember what each person / rig likes. But of course I don't pack other peoples' mains because I'm not a rigger.

I do ask people the way they want it done.. I actually started this thread out of concern for someone I pack for. They wanted the brake lines looped up the through the top of the riser and then back around the top of the toggle and then put in the toggle keeper. This way made me very uncomfortable, and I was looking for a better way to show him how to do it.

Blue Ones !

[jacco 0]

I couldn't find the article on the Sunpath website, could you post a link?

There is an article about excess steering line on PD's website. One excerpt from the introduction: "leaving the excess steering line unstowed may cause a control system malfunction". I'm not sure if this is the same article as Sunpath's (see first question
http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/ControlSysMalf.PDF

Jacco.

[Auryn 0]

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I couldn't find the article on the Sunpath website, could you post a link?

There is an article about excess steering line on PD's website. One excerpt from the introduction: "leaving the excess steering line unstowed may cause a control system malfunction". I'm not sure if this is the same article as Sunpath's (see first question
It's not, but the method they recommend is really simple..

take the excess and loop it downward to the bottom toggle stow (velcroless have two) stow the bottom part of the toggle through it to lock it down.

Bryan

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/ControlSysMalf.PDF

Jacco.

[sundevil777 102]

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I couldn't find the article on the Sunpath website, could you post a link?

You'll find the link in the thread-link below. I still say that Sunpath's reccommendations suck, you can read more at the link.

I e-mailed Sunpath to draw their attention to what I think are the problems, they haven't replied yet.


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=547630;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am